Vince Pitelka on fri 10 jun 05
Michael Morris wrote"
"My comments on this issue are very brief. If you want to run with the
status quo and have no individuality in your work versus everyone else who
buys the same clay, then by all means buy the pre-made crap. If on the
other hand you seek to set yourself apart from others and be a leader, make
your own. Just be prepared for the extra labor."
Michael -
Very brief and very self-righteous and arrogant. As you well know, setting
yourself apart as an artist/craftsperson has nothing at all to do with
whether you make your own clay. It is what you do with the clay that
determines that.
There are plenty of clay suppliers who make very good clay, as good as
anything you can make. I love to make my own clay. I like to control the
claybody myself. I like to know exactly what is in it, in what proportions.
But I wouldn't presume to say that my clay is any better than the good clays
made by Tuckers or Highwater or the Tacoma Clay Art Center. That would be a
foolish boast.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Michael Morris on fri 10 jun 05
My comments on this issue are very brief. If you want to run with the =
status quo and have no individuality in your work versus everyone else =
who buys the same clay, then by all means buy the pre-made crap. If on =
the other hand you seek to set yourself apart from others and be a =
leader, make your own. Just be prepared for the extra labor. =20
Anagama Wood-Fired Vessels
By
Michael R. Morris
570-759-1768
mrmorris1@hotmail.com
drippyashpots@yahoo.com
Lee Love on sat 11 jun 05
Vince Pitelka wrote:
> It is what you do with the clay that
> determines that.
It is part of the process. Of course, you can make very fine work from
refined clay. It is like Teddy Rosevelt's saying: "Do what you can, with
what you got, where you are."
But I take issue with the statement below:
>
> There are plenty of clay suppliers who make very good clay, as good as
> anything you can make.
The selection of clays in America is miniscule, compared even to what
can be bought here at Joyful Honda, the home improvement center. They
don't sell clay in America (except in a very few places) like what you
can get here: minimally processed, unrefind clay, created specifically
for potters from non-industrial sources. It is all about numbers and the
potting public knowing the difference between natural and industrial
materials for clay bodies and glazes.
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
Rod Wuetherick on sat 11 jun 05
Micheal M. Morris
" If on the other hand you seek to set yourself apart from others and be a
leader, make your own. Just be prepared for the extra labor."
Is this a continuation of the canned ka ka mention I made? This comment
would fill more than 90 cans as it surely is a big ole' load of crapola.
That's a fact...
rod
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on sat 11 jun 05
I agree with Vince about the attitude,, i like buying clay. I mixed clay in
college,, it was nice,, probably still have the clay dust in my lungs from
that.. Back in the old days we didnt have much safety stuff. We used Walker Pug
mills and also dough mixers, Maybe we used a throw away mask that would be
useless as soon a you started hauling 55 lb bags of clay as the sweat ruined
them.. Ill keep buying my clay. I DO want to make to enjoy making pots. Its
what i do. I dont want to store 1,000,s of bags of clay and other materials that
go in it. I have lots of materials in bags and cans etc for doing glaze they
take up lots of space
I just got 800 lbs of dry materials in bags, i have store that stuff.
although i gave a 25 lb bag of cullet to Dolita yesterday to deliver to Mudfire.
She came to visit,,
As far as making clay, ive been ading stuff to the clay i buy. I wedge in
iron shavings , lots stuff going on in the clay when i do that. It becomes my
clay,, It changes the glazes and i get a different look. Is something i like.
Ive been working on making pots that are mine for 40 yrs now. Im still
learning. I do like to dig clay up for my glazes since my glazes are 50% clay. I
get clay near by for my glazes, but to dig up clay for making pots, its too
hard and to exspensive to buy a backhoe a dump truck and trailer to dig it and
haul it , so ill just be a potter that uses clay from a clay supplier.
As much as i really like to be on my tractor or my backhoe ill buy clay..I
will do things to the clay i buy and i will still make my own glazes , But if
you really think that your work is better because you mix clay, great! I
guess you nead to start mining clay and glaze materials like the old timers ,
get a copy of Foxfire 8 , move to place that has the materials near by. And
good luck
Mark on Lookout Mountain
Dean Poole on sat 11 jun 05
Only a very few of mans creations have even a hint of imagination. Mix
your own clay if it makes you feel special but as for the rest there is
nothing new under the sun.
Steve Irvine on sat 11 jun 05
I wonder if the same line of reasoning holds true for painters. My guess is that Picasso bought the
same tubes of Grumbacher oil paints as everyone else.
