search  current discussion  categories  kilns & firing - misc 

kiln and cars in garage

updated mon 27 dec 04

 

Lili Krakowski on wed 22 dec 04


Am I missing something? Don't cars have like gasoline in them no more? =
And aren't garages full of flammables?

I think most people who use their garages for their kilns take extreme =
precautions. Not storing gas cans, cans of oil, and like that. Making =
sure the floor is clean of grease. Taking the veehickles out...

and, thank you Bonnie, I repeat: make sure the insurance company and =
the zoning and fire depts. approve. =20


Lili Krakowski


Be of good courage

Arnold Howard on wed 22 dec 04


I think fire marshals would agree with Lili.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
arnoldhoward@att.net / www.paragonweb.com
-----------------
From: "Lili Krakowski"
Am I missing something? Don't cars have like gasoline in them no more? And
aren't garages full of flammables?

I think most people who use their garages for their kilns take extreme
precautions. Not storing gas cans, cans of oil, and like that. Making sure
the floor is clean of grease. Taking the veehickles out...

pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on thu 23 dec 04


Hi Lili, all...


Well...unless one were wet-mopping with Gasolene (you know,
to really get that floor spic-'n'-span) while the Gas-Kiln
(or electric Kiln even) were runining, I would not expect
any troubles.

The Gasolene in a Car's Gas-Tank, especially when ambient
Air is cold, is not going to be making any flammible
evaporates worth mentioning, and certainly none across a
room or other. If it were enough to worry about, the odor
would about knock you out right away with no mystery as to
it's dense chokeing presence.

If the Car were close to the Kiln, and the Car's Gas-Tank
were getting palpably hot, or if the Gas in it were boiling,
then, maybe it would be prudent to move it over a little
ways.

Some of my Motorcyleing buds here, who used to ride in the
Summer, well...the Gasolene in their Tanks used to boil when
they'd sit there forever waiting for the light to turn
Green...(my 'bike never boiled...oweing somehow to how it
ran cooler a little bit, maybe 'cause I used to rich out the
Carb's knurled-top screws when it got hot out, and lean 'em
some ways come Winter...or who knows...but it made me just a
little tiny bit thinking about feeling a hint of almost
nervous sitting next to them at a light...seeing all them
air-wrinkles steaming out from around their Gas-Caps...)

Poor Kiln venting I believe can sometimes bring about in
it's room, some condensates of Hydroflouric Acid vapours
which may etch Glass or fog it somewhat...which could, over
time, obscure one's seeing out of a Car's windows if it were
parked in there often enough over years or however long it
may take to add up...

Gasolene as a liquid is not much for flammible...needing to
evaporate into a gasseous form either from some sort of
wick, or otherwise or to be misted or atomised.

One may readily extinguish lit Cigarettes in liquid
Gasolene, or in real life one may, even on a hot day, unlike
in the movies where it allways goes "Kuh-whooosh!"

And the cooler or colder the Gasolene is, the less it
bothers itself to evaporate...

But all and all it prefers a decent spark or open flame to
ignite anyway...and a Gas Kiln would do it well if there
were enough fumes of it down low to catch...but the fumes
would have to be pretty heavy...



Love,

Phil
el ve

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lili Krakowski"

Am I missing something? Don't cars have like gasoline in
them no more? And aren't garages full of flammables?

I think most people who use their garages for their kilns
take extreme precautions. Not storing gas cans, cans of
oil, and like that. Making sure the floor is clean of
grease. Taking the veehickles out...

and, thank you Bonnie, I repeat: make sure the insurance
company and the zoning and fire depts. approve.


Lili Krakowski


Be of good courage

Kim Lindaberry on thu 23 dec 04


I don't know about the rest of you, but until recently most of my
vehicles have been on the older side. On two occassions I can remember
of I had two different cars parked out on the street and as I
approached it I could smell gasoline. I got on my hands and knees and
looking under the cars I saw a puddle of gas on the street. There was a
little drip, long pause, and drip. One of them has a leak in the gas
line, the other a fuel pump was going bad. I just don't think it would
be worth taking the chance to park the cars in the garage while the
kiln was firing or had any kind of color from the elements. I think the
garage would/could tend to confine the vapors until they reached an
explosive level if there was such an unexpected fuel leak.


On Dec 23, 2004, at 4:24 AM, pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:

>
>
> The Gasolene in a Car's Gas-Tank, especially when ambient
> Air is cold, is not going to be making any flammible
> evaporates worth mentioning, and certainly none across a
> room or other. If it were enough to worry about, the odor
> would about knock you out right away with no mystery as to
> it's dense chokeing presence.
>
>

pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on thu 23 dec 04


Hi Kim,


Yup...if you can smell it...then that is an indication of it
evaporating...

