Vince Pitelka on tue 28 jun 05
> We don't want our words to become meaningless; and
> words that are too narrow in use or too broad in use
> are meaningless.
Thanks to Steve Slatin for this simple statement. In this case, I think we
all have a pretty clear idea of what "thrown" means, and I am surprised at
the directions this thread has gone. Why confuse the issue?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Steve Slatin on tue 28 jun 05
Debby --
Great! The problem is that now we have no word to
mean what is commonly meant by thrown -- i.e., where
the momentum of an human-powerd or power of a
mechanically powered wheel is used in the creation of
a pot.
Else practically all pottery will have to use the
same, single term -- like if you take a lump of clay
and repeatedly bang a rock into the center of it while
*turning* the clay in your hand, that would be
throwing ... hand building on a turntable would be
throwing ... using an inertia wheel poked with a stick
would be throwing ... using a heavy wood inertia wheel
kicked with a foot would be throwing ... and using an
electric or other powered wheel would also be
throwing.
We don't want our words to become meaningless; and
words that are too narrow in use or too broad in use
are meaningless.
-- Steve Slatin
--- DEBBYGrant@AOL.COM wrote:
> Just to clear up some definitions. The word throw is
> old English for turn
> and has come down in modern English to still mean
> turn when applied to making
> pottery. Therefor, I suppose you can say that any
> lump of clay that is "turned"
> on a wheel or banding wheel can be called thrown.
>
> Debby Grant in N.H.
Steve Slatin --
Frail my heart apart and play me little Shady Grove
Ring the bells of Rhymney till they ring inside my head forever
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Randall Moody on tue 28 jun 05
"Kind of like the word art.", he says, while ducking and running for cover.
On 6/28/05, Steve Slatin wrote:
> Debby --
>=20
> We don't want our words to become meaningless; and
> words that are too narrow in use or too broad in use
> are meaningless.
>=20
> -- Steve Slatin
Mike Martino on wed 29 jun 05
I agree completely with Steve's statement.
On the other hand however, if I had started my master's thesis with "I
think we all have a pretty clear idea of what ' (insert definable
concept here)' is, and then failed to define it clearly for the
arguement presented in my thesis, I'm pretty sure my professors would
have given me hell about it.
Ok, clearly I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but obviously not
everyone has a pretty clear idea of what throwing is, and the
definition could very well have some wiggling room.
Damn, must be feeling feisty tonight. I don't usually get involved in
these little debates. Popped open the first bottle of a new batch of
homebrew tonight, gotta love these Japanese 633ml beer bottles! A
couple of those and the fingers really start to fly!
Mike
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
mike martino
in taku, japan
muchimi@potteryofjapan.com
www.potteryofjapan.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Vince
Pitelka
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:27 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Tech Talk, was: Re: Coil and Throw.
> We don't want our words to become meaningless; and
> words that are too narrow in use or too broad in use
> are meaningless.
Thanks to Steve Slatin for this simple statement. In this case, I think
we all have a pretty clear idea of what "thrown" means, and I am
surprised at the directions this thread has gone. Why confuse the
issue?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111 vpitelka@dtccom.net,
wpitelka@tntech.edu http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
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Ben on wed 29 jun 05
Mike Martino wrote:
but obviously not
everyone has a pretty clear idea of what throwing is, and the
definition could very well have some wiggling room.
Funny too:
I'd a thought Vince,
Living in Tennessee as he does,
Woulda knowed
The proper term ain't throwin'
It's turnin'.
Plenty a room in that for some southern hospitality....
Later,
Ben
Marcia Selsor on wed 29 jun 05
I documented potters in Spain who used a very primitive wheel, added
coils, spun it fast and threw. I would say the pots were definitely
thrown.
This was a wheel that is called a Celtic wheel and is similar to the
original wheels from the middle east. The potter kneels on the ground
while
throwing. The shaft is in a hole in a rock with a greased piece of
leather the help with the spinning action. The pots are beautiful.
Marcia Selsor
Vince Pitelka on wed 29 jun 05
> I'd a thought Vince,
> Living in Tennessee as he does,
> Woulda knowed
> The proper term ain't throwin'
> It's turnin'.
