URL Krueger on fri 11 feb 05
Dumb question #4732.
I want to try footrings on the bottom of some mugs.
I have been putting handles on flat bottom mugs before the
clay is dry enough for trimming. If I continue following
this approach then the handle will be spinning around when
I trim and I'll probably knock it off. If I wait until the
body is dry enough to trim and I want about the same
moisture content in the handle and body when I join them
then the handle will probably crack when I bend it or it
may not stick well.
Oh, what to do, what to do?
What do you do?
Thanks...
Earl...
--
--
Earl K...
Bothell WA, USA
Volunteer U.S. Marine Corps 1967-1971
Our government learned a hard lesson during
the Viet Nam war: Don't release information on
"enemy" body counts because we are too good at
killing and disclosing that info gets the citizens
all riled up.
I wonder how many women and children "enemy"
Iraqi's have been killed in this war?
Michael Wendt on sat 12 feb 05
Earl,
Pull your handles, dry them a while so you can wrap them in tissue and put
them inside the mugs to keep them from drying too much.
Invert and cover the mugs just well enough to allow them to reach the
correct dryness for trimming.
Trim them and then carve the contact area of the handles so they fit the
mugs exactly without bending them at all.
Use your normal joint technique to attach and finish drying under cover.
That way the handles and the mugs are at the same stage when the handles are
attached.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
USA
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com
Earl asked:
I want to try footrings on the bottom of some mugs.
I have been putting handles on flat bottom mugs before the
clay is dry enough for trimming. If I continue following
this approach then the handle will be spinning around when
I trim and I'll probably knock it off. If I wait until the
body is dry enough to trim and I want about the same
moisture content in the handle and body when I join them
then the handle will probably crack when I bend it or it
may not stick well.
Oh, what to do, what to do?
What do you do?
Thanks...
Earl...
Paul Herman on sat 12 feb 05
Hi Earl,
I trim 'em with the handles on. It seems crazy at first, and you may
knock a couple off. After a while you get used to it, and learn to stay
out of the way of the spinning handle.
Been doing it that way for many years.
And I can impress my potter friends by slap centering teapots with both
the spout and handle on it. Makes people cringe when they see it. You
just have to slap where the appendages aren't.
slap happy,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://www.greatbasinpottery.com/
----------
>From: URL Krueger
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: trimming footrings and handles
>Date: Fri, Feb 11, 2005, 9:25 AM
>
> Oh, what to do, what to do?
>
> What do you do?
>
> Thanks...
> Earl...
John Bandurchin on sat 12 feb 05
Earl
Trim the mugs as soon as they can be handled without squashing them, use a
sharp trimming tool so you cut instead of smear the clay. Put them inside a
plastic bag so they don't dry out before getting handles. Always works for
us. Can hardly remember any handles coming off unless we let them dry well
beyond leather hard before putting handles on. (and that's happened)
John Bandurchin
Baltimore, Ontario Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "URL Krueger"
To:
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: trimming footrings and handles
> Dumb question #4732.
>
> I want to try footrings on the bottom of some mugs.
> I have been putting handles on flat bottom mugs before the
> clay is dry enough for trimming. If I continue following
> this approach then the handle will be spinning around when
> I trim and I'll probably knock it off. If I wait until the
> body is dry enough to trim and I want about the same
> moisture content in the handle and body when I join them
> then the handle will probably crack when I bend it or it
> may not stick well.
>
> Oh, what to do, what to do?
>
> What do you do?
>
> Thanks...
> Earl...
>
> --
> --
> Earl K...
> Bothell WA, USA
> Volunteer U.S. Marine Corps 1967-1971
> Our government learned a hard lesson during
> the Viet Nam war: Don't release information on
> "enemy" body counts because we are too good at
> killing and disclosing that info gets the citizens
> all riled up.
> I wonder how many women and children "enemy"
> Iraqi's have been killed in this war?
