mel jacobson on sat 28 jan 06
i have had about 5 hours to talk with nils today
about his ideas and data on his new salt kiln
for linfield college. always a good give and take
honest conversation.
he did the full dip of each ifb in itc 100.
let them dry and then assembled the kiln.
he has fired it about 5 times with medium soda.
he feels it is going to hold up much better
than other experiments.
we both agree that any blemishes or cuts have
to be repaired fast. don't let them expand.
in most cases that is a brush of itc 100.
i am still convinced that doing the full dip of itc
and then a half inch thick veneer of fiber soaked tiles
in itc100, and then a full spray of itc 100 would
make a perfect salt kiln, worthy of a thousand firings.
just my take...and that would be a prediction based
on how the fiber roof and door have held up on our
itc salt kiln at the farm. the only failure has been behind
the itc where it peeled away from the ifb. back attack.
the kiln will still fire hundreds more times before it dies.
it is a dandy kiln. about 55 cubic feet/two nils burners
fired at about 12-16 pounds of propane pressure. fires in 6-7 hours.
of course you can kick a salt kiln in the butt as you are just
getting to temp, then salt. no messin about.
we have no fear of failure when it comes to new concepts
in kilns. we believe we need far more people to test new
ideas...and see what happens. one cannot believe in instant success.
it takes a great deal of work and money.
nils is very happy with my spiral pipe/flue liner stack.
it is a great/tight system.
we have dealt with many issues...fuel saving, tight stacks, smaller
flue size..economy of firing time, long bisque. and of course
`fear of flying`. it is about taking ownership of kilns, glazes and
your own adaptations of glaze and clay body.
in other words, get rid of the fear of failure, make your work your
own, be proud of success and failure. it can be learned.
we talked at length about the many kilns we have built and
experimented with...the dozen bad ideas that led us to new and
firm conclusions that really work.
we both laughed out loud about the several kilns we have
helped people with...`i learned how to build a kiln from wally over
at the junior college...he showed us about 86 sq. inch flue size
and a forty foot stack...with loose brick...lots of gas pressure (8"wc).
and we have fired this kiln 87 times to cone 4, then it stalls. about 14
hours.
never have reached cone 10, but we are going to keep on firing
it this way til it finally works`.
`are you going to change anything?`
`no, hell no, this is a great kiln, just the way we built it.`
hmm, maybe the tradition of kiln building that wally has been
teaching is totally wrong...hmmm, ever think of that?`
then we rebuild the kiln, take out the tall bag wall, add three bricks
into the flue, tighten the stack...turn down the gas pressure to
3 inches wc, and fire the kiln to cone 11 in seven hours. i have done
that myself at least 6 times, and have advised at least 10 clayarters
to do the same thing with very good results.
a kiln is not a truck...when you need more speed...step on the gas pedal.
perhaps you are cooling a kiln with too much gas...but, man is the
fire from the stack pretty at night.
i am intrigued with hanks idea of castable salt kilns. of course
he is on the path of something that will ultimately work very well.
we hear the old story...`it is too expensive`. well, more expensive then
what? make a new kiln every three years? it is all relative.
i prefer to save money on the front end of everything...buy the best
wheel in the world, have the best kiln. you will save thousands of dollars
over a lifetime of craft.
if you fire a bad kiln...it costs far more in fuel than you can imagine.
of course, most only care when it is `their gas bill.` so, it is the
co/ops bill...big deal. or the colleges gas bill...big deal.
no, it is everyone's deal when we waste thousands of btu's of energy.
a bad wasteful kiln is a sin.
mel
there are new traditions in the making.
from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://my.pclink.com/~melpots3
Lee Love on sun 29 jan 06
I ran across this article a few years back. I wonder where Peter
Meanly's research took him?
http://www.kalkspatz.ceramic.de/tb/tb0100/html/Meanly.html
> Yes, I knew I will be caught in, my feelings about that, I have just
> been asked what I think about ITC 100 the answer is not very much. I
> built a kiln in college which I think has K 26 bricks, which are
> something like 60 or 65 % aluminium, which is a good quality
> insulating brick and I applied 3 or 4 coats of ITC to it and after
> about 10 firings I knew that the resist was not working. Mike Casson,
> who is an English Potter visited the college at that time and he uses
> an English product called varnish coat which similarly does not work.
> He had one look at my ITC coating and he said, Pete, this is as bad as
> the varnish coat.
> I do not think very much of ITC. I think that my own resist, that I
> had on my own kiln which is a mixture of siliconcarbonate and
> aluminium, 1 part SiC, 5 parts Al_ 2 0_3 and I think its 2 parts
> molochite and 2 parts china clay is a better resist than the ITC. But
> I am absolutely convinced that the material that I was talking about
> earlier is likely to do much better again.
--
Lee Love
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://seisokuro.blogspot.com/ My Photo Logs
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided
missiles and misguided
men.
--Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 - 1968)
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 30 jan 06
Dear Friends,
An interesting report about Peter Meanly. Has anyone translated the =
German commentary?
When we speak of K23, K26 and K28 in relationship to Insulating =
Firebrick what does that mean ? Can someone confirm my understanding =
that Fire Brick numbers relates to Pyrometric Cone Equivalent (PCE) and =
are based on Seger's Formulations. If this is the case then K28 will =
have an alumina content of about 15 %, not the 60% given by PM and =
deform at about 1630=BA C according to the diagram on p 157 in "Pioneer =
Pottery"
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Michael Wendt on mon 30 jan 06
Ivor,
The cone ratings are the result of rigid testing done per ASTM standards =
and
require specific load bearing minimum values under the specified cone for
continuous use.