Steve Irvine
http://www.steveirvine.com
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:36:54 -0400, Michael Morris wrote:
>My comments on this issue are very brief. If you want to run with the status quo and have no
>individuality in your work versus everyone else who buys the same clay, then by all means buy
>the pre-made crap. If on the other hand you seek to set yourself apart from others and be a
>leader, make your own. Just be prepared for the extra labor.
>
>Anagama Wood-Fired Vessels
> By
> Michael R. Morris
> 570-759-1768
> mrmorris1@hotmail.com
> drippyashpots@yahoo.com
Steve Irvine on sat 11 jun 05
Hi Lee,
It isn't the same as in Japan, but there are a few companies here in North America that mine and
prepare clays specifically for potters. Plainsman Clays in Medicine Hat, Alberta is one.
http://www2.plainsmanclays.com:4201/
I've used maybe, 100 tonnes of their clay and never had a bad ounce.
Steve Irvine
http://www.steveirvine.com
>The selection of clays in America is miniscule, compared even to what
>can be bought here at Joyful Honda, the home improvement center. They
>don't sell clay in America (except in a very few places) like what you
>can get here: minimally processed, unrefind clay, created specifically
>for potters from non-industrial sources. It is all about numbers and the
>potting public knowing the difference between natural and industrial
>materials for clay bodies and glazes.
>
>--
> Lee Love
Vince Pitelka on sat 11 jun 05
> Only a very few of mans creations have even a hint of imagination. Mix
> your own clay if it makes you feel special but as for the rest there is
> nothing new under the sun.
What a sadly pessimistic view on the world, overlooking or ignoring the
wonderful, extensive, and diverse creative works of humankind.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on sat 11 jun 05
Hello Steve,
I also use Plainsman clays (H-440 and H-435) and your statement is correct,
in quite lesser amounts than you.
" I've used maybe, 100 tonnes of their clay and never had a bad ounce.
Steve Irvine"
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces quebecois"
"They are insane these quebekers"
"Estn locos estos quebequeses"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/
Dean Poole on sun 12 jun 05
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:49:36 -0500, Vince Pitelka wrot=
e:
>> Only a very few of mans creations have even a hint of imagination. Mix
>> your own clay if it makes you feel special but as for the rest there is
>> nothing new under the sun.
>
>What a sadly pessimistic view on the world, overlooking or ignoring the
>wonderful, extensive, and diverse creative works of humankind.
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
>Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
>vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
>http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>___________________________________________________________________________=
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It wasn=92t intended to be pessimistic just a short comment on mans overall
arrogance. We didn=92t make the clay we use it. Potters have long since
explored most major functional forms and yet some forget the past and
consider themselves innovative. This isn=92t to say there isn=92t innovation=
just that true brilliance of expression is not common place. I see things to=
admire in others work I am even pleased with my own sometimes excellent most=
times mediocre pots. My forms after 15 years still need refining and yet I
am thanked every show for providing something that cant be bought at Wally
world. Its just that to often I meet potters at shows better pleased with
themselves than with the world. They brag of there superior this or that and=
look at others work as if its beneath there notice. The art world is taught
in some circles to be elitist expressionists of the human condition. Taking
on the responsibility for those unfortunate masses who cant put four letters=
together and spell shit. Not all artist are elitists but I have met some
instructors with this attitude and students heartily willing to believe it
for the rest of there miserable pathetic existence.
Lee Love on sun 12 jun 05
Steve Irvine wrote:
>I wonder if the same line of reasoning holds true for painters. My guess is that Picasso bought the
>same tubes of Grumbacher oil paints as everyone else.
>
>
Our great advantage over oil painters is the diversity of our oxides and
what happens to them in the fire.
Also, here in Japan, traditionally, painters mix up their pigments from
natural organic and inorganic materials. Paint in tubes was introduced
by the West.
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
Lee Love on sun 12 jun 05
Steve Irvine wrote:
>It isn't the same as in Japan, but there are a few companies here in North America that mine and
>prepare clays specifically for potters. Plainsman Clays in Medicine Hat, Alberta is one.
>http://www2.plainsmanclays.com:4201/
>I've used maybe, 100 tonnes of their clay and never had a bad ounce.
>
>
I have been following the changes with hope. :-)
People think you have to mine potter specific materials and dig them up
with your own shovel or back hoe. Very few potters here in Japan do
this. All that is required is the recognizing that there is a difference
between materials made for industry and potter specific materials, and
then the creation of a corresponding demand.
If potters know the difference and create a demand, then the materials
will be provided. Otherwise we are like Picasso painting with house
paint. ;-)
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
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