pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 11 aug 04
how do one handle dems write-offs to chair-uh-tee as well...
Hi Snail, all...
If doing the taxgame thing, an Artist wishing to donate a
Work to some Charity or other, need only find some kindred
other Artist...
And they each 'buy' one-another's work for some made-up
inflated or actual or whatever price they decide on...and,
essentially, (just) trade pieces, (no actual money changed
hands,)...which, each then 'donates' to the
whatever-charity-thing...and then, each claims the big juicy
yassah-massah reciept for the 'write-off' and is, therebye,
just as right-with-the-law, as any poor pilgrim could
stand...
Love,
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snail Scott"
> At 12:16 PM 8/9/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >...lately all these calls
> >from any Tom, Dick and Harry, needing donations to hold a
silent auction
> >is getting on to me...Am
> >I just grumpy of what?
>
>
> Grump away! More artists should, too.
(...some snipping occurs 'here'...)
> The sponsor will usually say that you can deduct
> the value of your donation from your taxes. Well,
> it just ain't so. As the maker, you can only
> deduct the value of materials, and that's what,
> maybe $5.00 tops? (Remember, labor doesn't count,
> and you can deduct materials regardless of whether
> you donate it or not.) The sponsor may truly not
> know this, but if that's the case, then they ought
> to be told, right?
>
> (Ironically, if someone bought your item and then
> donated it themselves, they could deduct the full
> retail value of your creation, but you can't.)
(...then, a really big snip, 'here'..)
> AND you can actually deduct it.
>
> -Snail Scott
Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman on thu 12 aug 04
how do one handle dems write-offs to chair-uh-tee as well...
Hi Phil and other clayarters,
We've been through this before.... if you sell your work at whatever price,
this is income to you. If you buy someone else's pot, perhaps it is a
business expense (advertising for your business when your name appears in
the program or purchased as a pot you need to study to improve your own
work?), but maybe not. If it is a business deduction, and you deduct it on
your US tax return, then the net on your business tax return is zero, and
you're no better off and possibly no worse off (unless you live in an area
with a gross receipts tax, in which case you end up out of pocket as you
remit that gross receipts tax to your local taxing authority. If you deduct
the purchase of the other pot, you have already written off the cost and
cannot claim it a second time, when you donate it.
If you don't deduct the pot you "buy" as a business expense and plan to
deduct it as a charitable contribution, that appears not on your business
tax return, but as an itemized deduction on Schedule A (if you have enough
deductions to exceed the standard deduction), possibly subject to certain
limits, if family income is high enough. Even if you can deduct the full
cost on your Schedule A, you have included additional income, probably
subject to some self-employment tax.
The final word is that this is NOT a way around your not being able to take
a deduction for the retail price of donations of ceramic pieces you make. It
just can't be done legally.
You never get to deduct the value of your time. You only get to deduct the
cost of materials that went into the piece you donated, and presumably you
have already deducted those.
So, Phil, you may want to stop advising people to do this, since it is not
legal and never has been.
Bonnie
Bonnie Hellman, CPA in PA & CO
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: How do one handle donations. - Now, how do one handle dems
write-offs to chair-uh-tee as well...
> Hi Snail, all...
>
>
> If doing the taxgame thing, an Artist wishing to donate a
> Work to some Charity or other, need only find some kindred
> other Artist...
>
> And they each 'buy' one-another's work for some made-up
> inflated or actual or whatever price they decide on...and,
> essentially, (just) trade pieces, (no actual money changed
> hands,)...which, each then 'donates' to the
> whatever-charity-thing...and then, each claims the big juicy
> yassah-massah reciept for the 'write-off' and is, therebye,
> just as right-with-the-law, as any poor pilgrim could
> stand...
>
>
> Love,
>
>
> Phil
> el ve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Snail Scott"
>
>
> > At 12:16 PM 8/9/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> > >...lately all these calls
> > >from any Tom, Dick and Harry, needing donations to hold a
> silent auction
> > >is getting on to me...Am
> > >I just grumpy of what?
> >
> >
> > Grump away! More artists should, too.
>
> (...some snipping occurs 'here'...)
>
> > The sponsor will usually say that you can deduct
> > the value of your donation from your taxes. Well,
> > it just ain't so. As the maker, you can only
> > deduct the value of materials, and that's what,
> > maybe $5.00 tops? (Remember, labor doesn't count,
> > and you can deduct materials regardless of whether
> > you donate it or not.) The sponsor may truly not
> > know this, but if that's the case, then they ought
> > to be told, right?
> >
> > (Ironically, if someone bought your item and then
> > donated it themselves, they could deduct the full
> > retail value of your creation, but you can't.)
>
> (...then, a really big snip, 'here'..)
>
> > AND you can actually deduct it.
> >
> > -Snail Scott
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 13 aug 04
how do one handle dems write-offs to chair-uh-tee as well...
Hi Bonnie!
Oh my !
Well, let me re-phrase.
A Potter who donates their own Work to charity, may only
deduct the value or cost of the materials in the Pot...
That is what was stated as being..the 'problem' of interest.
So...
Two Potters...
Each, instead, electiong to buy eachother's Work, in order
to dontae
said Work to 'charity'...and, as an incidental, then to be
able to deduct the full 'market'
value of the respective items.
Let's say each of them are charging the same price. Each
pays the
other the stated price, (which being a wash, no money would
need to
change hands, but, should someone insist, one hands the
other x
federalreservenotes, and the
other then hands them the same amount of
federalreservenotes, or
they each hand eachothert x-number of
federalreservenotes at the same time...) then, each gets
(or
gives the other, ) a
receipt, and each dutifully
enters into their books, the 'income' they recieved in the
transaction.