For this reason, the alumina contents are enhanced to reach these cone
values.
It also explains why we can use 2300 degree brick in our periodic kilns.
Most of the brick is much colder than 2300 degrees and the load is short
term and very light compared to the standard.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Ivor wrote:
Dear Friends,
An interesting report about Peter Meanly. Has anyone translated the Germa=
n
commentary?
When we speak of K23, K26 and K28 in relationship to Insulating Firebrick
what does that mean ? Can someone confirm my understanding that Fire Bric=
k
numbers relates to Pyrometric Cone Equivalent (PCE) and are based on Sege=
r's
Formulations. If this is the case then K28 will have an alumina content o=
f
about 15 %, not the 60% given by PM and deform at about 1630=BA C accordi=
ng to
the diagram on p 157 in "Pioneer Pottery"
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Paul Herman on mon 30 jan 06
Greetings Ivor,
You ask about the numbers assigned to different grades of insulating =20
firebrick. As I understand it, they refer to the intended working =20
temperature in degrees F, K23 is a brick good up to 2300F, K26 good =20
to 2600F, etc. I believe different brands contain different =20
proportions of alumina, regardless of the temperature rating.
As a side note, there are different brands of K23 brick sold here in =20
the US, some of which are good for cone ten firings and some of which =20=
aren't. (Clayart hearsay evidence)
best wishes,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
On Jan 29, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
> When we speak of K23, K26 and K28 in relationship to Insulating =20
> Firebrick what does that mean ? Can someone confirm my =20
> understanding that Fire Brick numbers relates to Pyrometric Cone =20
> Equivalent (PCE) and are based on Seger's Formulations. If this is =20
> the case then K28 will have an alumina content of about 15 %, not =20
> the 60% given by PM and deform at about 1630=BA C according to the =20
> diagram on p 157 in "Pioneer Pottery"
> Best regards,
> Ivor Lewis.
> Redhill,
> South Australia.
Dave Finkelnburg on mon 30 jan 06
Dear Ivor,
My understanding is the IFB rating, such as K23, indicates a brick good for continuous service at 2300F. I do not believe that rating implies anything more rigorous than that heat in air. In other words, salt, soda, woodfire vapor, reducing atmosphere, etc. may shorten the life of such brick.
Good potting!
Dave Finkelnburg
On Jan 29, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
> When we speak of K23, K26 and K28 in relationship to Insulating
> Firebrick what does that mean ?
---------------------------------
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Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 31 jan 06
Dear Paul Herman,=20
Have a look at the reference I gave for Pyrometric Cone Equivalent in =
Fournier's Dictionary, Page 183. He gives a high duty firebrick with a =
PCE of 33. In your terms this would translate to 3300 deg F. Do you =
realise how this compares with Orton Cones or the Celsius scale?
Does any one know what Singer and Singer say in "Industrial Ceramics"
Best regards,
Ivor
Ivor and Olive Lewis on tue 31 jan 06
Dear Michael Wendt,=20
When you write 2300 degree brick I presume you are speaking in =
Fahrenheit, which exchanges to 1260 Celsius round about Orton Cone 8
What I am saying is that a cone made from No 23 brick composition would =
fall at the same time as an ASTM Orton or Seger Cone No 23. Hence the =
appellation of Pyrometric Cone Equivalent. Have a look at the definition =
in Robert Fournier's Dictionary, page 183.
Best regards,
Ivor
Stephen Mills on tue 31 jan 06
Dear Ivor Lewis,
In my previous life in a Ceramic Supply business, I was told by my
Refractory Materials supplier that the brick number indicated the
maximum temperature the brick could withstand for 24 hours continuously
in degrees Fahrenheit. Thus K23 reads as 2300oF and so on.
Best regards
Steve Mills
In message , Ivor and Olive Lewis writes
>Dear Friends,
>An interesting report about Peter Meanly. Has anyone translated the =3D
>German commentary?
>When we speak of K23, K26 and K28 in relationship to Insulating =3D
>Firebrick what does that mean ? Can someone confirm my understanding =3D
>that Fire Brick numbers relates to Pyrometric Cone Equivalent (PCE) and =3D
>are based on Seger's Formulations. If this is the case then K28 will =3D
>have an alumina content of about 15 %, not the 60% given by PM and =3D
>deform at about 1630=3DBA C according to the diagram on p 157 in "Pioneer=
> =3D
>Pottery"
>Best regards,
>Ivor Lewis.
>Redhill,
>South Australia.
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Paul Herman on wed 1 feb 06
Greetings Ivor,
I believe the term "K23" is a different reference than "PCE". PCE
refers to the pyrometric cone equivalent (the cone at which the
bricks material, if made into a cone, would bend). K23 I still
believe refers to service temperature in degrees F. So I think you
are trying to make a connection where there is none.
I have not seen insulating firebrick sold with a PCE rating, though
it seems common for hard firebrick. My "high heat duty" hard
firebricks are listed around PCE 32-33.
Unfortunately I don't have either book you refer to.
Best,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
On Jan 30, 2006, at 11:03 PM, Ivor and Olive Lewis wrote:
> Dear Paul Herman,
>
> Have a look at the reference I gave for Pyrometric Cone Equivalent
> in Fournier's Dictionary, Page 183. He gives a high duty firebrick
> with a PCE of 33. In your terms this would translate to 3300 deg F.
> Do you realise how this compares with Orton Cones or the Celsius
> scale?
>
> Does any one know what Singer and Singer say in "Industrial Ceramics"
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ivor
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