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Liz Willoughby on sat 12 feb 05
Hello Earl,
No question is dumb. I trim a foot on my mugs, always before I
attach a handle. As I trim, I put each mug under plastic to keep
them from drying out further. Then I pull handles on the mugs. I
have no cracking problem, using my never fail vinegared slip scored
on the mug and the handle before pulling, on cone 10 porcelain.
Meticky Liz from Grafton, Ontario Canada
You Must Believe in Spring
>Dumb question #4732.
>
>I want to try footrings on the bottom of some mugs.
>I have been putting handles on flat bottom mugs before the
>clay is dry enough for trimming. If I continue following
>this approach then the handle will be spinning around when
>I trim and I'll probably knock it off. If I wait until the
>body is dry enough to trim and I want about the same
>moisture content in the handle and body when I join them
>then the handle will probably crack when I bend it or it
>may not stick well.
>
>What do you do?
--
william schran on sat 12 feb 05
Earl wrote:>I want to try footrings on the bottom of some mugs.
I have been putting handles on flat bottom mugs before the
clay is dry enough for trimming. If I continue following
this approach then the handle will be spinning around when
I trim and I'll probably knock it off. If I wait until the
body is dry enough to trim and I want about the same
moisture content in the handle and body when I join them
then the handle will probably crack when I bend it or it
may not stick well. Oh, what to do, what to do? What do you do?<
If you want to trim footrings, then trim first, then add handles.
I do this, rarely have handles crack.
I make my handles, trim the pots, handles have a chance to set up a
bit, score attachment areas, wet slightly scored areas, apply slurry,
attach handles, allow to dry slowly.
You could continue your method and after the mug has set up a bit,
give the bottom a tap or two to create a concave shape, allowing the
edges to act like a footring - I do this also.
Bill
wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET on sat 12 feb 05
Earl:
I'm not sure if you were pulling our leg with this post or not, but
in for a penny, in for a pound I guess....
I don't make a lot of handled items, but I do make items that once
altered, are in no way safe to trim spinning, even with massive wads
at the bottom, or on a chuck. I still manage to trim them, using a
trick a machinist showed me. Admittedly, this approach is "outside
the box", but it works for me.
With the wheel turning very slowly, center the piece so that the
diameter of the bottom is centered. Place a cap from a plastic soda
bottle on the center of the bottom, and hold it with the index
finger of the hand that is NOT holding the trimming tool. Press
lightly, but enough to hold the piece in place. Trim the undercut on
the outside. You might want to increase the wheel speed slightly,
but keep it much slower than you normally would, since centrifugal
forces are at work here. Did I mention that you're standing while
you're doing this, and your shirt tails are tucked in...and so is
your belly? The handle can whirl merrily along, encountering
nothing but air.
Once you've got the outside trimmed, stop the wheel. Wrap the
outside of the piece you're working on with a single layer of thin
plastic (like Saran Wrap or similar) in the area you just trimmed.
Remove the soda cap from the center of the bottom, and start the
wheel slowly again. With the hand that is not holding the trimming
tool, form a "c" between your thumb and index finger, and lightly
place it on the outside of the object, in the area you just trimmed.
Your hand is damp, of course. Your trim tool blade will be used
opposite (somewhat inside) the "c", (the "c" of your hand is
countering the sideways force generated as you press into the clay
to trim). Your "c" hand is not only pressing slightly sideways, but
also down slightly to keep the piece in place on the wheel. This
allows you to trim the inside of the footring.
Afterward, remove the plastic and lightly sponge to clean it up.
Obviously a light touch is required.
You might want to consider centering a "chuck" of clay smaller than
the diameter of the piece you're working on, then overlay it with
thin cloth or plastic. Place the piece on the chuck, trim and
remove. This works better for multiple pieces (production?)
Hope that helps.
All the best,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of URL
Krueger
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:26 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: trimming footrings and handles
Dumb question #4732.
I want to try footrings on the bottom of some mugs.
