Teresa Griffin on sun 21 may 06
I am looking for copper phosphate to use in a turquoise stain. AND
I can not find potassium dichromate either to use in a pink stain.
I have looked high and low. All over the DFW area and the net.
I found the recipes in the
Clay and Glaze book by James Chappell. under Stains Cone 09-10
Does anybody know where to find them????
Thanks a bunch,
Teresa Griffin
Weatherford, Texas
Steve Slatin on sun 21 may 06
Back when photography was something done with
film, potassium dichromate was available from
materials supply houses. It was used as an
oxidizer in some special circumstances.
The pink it makes is probably a tin-chrome
effect; perhaps you can find a different recipe
that uses a less troublesome source of chrome.
As for copper phosphate, it's a fungicide and
used to be used in agriculture. I can't say that
I've heard of it being used recently, but that
could be a good place to start.
-- Steve Slatin
--- Teresa Griffin wrote:
> I am looking for copper phosphate to use in a
> turquoise stain. AND
>
> I can not find potassium dichromate either to
> use in a pink stain.
>
> I have looked high and low. All over the DFW
> area and the net.
>
> I found the recipes in the
>
> Clay and Glaze book by James Chappell. under
> Stains Cone 09-10
>
> Does anybody know where to find them????
>
> Thanks a bunch,
>
> Teresa Griffin
>
> Weatherford, Texas
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may
> be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Steve Slatin --
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m.mshelomi on sun 21 may 06
For Potassium Dichromate look for photo supply places on Google...
The Copper Phosphate (and even the potassium dichromate) may be found at:
www.advance-scientific.com
pottermim
>I am looking for copper phosphate to use in a turquoise stain. AND
>
> I can not find potassium dichromate either to use in a pink stain.
>
> I have looked high and low. All over the DFW area and the net.
>
Snail Scott on sun 21 may 06
At 10:14 AM 5/21/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>I can not find potassium dichromate...
I get mine from Bryant Laboratories in Berkeley, CA.
-Snail
John Hesselberth on sun 21 may 06
On May 21, 2006, at 1:14 PM, Teresa Griffin wrote:
> I can not find potassium dichromate either to use in a pink stain.
Hi Teresa,
Please be aware that potassium dichromate is a known human
carcinogen. It contains chromium in the +6 valance state. I hope you
really know how to handle this chemical and have appropriate
facilities if you plan to use it. I am originally trained as a
chemical engineer and know how to handle materials of this type. My
studio, however, is not equiped adequately to handle it safely and I
would not use it or recommend it to others.
Chromium oxide, the source of chromium that most potters use, is in
the +3 valence state and is not a carcinogen.
Regards,
John
Earl Brunner on sun 21 may 06
If you haven't already, PLEASE read a Material Safety Data Sheet on this amterial before using (preferably before buying) it will require hazmat disposal.
Snail Scott wrote: At 10:14 AM 5/21/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>I can not find potassium dichromate...
I get mine from Bryant Laboratories in Berkeley, CA.
-Snail
Snail Scott on mon 22 may 06
At 02:45 PM 5/22/2006 -0700, Bob D. wrote:
>Is copper sulfate safe to use?
Pretty safe, compared with many things we use.
It's not especially caustic (though it's what in
the old days was called 'blue vitriol' - just
sounds scary, really). I'd still use rubber gloves,
but they don't have to be fancy ones. It's not a
carcinogen, but still, don't eat it, don't breathe
the dust, and don't get it in your eyes. Just treat
it like a glaze material. (You are treating all
your other glaze materials this way anyway, right?)
If you heat it up, it makes nasty sulfur fumes,
so if you use it this way, wear a proper chemical
respirator while working.
Mainly, it's sold as a plant-killer, to keep roots
out of your sewer pipes, so don't pour it out in
your garden or into any creek or pond. Not good for
wildlife to eat it, either.
It can be neutralized by mixing it with soda ash.
If you do this, it's OK to put it out with your
trash (or just use it in your glazes: it basically
becomes copper carbonate). ;)
-Snail
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 22 may 06
Dear Teresa Griffin=20
<>
There is a Copper Phosphate Trihydrate. CAS No.10031-48-8. Insoluble in =
water. This should be available from a reliable wholesale chemical =
supplier. Try to get "Reagent Grade" which should cost less than =
analytical grade.