Each may write off the value of the price the paid, of the
respective,
donated Pots.
In all occasions the rest of the time, the price of any
given Pot which any given potter has for sale, is, whatever
price
they say it is. No? Yes...
So too in this instance.
Thus, everyone is right with the law...
Now, just what part of what I had said was so confuseing?
Is it that they actually accomplish nothing, or less than
nothing, because the 'income' exceeds
the value of the deduction? And or that it is the
'deduction' which was or is the goal here? with 'charity'
being a convenient means of obtaining it? Only there are
these vexations about how, when one obtains it, it is not
worth obtaining?
Where, they would have been better off deducting the
eighty-cents or
whatever the Pot was, by 'law' actually 'worth'?
And if they forgot, or if their book-keeper forgot, to enter
the 'income' from the transaction, while remembering to
enter the donation for the 'deduction' into their books,
then they should be remourselessly sodomized by gangs of
large weight lifting Negros or Tattoed White neo nazis in
federal Prisons? Or at least for a few years, anyway? Or
untill they suicide, as many do?
Afterall, "Fair's fair!" - ?
Or...?
Now I am getting confused...
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman"
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: How do one handle donations. - Now, how do one
handle dems write-offs to chair-uh-tee as well...
> Hi Phil and other clayarters,
>
> We've been through this before.... if you sell your work
at whatever price,
> this is income to you. If you buy someone else's pot,
perhaps it is a
> business expense (advertising for your business when your
name appears in
> the program or purchased as a pot you need to study to
improve your own
> work?), but maybe not. If it is a business deduction, and
you deduct it on
> your US tax return, then the net on your business tax
return is zero, and
> you're no better off and possibly no worse off (unless you
live in an area
> with a gross receipts tax, in which case you end up out of
pocket as you
> remit that gross receipts tax to your local taxing
authority. If you deduct
> the purchase of the other pot, you have already written
off the cost and
> cannot claim it a second time, when you donate it.
>
> If you don't deduct the pot you "buy" as a business
expense and plan to
> deduct it as a charitable contribution, that appears not
on your business
> tax return, but as an itemized deduction on Schedule A (if
you have enough
> deductions to exceed the standard deduction), possibly
subject to certain
> limits, if family income is high enough. Even if you can
deduct the full
> cost on your Schedule A, you have included additional
income, probably
> subject to some self-employment tax.
>
> The final word is that this is NOT a way around your not
being able to take
> a deduction for the retail price of donations of ceramic
pieces you make. It
> just can't be done legally.
>
> You never get to deduct the value of your time. You only
get to deduct the
> cost of materials that went into the piece you donated,
and presumably you
> have already deducted those.
>
> So, Phil, you may want to stop advising people to do this,
since it is not
> legal and never has been.
>
> Bonnie
> Bonnie Hellman, CPA in PA & CO
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:48 PM
> Subject: Re: How do one handle donations. - Now, how do
one handle dems
> write-offs to chair-uh-tee as well...
>
>
> > Hi Snail, all...
> >
> >
> > If doing the taxgame thing, an Artist wishing to donate
a
> > Work to some Charity or other, need only find some
kindred
> > other Artist...
> >
> > And they each 'buy' one-another's work for some made-up
> > inflated or actual or whatever price they decide
on...and,
> > essentially, (just) trade pieces, (no actual money
changed
> > hands,)...which, each then 'donates' to the
> > whatever-charity-thing...and then, each claims the big
juicy
> > yassah-massah reciept for the 'write-off' and is,
therebye,
> > just as right-with-the-law, as any poor pilgrim could
> > stand...
> >
> >
> > Love,
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > el ve
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Snail Scott"
> >
> >
> > > At 12:16 PM 8/9/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >...lately all these calls
> > > >from any Tom, Dick and Harry, needing donations to
hold a
> > silent auction
> > > >is getting on to me...Am
> > > >I just grumpy of what?
> > >
> > >
> > > Grump away! More artists should, too.
> >
> > (...some snipping occurs 'here'...)
> >
> > > The sponsor will usually say that you can deduct
> > > the value of your donation from your taxes. Well,
> > > it just ain't so. As the maker, you can only
> > > deduct the value of materials, and that's what,
> > > maybe $5.00 tops? (Remember, labor doesn't count,
> > > and you can deduct materials regardless of whether
> > > you donate it or not.) The sponsor may truly not
> > > know this, but if that's the case, then they ought
> > > to be told, right?
> > >
> > > (Ironically, if someone bought your item and then
> > > donated it themselves, they could deduct the full
> > > retail value of your creation, but you can't.)
> >
> > (...then, a really big snip, 'here'..)
> >
> > > AND you can actually deduct it.
> > >
> > > -Snail Scott
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
Kathy Forer on sat 14 aug 04
how do one handle dems write-offs to chair-uh-tee as well...
On Aug 13, 2004, at 3:19 PM, pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
> Let's say each of them are charging the same price. Each pays the
> other the stated price, (which being a wash, no money would need to
> change hands, but, should someone insist, one hands the other x
> federalreservenotes, and the other then hands them the same amount of
> federalreservenotes, or they each hand eachothert x-number of
> federalreservenotes at the same time...) then, each gets (or gives
> the other, ) a receipt, and each dutifully enters into their books,
> the 'income' they recieved in the transaction.
Isn't that one of the things Enron is accused of doing -- but without
the charitable intent? A kind of "ricochet"?
--
Kathy Forer
| |
|