I have been putting handles on flat bottom mugs before the
clay is dry enough for trimming. If I continue following
this approach then the handle will be spinning around when
I trim and I'll probably knock it off. If I wait until the
body is dry enough to trim and I want about the same
moisture content in the handle and body when I join them
then the handle will probably crack when I bend it or it
may not stick well.
Oh, what to do, what to do?
What do you do?
Thanks...
Earl...
--
--
Earl K...
Bothell WA, USA
Volunteer U.S. Marine Corps 1967-1971
Our government learned a hard lesson during
the Viet Nam war: Don't release information on
"enemy" body counts because we are too good at
killing and disclosing that info gets the citizens
all riled up.
I wonder how many women and children "enemy"
Iraqi's have been killed in this war?
____________________________________________________________________
__________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Daniel Semler on sat 12 feb 05
Hi Earl,
I've tried trimming after attaching the handle. It does work, but your handle
design may need to be alter slightly depending on the foot. As you say, you do
need to pay attention to it as it spins around. Its only really a problem
(drying too fast) that I've had when I'm using a porcelain I'm not used to.
Otherwise trimming first and fitting a handle second seems fine. I now pull
handles directly on the mug and I don't find it a problem to trim first. I
often wax the handle joints but I'm trying to develop the timing required to
avoid this.
Funny though, I always trim a foot, and now I've been thinking of not doing
it, and you're thinking the reverse.
Thanx
D
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Craig Clark on sat 12 feb 05
Earl, first of all the old admonition, all at once now, "...there's
no such thing as a dumb queston!" What has worked for me is to trim the
cup at the earliest possible opportunity, right before it becomes
leather, just use a loop tool if the cutting tool doesn't work . Then
you shouldn't have much of a problem. However, if the cup seems too dry
to attach a handle do a quick dip of the cup into your water bucket for
about a ten second count. Make sure the water fills the cavity of the
cup when you do this. Watch for trapping air. Then pour it out and set
the pot on your work table. After that let the pot set for a few minutes
to absorb the water on it's skin and then attach the handle wherever it
you see fit. Keep in mind the form following function idea as you do this.
Be sure to slip and score where you are attaching the handle. After
the handle sets up a bit cover the cup with light plastic, the stuff
from the dry cleaners works very well, and let the moisture equalize.
Just let it dry while lightly drapped. If you still have cracking
problems at the joint try using Lana's magic water rather than regular
slip or put a bit of vinegar in the slip that you use.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
Lisa Skeen on sun 13 feb 05
Er.....this is a good place for a Giffin Grip, IMO. YOu can 'grab' the
piece with the little hands anywhere BUT where the handle is, and trim away.
No plastic, no soda bottles, no extra sponging needed.
L
----- Original Message -----
From:
With the wheel turning very slowly, center the piece so that the diameter of
the bottom is centered. Place a cap from a plastic soda bottle on the
center of the bottom, and hold it with the index finger of the hand that is
NOT holding the trimming tool. Did I mention that you're standing
while you're doing this, and your shirt tails are tucked in...and so is your
belly? The handle can whirl merrily along, encountering nothing but
air.
Earl Brunner on sun 13 feb 05
If there is some confusion about my just previous post, it is because for
some reason your message below went into my personal mail folder, NOT my
clayart folder so I thought you had emailed me directly. Sorry about
that.......
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Craig Clark
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 5:39 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: trimming footrings and handles
Earl, first of all the old admonition, all at once now, "...there's
no such thing as a dumb queston!" What has worked for me is to trim the
cup at the earliest possible opportunity, right before it becomes
leather, just use a loop tool if the cutting tool doesn't work . Then
you shouldn't have much of a problem. However, if the cup seems too dry
to attach a handle do a quick dip of the cup into your water bucket for
about a ten second count. Make sure the water fills the cavity of the
cup when you do this. Watch for trapping air. Then pour it out and set
the pot on your work table. After that let the pot set for a few minutes
to absorb the water on it's skin and then attach the handle wherever it
you see fit. Keep in mind the form following function idea as you do this.