Me too, so far as older vehicles...

I was being a little matter-of-fact-playful, but I guess, if
I was not smelling any Gasolene when about to fire my
in-the-garage Kiln, I would leave the Car in there. If I did
smell Gasolene, I would - as you indicate having done -
investigate where it was comeing from, and fix it and not
fire yet untill it was (in my mind anyway) safe to do so,
one way or another.

Over time, especially keeping a low level of gas in one's
tank, ambient humidity tends to condense whatever moisture
it has, on the tanks inside top, which condensate rolls down
to the bottom and the Gas floats on top of it. Eventually,
one can end up with a seriously rusted inside bottom tank
that will be quite thin in areas, and these areas eventually
start to weep. I have had some like that, like that when I
got the Car. I got 'em fixed ( remove 'em, clean 'em out
good with heavy strong soaps and gravel or chains and lots
of shaking...boil in Caustic, wash with Acid, and Solder the
hell out of them or add patch panels even as
well...eeeesh...lotsa work...)

Too, it is almost impossible, or is impossible, to catch a
full tank of Gasolene on fire if it is cool. If it is hot,
one can get a little 'poof' thing, a little fantom flame
ball around the filler neck top if no Cap was on, but thats
about all and it would not tend to sustain..

Low or almost empty Tanks are the best candidates for an
explosion, oweing to their mixture of Gasolene vapour in the
room they have of Air.

Old-time welders who got to be old, used to sometimes fill
various kinds of tanks with Dry Ice to work on them with
brazeing or welding or Soldering. Even then, sometimes with
surprises I am told. A bone dry empty Tank even, can
mysteriously contain 'in the pores of the metal' enough
Gasolene molecules to ignite from a flame if the tank is
heated, and kuh-whammo...you get to wake-up somewhere in
next week.

And as you mention also, a Fuel Pump Diaphram can go bad,
and the Gasolene will either dump into the Crankcase
somewhat, or moreso, usualy, come out the pump body
somewhere, which usually, you can smell when driving. The
Flex Hose from the rear mount Tank the one immediately to
the pump if there is one there, or at the side rail the hard
line comes off of, also can go bad sometimes, or connections
of fuel lines may loosen or be loose...allways good to keep
one's nose peeled for such things.


My own preference, were logistics to allow it, would be do
have my Kiln in it's own little Building ( or in a mild
clime, it's own little shed or lean-to) or in an annex of my
Potting Studio, and not inside either my Home or garage as
such.

But if I had it in my Garage, or if I had a Garage, I can
not imagine having enough room in there for a Car anyway.

I have a Car in my Workshop right now on jackstands, Car had
been sitting a long time elsewhere and having it in here
now, it is sure playing hell with me for all the room it
takes up. I decided to drain the Gasolene Tank, and
low-and-behold, got about nine Gallons of Gasolene out of
it, as dark as old port Wine too...been in that Tank since
the early 1950s. Smelled wonderful. I bottled it in plastic
gallon jugs, put 'em outside, and left the lids off so the
outside area would have just that hint of perfume...poured
some of them into the ground for the epa ( just
kidding...well, not kidding, but the ground here,
well...that likely sweetened it up some and improved
it )...so it smells good outside there in that area. Smells
like old Cars.

Good points you mention there Kim...unusual leaks can be a
factor in the scenario...

Allways, somehow, we do best to pay attention...


Phil
el ve



----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim Lindaberry"


> I don't know about the rest of you, but until recently
most of my
> vehicles have been on the older side. On two occassions I
can remember
> of I had two different cars parked out on the street and
as I
> approached it I could smell gasoline. I got on my hands
and knees and
> looking under the cars I saw a puddle of gas on the
street. There was a
> little drip, long pause, and drip. One of them has a leak
in the gas
> line, the other a fuel pump was going bad. I just don't
think it would
> be worth taking the chance to park the cars in the garage
while the
> kiln was firing or had any kind of color from the
elements. I think the
> garage would/could tend to confine the vapors until they
reached an
> explosive level if there was such an unexpected fuel leak.

Steve Slatin on thu 23 dec 04


Code requirements for new construction call for
water heaters, including electrics, in garages to
be installed off the ground. This is because the
presence of gasoline fumes from cars can be sufficient
to cause a fire even with a spark no greater than
that from a thermostat or heat no higher in temp
than a heating coil.

That said, I cannot recollect ever seeing or even
hearing of a fire started that way. As Phil pointed
out, even riding a motorcycle with a gallon of
gasoline conveniently located directly in one's crotch
doesn't seem to lead to disaster TOO frequently ...

