Marcia Selsor on sun 5 dec 04
Lili,
The Sephardic Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492 but they were a
productive and significant part of society from 200 on.
Maimonides was a famous Hebrew philosopher in Cordoba in the 12th C.
Cordoba had the largest library in the world at the time and was a seat
of learning for the Mediterranean world which blended Muslim, Hebrew
and Christian thoughts. It wasn't until the 14-15th C. that intolerance
became the forerunner of the Spanish Inquisition.
Also Portugal was founded in the 1100s because of a split between the
heir of Alfonzo VI to the throne of Castile, Leon and Galicia
who was his daughter Urraca and her half sister Teresa who inherited
Portugal. Both were married to Burgundian Counts and related to Pope
Calixtus. This was during the high point of the Via de Santiago.
Portugal, Castile, Leon and Galicia were under Alfonso VIrule and El
Cid helped conquer Coimbra for Alfonso on central coast of Portugal
away from the Moors.
Interesting about the Portugese. I agree that it may come from the
Arabic or maybe Latin and evolved in the Mediterranean.
I can't help it, I have studied this stuff for decades. I love it!!
Marcia
On Dec 5, 2004, at 8:18 AM, Lili Krakowski wrote:
> This morning I asked Mr K if he would translate a term in his
> Portuguese dictionary for me....I also asked where his Italian dict.
> was. He asked WHY? and I explained the SAGGAR ? and then explained
> what an S is, that it came into English in the xviii century
> according to the Ox. Book of English Etymology, and into written
> English 1839 according to OED.
>
> I added that I was pretty sure that, since saggars are used blah blah
> blah, I expected the word to be Mediterranean.
> and because of maiolica.
>
> "Did you check the Hebrew dictionary?" he axed. "No," I answered
> scooting out the door.
>
> Ok. Hebrew word SaGaR (Samekh) inn the Sephardic pronunciation.
> Means to close and enclose (with supplementary word)
>
> The Krakowski Supposition is that the same word root exists in Arabic,
> and entered the vocabulary thataway.
>
> I also found in the Portuguese dictionary that there is a latin word
> saga which was some piece of armor that seems to have been a shin
> guard.
>
> 1. Yes, it is to be guessed that Jeff's last name comes from that
> letter. 2. Malcolm, Louis, Shula, let's get with it, please.3. Lee
> I know less than zero about Arab traders with Japan-- but someone must
> know, and there must be Arabic words that found their way into
> Japanese (and vice versa)
>
> Shalom u'bracha
>
> Lili Krakowski
>
>
> Be of good courage
>
Lili Krakowski on sun 5 dec 04
This morning I asked Mr K if he would translate a term in his Portuguese =
dictionary for me....I also asked where his Italian dict. was. He asked =
WHY? and I explained the SAGGAR ? and then explained what an S is, =
that it came into English in the xviii century according to the Ox. =
Book of English Etymology, and into written English 1839 according to =
OED.
I added that I was pretty sure that, since saggars are used blah blah =
blah, I expected the word to be Mediterranean.
and because of maiolica. =20
"Did you check the Hebrew dictionary?" he axed. "No," I answered =
scooting out the door. =20
Ok. Hebrew word SaGaR (Samekh) inn the Sephardic pronunciation. Means =
to close and enclose (with supplementary word)
=20
The Krakowski Supposition is that the same word root exists in Arabic, =
and entered the vocabulary thataway. =20
I also found in the Portuguese dictionary that there is a latin word =
saga which was some piece of armor that seems to have been a shin guard.
1. Yes, it is to be guessed that Jeff's last name comes from that =
letter. 2. Malcolm, Louis, Shula, let's get with it, please.3. Lee I =
know less than zero about Arab traders with Japan-- but someone must =
know, and there must be Arabic words that found their way into Japanese =
(and vice versa)
Shalom u'bracha
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Lee Love on mon 6 dec 04
The Japanese characters can be read using UTF8
I looked most of it up at the Breen dictionary site:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html
Lili Krakowski wrote:
>1. Yes, it is to be guessed that Jeff's last name comes from that letter. 2. Malcolm, Louis, Shula, let's get with it, please.3. Lee I know less than zero about Arab traders with Japan-- but someone must know, and there must be Arabic words that found their way into Japanese (and vice versa)
>
>
There was a Soviet ATGM called the Sagger. Don't know what it means in
Russian, but the Egyptians used these rockets to great effect during the
1973 war.
I don't know if さや (saya) is the traditional name for sagger here, or
a modern adaptation from english/portugese/dutch/german. If Japan got
anything from Arab traders, it was through Koreans, Chinese or
Mongolians (The big horses of the Akita region are said to be brought
there by mongolians, from Arabia.) And in the Chinese, they don't tend
to keep the pronunciation, but find characters that equal the function
described. In Japanese, the Chinese characters have both Japonized
Chinese pronunciation and Japanese pronunciation:
匣鉢 pronounced **さや (saya ) This can mean sheath like sword sheath
匣 character for box read more here:
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=5323
鉢 character for bowl. you can read more here:
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=9262
in Bizen, the Chinese pronunciation is used ぼし (boshi)
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/ WEB LOG
http://public.fotki.com/togeika/ Photos!
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