Be sure to slip and score where you are attaching the handle. After
the handle sets up a bit cover the cup with light plastic, the stuff
from the dry cleaners works very well, and let the moisture equalize.
Just let it dry while lightly drapped. If you still have cracking
problems at the joint try using Lana's magic water rather than regular
slip or put a bit of vinegar in the slip that you use.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
dannon rhudy on sun 13 feb 05
If trimming footrings on mugs, it is best to trim them a
little softer than you might trim other pieces. In that way
you won't have problems attaching handles. The handles
do not need to be as dry as the body, can't pull handles
that dry. Just attach them and if you have cracking problems you might try
waxing the handles once they are
on the mug - slows down drying time, which can help a lot.
Or, do a tray or board full and drop a loose piece of light
plastic over the whole thing, again to slow the drying time and give the
moisture levels time to even out a bit.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Jennifer Baumeister on sun 13 feb 05
Earl,
The answer to this is leather hard..
As soon as your mug is firm enough to sit on the rim, flip it and trim the bottom.
I just scratch the spots where I plan to attach the handle and add a dob of thick slurry, usually I
work some of the handle clay into the mug extra measure.
I tend to stiffen the handles I have pulled by hanging them off the end of my workbench.... (for about 10 to 20 minutes in this dry winter environment). It makes the mug to handle moisture level a little closer and the stiffened handles are much easier to attach.
Even , slow drying seems to work for me.
I made myself a drying tent out of cheap plastic shelving wrapped in clear plastic garbage bags and taped it all together with duct tape ( its the Canadian thing to use ! ). The front area is attached at the top and just drapes over the front.
I find that the 5 shelves in the tent have different drying properties, the top shelf keeps the ware very damp , the shelves below dry a little more. If I want to keep in process pots wet for longer periods( like a long weekend) , I add a few wet sponges or soaked plaster board.
After attaching the handles , I put the mugs on the top shelf to even out the moisture levels between the handle and mug.
Then if the ware delicate I will move it down one shelf each day. By the bottom shelf they are almost dry.
If not very delicate, I will move it down to the bottom shelves after 1 day on the upper shelves.
Knock on wood.....I have never lost a handle , nor have I ever had any cracked pots.
Prior to the home made drying shelves , I used plastic to cover the work.
Hope this helps,
Jen
PS. Thanks for posting your MC6 glaze test on your web site, It is has been very helpful.
>Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:25:58 -0800
>From: URL Krueger
>Subject: trimming footrings and handles
>Dumb question #4732.
I want to try footrings on the bottom of some mugs.
I have been putting handles on flat bottom mugs before the
clay is dry enough for trimming. If I continue following
this approach then the handle will be spinning around when
I trim and I'll probably knock it off. If I wait until the
body is dry enough to trim and I want about the same
moisture content in the handle and body when I join them
then the handle will probably crack when I bend it or it
may not stick well.
Oh, what to do, what to do?
What do you do?
Thanks...
Earl...
URL Krueger on sun 13 feb 05
On Saturday 12 February 2005 11:14 am, wjskw@BELLSOUTH.NET
wrote:
> Earl:
> I'm not sure if you were pulling our leg with this post
> or not, but in for a penny, in for a pound I guess....
No, Wayne, I was serious. I was sitting back with my feet
propped up critically looking at a series of mugs I'm
working on for the NCECA stay-at-homes mug exchange when I
thought they might look better with a foot ring to raise
them up just a little. Then it struck me; how would you do
that? Seemed like a Catch-22 (for those who remember that
movie/book.) Such a trivial question but the more you
think about it the more complications arise. So, I thought
I would ask Claytown how they do it. The responses were
great.
Seems like another one of those "Whatever works for you"
kind of things, although the preponderance seems to be trim
soft then apply handles. I have a dozen bodies in the damp
box now so I'll be trying out the various methods later
today after I fix the lawn mower (Yes folks, Spring is
coming, or at least my grass thinks so.)
--
Earl K...
Bothell WA, USA
Volunteer U.S. Marine Corps 1967-1971
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