Url Krueger on mon 27 sep 04
Some time ago there were several posts about
underpricing and how it's not fair to do it.
I'm still trying to sort this one out.
Suppose three potters set up booths at the fair;
Me, You and a very good and famous potter I will
call "C" . Assume we
all have mugs for sale.
I know my mugs are not that great so I put a price
of $5 on them. Yours are much better and you set
your price at $25. "C" uses their customary price
of $50.
At the end of the day:
I have sold 20 mugs X $5 = $100.
You have sold 4 mugs X $25 = $100.
C sold 2 mugs X $50 = $100.
Would you consider this to be fair?
Am I underpricing you? Are you underpricing C?
Or should we all set our price at $25, in which
case maybe I sell 0, you sell 2 and C sells 10.
Is this fair?
Now, let's say that you and I both make mugs of equal
quality and artistic merit and that I can make a
reasonable profit by selling my mugs at $10 but
you need to have $20 to make it worth your while.
Would you consider I was underpricing and not being
fair?
What does "fair" pricing mean, anyway?
How does this relate to us being "friendly" (or not)
competitors?
Trying to understand...
--
Earl K...
Bothell WA, USA
"You may be disappointed if you fail,
but you are doomed if you don't try."
Beverly Sills (1929 - )
John Rodgers on tue 28 sep 04
I know this has always been a sticky issue for some, but I don't worry
about pricing in someone else booth..
I know what it costs me to make my product and get it to market, and I
know what I have to sell it for to make a profit. So I set my price
without consideration of my fellow potters work. The thing I have found
about pottery and clay work in general is that more often than not, my
marketing is what makes the difference between a sale and no sale, not
my neighbors prices. Presentation of product, both in display and in
the sales pitch, plus quality of product, works on the psychology of the
customer, and this is the key. I can't begin to tell how many times I
have had a buyer tell me "I like your work better that the other's
because..........". It's that "because" that I really listen to. Those
people are telling me what qualities in my work prompted them to buy
from me instead of from someone else. I work on that information and try
to work those factors into whatever I make.
Over time, with this kind of feedback from buyers, I have developed my
line, and it is pretty successful. I do not try to make some of
everything. I have narrowed it down to those things that sell well for
me. I don't make mugs. No profit in it for me. I let the other potters
make the mugs. My time is better spent making the stuff that really
works for me. I now specialize almost exclusively in bowls, platters,
and bean pots. When I am an experimental mood, I may make something
else, but I do it for me, not for my production. And if I decide to sell
that experimental item, well, so be it. But my line is the bowls,
platters and bean pots. Some would think that extremely boring, but I
don't. It works for me. When I go to a show, I don't consider the other
clay persons as competitors whose work I have to price my stuff to
match. My things are unique, in that they are made only by me. Buy my
bowl, take home a piece of the artist. I tell a story, relate to the
work, and the buyer will remember it forever in relation to their purchase.
One of the nice things about being a studio potter is that each of us is
unique, and our work reflects that uniqueness. No two potters are ever
going to have exactly the same product. Similar forms, perhaps, but
never identical product. There will always be distinctions. For this
reason I stay away from situations where price is driving my sales.
Typically, my prices on average are usually more than others selling
similar forms. And I do well.
I learned a hard lesson many years ago, when building houses. I was
building modest little homes, and I got ok sales, but was working my
backside off. Very often I was told by real estate sales people and
home buyers that my houses were very good quality and had "very good
prices". I began to realize I was being told in a backhanded way my
prices were low, therefore a good bargain.
Hmmm, I have "very good prices", but I'm working my backside off, just
making it. I made some changes. I cut my floor plan variety down to 3,
added a few small features that I could really talk about, like solid
wood one piece door jams instead of finger joint door jambs, and I
pointed these out in my sales pitch, and I increased my prices 15%. My
sales increased!!! The increased price increased the perceived value
and my sales increased. So did my profit margin, which was good. This
lesson I apply to my clay work. I am very careful about application of
low prices as a strategy to increase sales. Often doesn't work. I price
for what I have to get to make a living for me. I don't worry about the
other guy. He has his own set of problems.
Just my experience.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Url Krueger wrote:
>Some time ago there were several posts about
>underpricing and how it's not fair to do it.
>I'm still trying to sort this one out.
>
>Suppose three potters set up booths at the fair;
>Me, You and a very good and famous potter I will
>call "C" . Assume we
>all have mugs for sale.
>
>I know my mugs are not that great so I put a price
>of $5 on them. Yours are much better and you set
>your price at $25. "C" uses their customary price
>of $50.
>
>At the end of the day:
> I have sold 20 mugs X $5 = $100.