Keeping the cars out during firings may be safety
overkill, but safety overkill is not generally a bad
idea. And it's so much cheaper to back the cars out
of the garage a few times a month than to rebuild
after a disastrous fire.

-- Steve Slatin

--- pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:

> Hi Lili, all...
>
>
> Well...unless one were wet-mopping with Gasolene
> (you know,
> to really get that floor spic-'n'-span)

=====
Steve Slatin -- A pig is a jolly companion -- Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt. A pig is a pal, who'll keep your morale, though mountains may
topple and tilt. When they've baffled, bamboozled, and burned you -- When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig -- you may be thrown over By Tabby or Rover, but you'll never go wrong with a pig!



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 24 dec 04


Our cars are in the kiln shed. No ! ! My kiln is in the car shed.
Something tricky happened Monday last. Reversing out of the garage I
notice a line of fluid on the side where I had just filled the screen
wash reservoir. Quick thought, overspill. Continued on my way and
glanced back to see a line of moisture trailing behind me. Stopped and
looked under. Excess dripping. Returned home, parked the car and
collected some of the drips then called the RAA.
The young fellow who came to help looked but the drips had ceased and
did not return when we restarted the. Nor did they return when I drove
the 30 km to his auto shop.. He hoisted the car up and went round
everything with the torch light. Explanation. Modern cars with all
their anti pollution engineering have a device called a "Carbon
Canister". This adsorbs stray petrol fumes form the carburation
system. It eventually fills up as the carbon becomes saturated with
"gas" Under conditions of varying temperature the gas can condense.
Over the years space becomes filled with liquid and can eventually
overflow.
This may be one source of inflammable liquid most of us would never
know about.
The young Mechanic. Was a highschool student of mine twenty three
years ago. Among the best.
Be Safe.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim Lindaberry"
To:
Sent: Friday, 24 December 2004 12:39
Subject: Re: Kiln and cars in garage


> I don't know about the rest of you, but until recently most of my
> vehicles have been on the older side. On two occassions I can
remember
> of I had two different cars parked out on the street and as I
> approached it I could smell gasoline. I got on my hands and knees
and
> looking under the cars I saw a puddle of gas on the street. There
was a
> little drip, long pause, and drip. One of them has a leak in the gas
> line, the other a fuel pump was going bad. I just don't think it
would
> be worth taking the chance to park the cars in the garage while the
> kiln was firing or had any kind of color from the elements. I think
the
> garage would/could tend to confine the vapors until they reached an
> explosive level if there was such an unexpected fuel leak.
>
>
> On Dec 23, 2004, at 4:24 AM, pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > The Gasolene in a Car's Gas-Tank, especially when ambient
> > Air is cold, is not going to be making any flammible
> > evaporates worth mentioning, and certainly none across a
> > room or other. If it were enough to worry about, the odor
> > would about knock you out right away with no mystery as to
> > it's dense chokeing presence.
> >
> >
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

Bob Masta on sat 25 dec 04


Ivor brings up a good point about unsuspected
sources of combustibles. Here's one you
probably never would have guessed: When
I was working on that gas leak auto fire project
for GM back in the early 70s, one of the alternate
fire sources that had to be ruled out early on
is ... radiator fluid! Unlike gasoline, this
apparently *will* burst into flames when it hits
a hot exhaust manifold. True, it's mostly water,
but the water evaporates instantly on the hot
exhaust, and then the remaining antifreeze
bursts into flames. I didn't test this myself,
but this was apparently a well-known problem
to the old-timers. Whodathunkit?



Bob Masta

potsATdaqartaDOTcom

Kate Johnson on sat 25 dec 04


one of the alternate
> fire sources that had to be ruled out early on
> is ... radiator fluid! Unlike gasoline, this
> apparently *will* burst into flames when it hits
> a hot exhaust manifold. True, it's mostly water,
> but the water evaporates instantly on the hot
> exhaust, and then the remaining antifreeze
> bursts into flames. I didn't test this myself,
> but this was apparently a well-known problem
> to the old-timers. Whodathunkit?

Me. My favorite vehicle, an old Nash Rambler station wagon, went up just
like that, 30 years ago. My dad was messing with the coolant lines with the
motor running, and knocked one loose. WHOOSH...french fried Rambler....

Best--Kate

Ivor and Olive Lewis on sun 26 dec 04


Dear Bob Masta,
Technology, the application of Engineering principles to Scientific
discoveries has lead our civilisation into turbid waters of Community
ignorance.
One of the most important skills we are loosing is that of forming
Questions Perhaps out education systems place quantity of content
before mastery of process.
Looking forward to the New Year with an Open Mind.
Best regards,
Ivor