<>
You may have difficulty with this one. It man have been put on the =
prohibited list by "Homeland Security". It is a powerful oxidising agent =
and may explode under certain circumstances. Also quite poisonous. The =
other stuff will be as well.
If you must use copper with Phosphorus, substitute for both compounds =
with Bone ash..Calcium Phosphate or another phosphate and Copper =
sulphate .
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Snail Scott on mon 22 may 06
At 05:56 PM 5/21/2006 -0700, Earl B wrote:
>If you haven't already, PLEASE read a Material Safety Data Sheet on this
amterial before using (preferably before buying) it will require hazmat
disposal.
Safety:
I learned the use of this stuff (and others) in an
industrial setting. I do in fact have a full set of
MSDS on hand for just about everything I use, not so
much for my own reference (though it's good to know -
have you ever seen the MSDS on rubber cement?) as to
share with other folks. You are correct in putting
out the general warning, though. I shouldn't have
assumed that because someone was seeking it, that
they necessarily understood this. MSDS can be obtained
from the supplier, from the manufacturer, or (easiest,
since you all presumably have internet access) on-line.
Most major manufacturers have MSDS on their websites
now. Cornell University also has a really excellent
database of MSDS, especially for generic chemical
names; just google Cornell MSDS.
I am scrupulous in using an appropriate respirator,
apron, and long chemical-resistant gloves with these
materials, and working only in well-ventilated areas.
(note: Outdoors is NOT a 'well-ventilated area' if there
is no breeze!) Still, in spite of this, I have developed
some chemical sensitivities. Long-term exposure can do
that, even with precautions. Without precautions, it can
be seriously toxic, in ways that you may not feel at the
time.
Disposal:
If you are affiliated with an institution (as I often
have been), disposal can often be arranged quite
routinely. If not, DON'T dump it down the sink.
Most of these chemicals are used in a water-diluted
form. If so, they can be evaporated back to a dry,
concentrated form. Store it securely after it dries
out, and write what it is on the container. Even if
you don't have hazmat disposal available to you at
the moment, you will have it properly labeled for
when you find a means. Labelling is VERY important!
If you've never used a particular chemical before,
read up on it, and find advice if you can. A recipe
alone is not a tutorial in materials use. Besides,
most of these chemicals are not like paint, i.e.
smear it on and you're done. (Glaze formulation
teaches us that, so keep that mindset!) They have
conditions (the right heat, the right concentration,
the right application) which bring out the best
results, and conditions which will yield just a big
mess. So get the most out of them by doing some
research first.
If you're not sure, wait until you are. No material
is the 'silver bullet' that will make your work
wonderful. To paraphrase Smokey Bear, Only you can
make it wonderful, and you can do it with any material
you have, if you need to. We live in a fortunate
place and time, when clayworkers can own computers
and get studio tips from half a world away. It
sometimes leads us to think, though, that the perfect
fix or the ultimate material is the new one we just
heard about, and if only we had it, our work would
be brilliant. It's a very human impulse to try new
things, and great things do occur that way, but
a lot of experiments go by the wayside in finding
those things, and sometimes bad stuff happens.
If you really think that these particular toxic
chemicals are just what you need, then go for it,
with a well-prepared mind and studio. If you can't
obtain the necessary information and proper studio
conditions, wait until you can. The work will
still be waiting for you when you get there.
-Snail
Bob Davis on mon 22 may 06
Is copper sulfate safe to use?
bob
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Snail Scott=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: Copper Phosphate
At 05:56 PM 5/21/2006 -0700, Earl B wrote:
>If you haven't already, PLEASE read a Material Safety Data Sheet on =
this
amterial before using (preferably before buying) it will require =
hazmat
disposal.
Safety:
I learned the use of this stuff (and others) in an
industrial setting. I do in fact have a full set of
MSDS on hand for just about everything I use, not so
much for my own reference (though it's good to know -
have you ever seen the MSDS on rubber cement?) as to
share with other folks. You are correct in putting
out the general warning, though. I shouldn't have
assumed that because someone was seeking it, that
they necessarily understood this. MSDS can be obtained
from the supplier, from the manufacturer, or (easiest,
since you all presumably have internet access) on-line.
