Bob Hanlin on tue 1 mar 05
I'm going to do a horse hair decoration thing at a High School. In the
past I'd just pulled 'em out and tried. If the hair burned off without
making a mark, I'd just wait a bit and try again.
There's got to be a better way. Can anybody tell me what temp. to pull
the pots?
Bob Hanlin
I OKC where it's been a nice winter...for winter that is.
Bruce Girrell on tue 1 mar 05
700 deg C is on the high side. 500 deg C is too cold. Not much room for
error.
Bruce "Goldilocks likes 600 to 650 C" Girrell
Gene Arnold on tue 1 mar 05
Bob
I do my horse hair in a raku kiln but I use a pyrometer to keep check of the
temp. I pull my pots at 1200 degrees. This gives me a little time to place
the pot on the banding wheel with an IFB placed on it and get raku gloves
off before the pot cools too much.
If you do your pots in an electric kiln be very careful not to touch the
elements with the tongs when you pull your pots. Could be a hair raising
experience.
You can see examples of our horse hair on our web site if you would like.
Gene & Latonna
mudduck@mudduckpottery.com
www.mudduckpottery.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hanlin"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:32 PM
Subject: What is good temp to pull pots for horse hair decoration
>
Brian Haviland on wed 2 mar 05
I found that you have a very small window to apply horse hair to the pot.
I always bend cone 4 over and remove pot and test with hair until i have
carbon traces on the pot. It's good to have an assistant handing you the
hair so you can use your time more creatively instead of digging for hair
with gloved hands. I also find that using ferric chloride at different temps
will give off a variety of colors from deep browns to bright yellows. Please
use caution with ferric chloride and get a respirator mask and goggles.
Have fun
Brian Haviland
At 08:31 PM 3/1/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>700 deg C is on the high side. 500 deg C is too cold. Not much room for
>error.
>
>Bruce "Goldilocks likes 600 to 650 C" Girrell
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Notice: "If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of this e-mail and/or any attachments is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this copy and any attachments hereto from your system. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation."
bonnie staffel on wed 2 mar 05
I would think that when you pull pots from the kiln, you have to take into
consideration the cooling rate to the point where you apply the horsehair so
with this method your pulling temperature would be higher than the way I
have done it. I have always just lifted the lid and applied the hair while
still in the kiln. You then do not lose much heat in case you miscalculate
the temperature. I believe I did this at between 1000 deg. and ll00 deg. I
could get different effects from soft marbling with tan smoking to strong
black markings. My pots were placed on the top shelf within easy reach with
my horsehair. I wore riveters gloves to do this, not any tools.
Warm regards,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
Charter Member Potters Council
Marvpots@AOL.COM on wed 2 mar 05
If you were using a Raku type kiln, a temperature of about 1700F would be
just right; if you then had your horse hair already laid out on a kaowool
blanket, you would, with tongs, remove the piece, lay it on the blanket over the
hair and roll the piece in the blanket and over the rest of the horse hair. When
the piece has cooled sufficiently to handle, the excesss hair can be removed
with a stiff brush
This is a procedure I learned from Marcia Selsor who is a frequent
contributor to Clayart and a wonderful potter with many years of experience.
Perhaps she will reply to you as well.
Good luck!
Marvin Flowerman
Bob Hanlin on sat 5 mar 05
Gene:
One more thing...........I remember bisqueing these pieces before at normal bisque 08 or even a bit higher so they would be tougher at 05 or so. Then my wife asked me while I was in the shower, "How is the horsehair going to permantly mark the pieces if they have already been fired to a higher temp? You know, I didn't have an answer. What can you tell me?
Thanks in advance!
Bob Hanlin
bobhanlin@sbcglobal.net
Gene Arnold wrote:
Bob
I do my horse hair in a raku kiln but I use a pyrometer to keep check of the
temp. I pull my pots at 1200 degrees. This gives me a little time to place
the pot on the banding wheel with an IFB placed on it and get raku gloves
off before the pot cools too much.
If you do your pots in an electric kiln be very careful not to touch the
elements with the tongs when you pull your pots. Could be a hair raising
experience.
You can see examples of our horse hair on our web site if you would like.
Gene & Latonna
mudduck@mudduckpottery.com
www.mudduckpottery.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hanlin"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:32 PM
Subject: What is good temp to pull pots for horse hair decoration
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Gene Arnold on sat 5 mar 05
Bob
I bisque all my pots to 06.
It's my understanding that the pottery will absorb the carbon from the horse
hair as it burns, which in turn marks the piece. If the pattern is not what
I like after we have put the hair on. I will just put it back in the kiln
and let the carbon burn off and just remove it from the kiln and add more
hair. I know if the piece is to hot the hair will just burn and leave no
marks. If the pot is too cool then the hair will not melt and the clay will
not absorb any carbon. At least this is my take on the process, I have no
idea if this is actual facts or not.
Horse hair placed in direct sun light will fade over time. I spray all my
pieces with clear polyurethane to help with the UV rays and fading. Some
polys will say clear but turn yellow. Valspar clear from Lowe's does the
best for me so far.
Gene & Latonna
mudduck@mudduckpottery.com
www.mudduckpottery.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hanlin"
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: What is good temp to pull pots for horse hair decoration
> Gene:
>
> One more thing...........I remember bisqueing these pieces before at
normal bisque 08 or even a bit higher so they would be tougher at 05 or so.