> You have sold 4 mugs X $25 = $100.
> C sold 2 mugs X $50 = $100.
>Would you consider this to be fair?
>Am I underpricing you? Are you underpricing C?
>
>Or should we all set our price at $25, in which
>case maybe I sell 0, you sell 2 and C sells 10.
>Is this fair?
>
>
>Now, let's say that you and I both make mugs of equal
>quality and artistic merit and that I can make a
>reasonable profit by selling my mugs at $10 but
>you need to have $20 to make it worth your while.
>Would you consider I was underpricing and not being
>fair?
>
>What does "fair" pricing mean, anyway?
>
>How does this relate to us being "friendly" (or not)
>competitors?
>
>Trying to understand...
>
>--
>Earl K...
>Bothell WA, USA
>"You may be disappointed if you fail,
>but you are doomed if you don't try."
> Beverly Sills (1929 - )
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
John Baymore on tue 28 sep 04
Has anyone ever tracked the cyclic timing of the topic repeats on
CLAYART? The same topics come up and get rehashed year after year. I
am serious about wondering what the "period is for this, and if it is
somewhat regular.
Anyway....... back "on topic"......
Being a bit of a student of business.... I have read a lot of texts on
marketing and business management and such. One phrase from a very astute
business "guru" type guy ("In Search of Excellence", "Thriving On Chaos")
named Tom Peters has been a guiding force of mine for a very long
time.......
"Sell on quality, not on price."
best,
................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http://www.JohnBaymore.com
Eleanora Eden on wed 29 sep 04
I had a neighbor this summer at a big fair who had prices very much lower
than mine. Her work very simple, mine very complex. But still I thought
her prices were ridiculously low. I also thought that I was making sales
for her constantly as people wanted something from me that cost (let's say)
$80 and then saw her selling a similar size for $20. I did note that her
larger stuff was way out of proportion price-wise with her smaller stuff,
and actually too expensive rather than too inexpensive, to my mind.
But then at the end of the fair she asked me about her pricing, complaining
that she wasn't making enough money. SOOOOOOO, I gently proposed that the
prices of most of her stuff could use some significant shoving up and it
would probably not impact her sales as even at double she would still be
competitive with people doing similar work at this fair. So we will see
how that goes.......
I wouldn't have said a thing if she hadn't directly requested it.....I
figured if she was happy with it that was her problem but she isn't. So
you can never assume anything, as usual.
Eleanora
kieran stack on wed 29 sep 04
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:35:31 -0400, John Baymore
wrote:
>Has anyone ever tracked the cyclic timing of the topic repeats on
>CLAYART? The same topics come up and get rehashed year after
year. <g> I
>am serious about wondering what the "period is for this, and if it is
>somewhat regular.
>
>Anyway....... back "on topic"......
>
>
>Being a bit of a student of business.... I have read a lot of texts on
>marketing and business management and such. One phrase from
a very astute
>business "guru" type guy ("In Search of Excellence", "Thriving On
Chaos")
>named Tom Peters has been a guiding force of mine for a very long
>time.......
>
>"Sell on quality, not on price."
>
>
>best,
>
>................john
>
>John Baymore
>River Bend Pottery
>22 Riverbend Way
>Wilton, NH 03086 USA
>
>JBaymore@compuserve.com
>http://www.JohnBaymore.com
>
>_____________________________________________________
_________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
More information please.... "sell on quality not on price"
Darlene Yarnetsky-Mudcat Pottery on wed 29 sep 04
I can remember about 5 years back we ran into a real estate broker who
we had previously rented. We were in the middle of a ridiculous show
schedule and were remarking that I was having trouble keeping up with
demand. He suggested I double my prices. It was like a lightbulb went
on in my head. Instead of working like crazy, and selling volume I
could slow down a little and still make a profit.
While I didn't double the prices, I did up them on the pieces that were
flying out of the booth. Sure enough, keeping up was less of a problem
and my sales actually increased. Activity in my booth lessened, which
seemed strange at first, but my customers if anything spent more time
looking at my word and choosing their pieces.
Claywork varies so much that we are never really comparing apples to
apples. We all work differently.
I had a friend making baskets once who told me she felt guilty how
much she asked for her baskets when she didn't have so much time in
them as she once did. (they were very well done) The reason she had
less time in them was because she had developed the skills to work
faster. I pointed this out to her and said that these people weren't
just paying for the time she had spent to make one basket, but for all
the years she had spent learning the skills to make that basket well,
and all of the time she had spent developing the designs of her
baskets.
Darlene in Madison, Indiana, USA where we could use some of that rain
you all are hogging on the eastern coast. ;)
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