Most major manufacturers have MSDS on their websites
now. Cornell University also has a really excellent
database of MSDS, especially for generic chemical
names; just google Cornell MSDS.
I am scrupulous in using an appropriate respirator,
apron, and long chemical-resistant gloves with these
materials, and working only in well-ventilated areas.
(note: Outdoors is NOT a 'well-ventilated area' if there
is no breeze!) Still, in spite of this, I have developed
some chemical sensitivities. Long-term exposure can do
that, even with precautions. Without precautions, it can
be seriously toxic, in ways that you may not feel at the
time.
Disposal:
If you are affiliated with an institution (as I often
have been), disposal can often be arranged quite
routinely. If not, DON'T dump it down the sink.
Most of these chemicals are used in a water-diluted
form. If so, they can be evaporated back to a dry,
concentrated form. Store it securely after it dries
out, and write what it is on the container. Even if
you don't have hazmat disposal available to you at
the moment, you will have it properly labeled for
when you find a means. Labelling is VERY important!
If you've never used a particular chemical before,
read up on it, and find advice if you can. A recipe
alone is not a tutorial in materials use. Besides,
most of these chemicals are not like paint, i.e.
smear it on and you're done. (Glaze formulation
teaches us that, so keep that mindset!) They have
conditions (the right heat, the right concentration,
the right application) which bring out the best
results, and conditions which will yield just a big
mess. So get the most out of them by doing some
research first.
If you're not sure, wait until you are. No material
is the 'silver bullet' that will make your work
wonderful. To paraphrase Smokey Bear, Only you can
make it wonderful, and you can do it with any material
you have, if you need to. We live in a fortunate
place and time, when clayworkers can own computers
and get studio tips from half a world away. It
sometimes leads us to think, though, that the perfect
fix or the ultimate material is the new one we just
heard about, and if only we had it, our work would
be brilliant. It's a very human impulse to try new
things, and great things do occur that way, but
a lot of experiments go by the wayside in finding
those things, and sometimes bad stuff happens.
If you really think that these particular toxic
chemicals are just what you need, then go for it,
with a well-prepared mind and studio. If you can't
obtain the necessary information and proper studio
conditions, wait until you can. The work will
still be waiting for you when you get there.
-Snail
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to =
clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from =
http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
Bob Davis on tue 23 may 06
Thanks Snail. I have a followup question on how to use this. I've been
experimenting with it and Raku. I've made a saturated solution (about 1/4 c.
copper sulfate in a cup of water) in a spray bottle. I've tried spraying it
on bisque bare stoneware clay and on a white crackle glaze. Then raku the
pot and reduce in a trash can with newspaper. I get nice coppers over the
white crackle, pretty ugly yellow/brown on bare clay. My questions are:
if i spray some onto paper and use that paper in the reduction can, will i
get any flashing or copper color?
if i want to sprinkle some of the dry copper sulfate powder into a sagger
pot with sawdust, how much should i try (1 tsp, 1 tbsp, 1/4 cup?) for a
small sagger and small pot?
does it work better to soak sawdust in the liquid solution, dry, and sagger
fire?
Any tips from other experimenters on this or other chemicals used in raku
and sagger firing would be appreciated.
thanks
bob
>From: Snail Scott
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Copper Phosphate
>Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 22:59:15 -0500
>
>At 02:45 PM 5/22/2006 -0700, Bob D. wrote:
> >Is copper sulfate safe to use?
>
>
>Pretty safe, compared with many things we use.
>
>It's not especially caustic (though it's what in
>the old days was called 'blue vitriol' - just
>sounds scary, really). I'd still use rubber gloves,
>but they don't have to be fancy ones. It's not a
>carcinogen, but still, don't eat it, don't breathe
>the dust, and don't get it in your eyes. Just treat
>it like a glaze material. (You are treating all
>your other glaze materials this way anyway, right?)
>
>If you heat it up, it makes nasty sulfur fumes,
>so if you use it this way, wear a proper chemical
>respirator while working.
>
>Mainly, it's sold as a plant-killer, to keep roots
>out of your sewer pipes, so don't pour it out in
>your garden or into any creek or pond. Not good for
>wildlife to eat it, either.
>
>It can be neutralized by mixing it with soda ash.