That's a good point, but I guess Tennessee culture hasn't seeped into my
bones quite to that degree. As someone pointed out, the term "throwing"
goes back to old English terminology for "turning." But as I understand it,
the early American usage of the term "turning" that has survived in
Appalachian and Piedmont pottery tradition comes from turning objects on a
wood lathe. Throughout the history of pottery in those regions, there were
also people turing chair legs and wood bowls on a lathe, and that term
seemed most applicable to what the potter was doing on the wheel.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Vince Pitelka on wed 29 jun 05
>I documented potters in Spain who used a very primitive wheel, added
> coils, spun it fast and threw. I would say the pots were definitely
> thrown.
> This was a wheel that is called a Celtic wheel and is similar to the
> original wheels from the middle east. The potter kneels on the ground
> while
> throwing. The shaft is in a hole in a rock with a greased piece of
> leather the help with the spinning action. The pots are beautiful.
> Marcia Selsor
Marcia -
This is essentially the design of the first potter's wheel that originated
in the Middle East around 2500 BC. It featured a large stone disk with a
cone-shaped hole in the bottom that ran on a pointed hardwood stick, using
ample grease. Near the outer edge on top of the disk is a small hole, and a
long stick would be inserted in that hole while "cranking" the wheel to gain
momentum. The potter would sit down on her/his haunches, crank up the
wheel, drop the stick, and reach to the center of the wheel to throw a pot.
Many cultures in the Middle East and East Asia still use the same design.
Lee referred to a similar wheel in Japan within the past week.
In some cultures, they now use a salvaged front axle and tapered roller
bearing from a junked car to support a cast concrete wheel. That helps the
wheel to run level, and helps preserve the inertia.
I recently viewed footage of potters in rural China, and some of the wheels
they used were identical to this design. Several years ago we had a Clayart
participant named Bruce who was posting from India, and he emailed me some
pictures of a traditional Indian pottery shop, and they used the same
design. It is amazing that so many potters are still throwing on a wheel
that was designed almost 5000 years ago.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Marcia Selsor on wed 29 jun 05
Vince, Right!
There is a photo of this in Don Davis' WHEEL-THROWN CERAMICS book by
Lark Publications.
Oage 13 shows a woman potter in Moveros, Spain "throwing" on a very
primitive type wheel. It can spin for a long time. The clay is very
granular in this village with lots of Mica. It fires out a beautiful
wheat toasty color and is fired in Granite kilns of a "celtic" design.
Marcia Selsor
On Jun 29, 2005, at 3:10 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>> I documented potters in Spain who used a very primitive wheel, added
>> coils, spun it fast and threw. I would say the pots were definitely
>> thrown.
>> This was a wheel that is called a Celtic wheel and is similar to the
>> original wheels from the middle east. The potter kneels on the ground
>> while
>> throwing. The shaft is in a hole in a rock with a greased piece of
>> leather the help with the spinning action. The pots are beautiful.
>> Marcia Selsor
>>
>
> Marcia -
> This is essentially the design of the first potter's wheel that
> originated
> in the Middle East around 2500 BC. It featured a large stone disk
> with a
> cone-shaped hole in the bottom that ran on a pointed hardwood
> stick, using
> ample grease. Near the outer edge on top of the disk is a small
> hole, and a
> long stick would be inserted in that hole while "cranking" the
> wheel to gain
> momentum. The potter would sit down on her/his haunches, crank up the
> wheel, drop the stick, and reach to the center of the wheel to
> throw a pot.
> Many cultures in the Middle East and East Asia still use the same
> design.
> Lee referred to a similar wheel in Japan within the past week.
>
> In some cultures, they now use a salvaged front axle and tapered
> roller
> bearing from a junked car to support a cast concrete wheel. That
> helps the
> wheel to run level, and helps preserve the inertia.
>
> I recently viewed footage of potters in rural China, and some of
> the wheels
> they used were identical to this design. Several years ago we had
> a Clayart
> participant named Bruce who was posting from India, and he emailed
> me some
> pictures of a traditional Indian pottery shop, and they used the same
> design. It is amazing that so many potters are still throwing on a
> wheel
> that was designed almost 5000 years ago.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Snail Scott on sun 3 jul 05
At 10:27 PM 6/28/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>...I think we
>all have a pretty clear idea of what "thrown" means, and I am surprised at
>the directions this thread has gone. Why confuse the issue?
I think some folks are religiously devoted to the
notion that the only 'real' pottery is thrown
pottery, and thus any apparently worthwhile work
needs to have the definition of 'thrown' expanded
to include it.
-Snail
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