Then my wife asked me while I was in the shower, "How is the horsehair going
to permantly mark the pieces if they have already been fired to a higher
temp? You know, I didn't have an answer. What can you tell me?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Bob Hanlin
> bobhanlin@sbcglobal.net
>
>
> Gene Arnold wrote:
> Bob
>
> I do my horse hair in a raku kiln but I use a pyrometer to keep check of
the
> temp. I pull my pots at 1200 degrees. This gives me a little time to place
> the pot on the banding wheel with an IFB placed on it and get raku gloves
> off before the pot cools too much.
>
> If you do your pots in an electric kiln be very careful not to touch the
> elements with the tongs when you pull your pots. Could be a hair raising
> experience.
>
> You can see examples of our horse hair on our web site if you would like.
>
>
> Gene & Latonna
> mudduck@mudduckpottery.com
> www.mudduckpottery.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Hanlin"
>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:32 PM
> Subject: What is good temp to pull pots for horse hair decoration
>
>
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Bruce Girrell on sun 6 mar 05
A recent post contained a number of comments that I feel would be misleading
for someone attempting to do horsehair pottery. I will address these
individually below:
> I bisque all my pots to 06.
Because horsehair decorated pots are not glazed, you see the clay surface
directly. If you want any sort of sheen in the surface appearance, it must
be produced either by burnishing or by the application of terra sigillata
followed by buffing. In either case, a bisque temperature of ^06 will cause
a dramatic loss of sheen on the pot. I strongly recommend that you bisque at
a temperature no higher than ^010.
My experience also indicates that a higher bisque temperature will lead to
more breakage during the decoration process.
> ...if the piece is to hot the hair will just burn and leave no marks.
> If the pot is too cool then the hair will not melt...
Correct. The proper temperature for horsehair application is around 650 deg
C or 1200 deg F. Any higher than about 700 C is too hot and much less than
600 C won't give you any time for open air decoration.* At lower
temperatures the hair also tends to make straight lines which don't look
particularly attractive. Use a pyrometer. This is one place where a
pyrometer, not cones, is the proper way to go.
> Horse hair placed in direct sun light will fade over time.
We have a number of pieces that broke during decoration and were left
outside. Some pieces have been outside for at least five summers and
winters. The horsehair decoration has not faded.
> I spray all my pieces with clear polyurethane to help with the UV rays
> and fading.
A polyurethane coating is not required to prevent fading - horsehair is not
copper matte. I personally feel that a polyurethane coating looks like... a
polyurethane coating. You will have to make your own judgment here. Try one
piece burnished and one piece spray painted. See which you like better.
We do use a thin coat of clear paste wax. And I do mean _thin_. If you have
not done a good job of burnishing or if the burnish was lost by a bisque
temperature that was too high, no amount of wax will create a shine. There
may be some who even turn up their noses at a coat of wax. As I said, this
one is a personal judgment call.
One other thing that I think will help you out is to make sure that your pot
walls are of uniform thickness. Because of the extremely rapid cooling - far
worse than raku - a lack of uniformity will result in one part of the wall
cooling faster than another part. Due to the sudden shrinkage as the pot
passes through the quartz inversion temperature the cooler part will shrink
first and "pop" another pot goes on the shard pile.
Good luck.
Bruce "trust me on this one" Girrell
*When using other protein sources, such as feathers, a lower temperature
might be necessary. Other methods can be employed to keep the pot from
cooling down too rapidly.
scott@explorethejourney.org on thu 17 mar 05
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----=_NextPart_000_000B_41C02420.74804C01
Content-type: text/plain;
gene,
just checked out your website. Great work! Questions on your horsehair pots.
When you fire the pots to 1100 degrees, is that the bisque fire?
If so, is that the only fireing you do to the pots?
Where do you put the hot pots?
Do you wait until the pots are completely done, as far as not hot anymore befire you do wax?
And one more, where do you get the horse hair from? Knowing that I am a city boy.
sorry for all the questions
scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Hanlin
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Cc:
Date:
Subject: Re: What is good temp to pull pots for horse hair decoration
Gene:
One more thing...........I remember bisqueing these pieces before at normal bisque 08 or even a bit
higher so they would be tougher at 05 or so. Then my wife asked me while I was in the shower,
"How is the horsehair going to permantly mark the pieces if they have already been fired to a
higher temp? You know, I didn't have an answer. What can you tell me?
Thanks in advance!
Bob Hanlin
bobhanlin@sbcglobal.net
Gene Arnold wrote:
Bob
I do my horse hair in a raku kiln but I use a pyrometer to keep check of the
temp. I pull my pots at 1200 degrees. This gives me a little time to place
the pot on the banding wheel with an IFB placed on it and get raku gloves
off before the pot cools too much.
If you do your pots in an electric kiln be very careful not to touch the
elements with the tongs when you pull your pots. Could be a hair raising
experience.
You can see examples of our horse hair on our web site if you would like.
Gene & Latonna
mudduck@mudduckpottery.com
www.mudduckpottery.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hanlin"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:32 PM
Subject: What is good temp to pull pots for horse hair decoration
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
----=_NextPart_000_000B_41C02420.74804C01--
| |
|