>If you do this, it's OK to put it out with your
>trash (or just use it in your glazes: it basically
>becomes copper carbonate). ;)
>
> -Snail
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Snail Scott on wed 24 may 06
At 02:53 PM 5/23/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks Snail. I have a followup question on how to use this...
>Any tips from other experimenters on this or other chemicals used in raku
>and sagger firing would be appreciated...
I haven't used it (cupric sulfate) for such
purposes in a long time, and I didn't use it
much back then. I hope someone else will
come forward on this question. (Anyone?)
-Snail
Barbara Lewis on wed 24 may 06
Just getting in on the tail end of this discussion, but I do saggar firing
after having taken a workshop with James Lawton about 13 years ago. Anyway,
I use copper sulphate (you can get it from a farm supply store -- it kills
algae in ponds) to fume color onto the piece. I mix 2 cups per gallon of
warm water and dampen vermiculite with it. Surround the pot with the
vermiculite. Copper Sulphate is very toxic. Wear gloves and a mask for
working with vapors during mixing and firing. Any more questions, just let
me know. Barbara
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snail Scott"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:09 AM
Subject: Re: Copper Phosphate
> At 02:53 PM 5/23/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>>Thanks Snail. I have a followup question on how to use this...
>>Any tips from other experimenters on this or other chemicals used in raku
>>and sagger firing would be appreciated...
>
>
> I haven't used it (cupric sulfate) for such
> purposes in a long time, and I didn't use it
> much back then. I hope someone else will
> come forward on this question. (Anyone?)
>
> -Snail
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Bonnie Staffel on thu 25 may 06
I have substituted Copper sulphate in my primitive firing processes with
success, from applying a wash as well as adding the crystals to the
sawdust/salt mix in the combustibles. I plan on experimenting further =
with
this material as it is readily available from the hardware store and =
less
expensive than copper carbonate, IMO.
Bonnie Staffel where I am champing at the bit waiting for injured toes =
and a
rotator cuff injury to heal. =20
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
Barbara Lewis on thu 25 may 06
Bonnie: Sorry to hear about your rotator cuff injury. Had to have surgery
on June 3 of last year (nearing my year anniversary). Also had a frozen
shoulder. Even though I had the frozen shoulder and tear it didn't stop me
from potting because almost all of my motions were in front of me about
waist high! Of course recovery from shoulder surgery is slow and painful,
but now a distant memory -- and one I definitely don't want to repeat! Good
luck with your recovery. Barbara
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bonnie Staffel"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: Copper Phosphate
I have substituted Copper sulphate in my primitive firing processes with
success, from applying a wash as well as adding the crystals to the
sawdust/salt mix in the combustibles. I plan on experimenting further with
this material as it is readily available from the hardware store and less
expensive than copper carbonate, IMO.
Bonnie Staffel where I am champing at the bit waiting for injured toes and a
rotator cuff injury to heal.
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Cindy Bracker on fri 26 may 06
Again, my apologies for taking so long to reply to this thread.
Teresa, if you still want potassium dichromate, Bracker's still has
13.5# in stock. Probably something my Dad bought years and years
ago. We actually refer to it as Potassium Bichromate, but I think it
means the same, anyone know for sure?
It's Tang-colored Orange. Mom said "It's nasty stuff, you don't
wanna mess with it", which I think is probably the un-technical
version of what John Hesselberth said.
Cindy
Cindy Bracker Sturm
Bracker's Good Earth Clays, Inc.
888-822-1982
http://www.brackers.com
On May 21, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Teresa Griffin wrote:
> I am looking for copper phosphate to use in a turquoise stain. AND
>
> I can not find potassium dichromate either to use in a pink stain.
>
> I have looked high and low. All over the DFW area and the net.
>
> I found the recipes in the
>
> Clay and Glaze book by James Chappell. under Stains Cone 09-10
>
> Does anybody know where to find them????
>
> Thanks a bunch,
>
> Teresa Griffin
>
> Weatherford, Texas
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
John Hesselberth on fri 26 may 06
On May 26, 2006, at 3:54 PM, Cindy Bracker wrote:
> Mom said "It's nasty stuff, you don't
> wanna mess with it", which I think is probably the un-technical
> version of what John Hesselberth said.
Hi Cindy,
I think I like your Mom's version better. Much clearer.
John
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