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french fry fuel as kiln oil - ben's mentions...(one-of-two...)

updated sat 31 jul 04


pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 2 aug 04

Hi Ben, Ivor, all interested parties...


(me)Thanks Ben (and Ivor,) for continueing the thread on is have lots of good

S'more back-n-forth below...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben"

(ye)Some thoughts on fuels and sustainability:
>Stick with the discarded Cafe oil.< [- say'd Ivor,
kindly...and Ben seconds the motion...]
All the way. Just don't eat the french fries.

(me) Okay - I won't eat the French-Frys, or the nubs...don't
Maybe if they were nice-n-fresh, & with a Sandwhich, but
rarely at
that...but not if sodden
and lolling around on the
bottom of the used
Oil...I'd just as soon boils an old 'shoe' or sumpthin',

(ye)Waste oil is full of all kinds of nasty stuff.

(me)...'restaurants' too...and...for that matter, the whole
society in which it is produced, is, too...and...see
'pre-schools' for a virtual 'test-tube' of bio-hazard
Let alone 'hospitals' and 'nursing homes' and public schools
and doorknobs on public buildings, and the outside of that
'ketchup-bottle' at 'dennys' and so on where ye
set-it-back-down & then rub yer 'eye' or other, and...

(me, again, or, alternate response of :) Yea...I guess
so....sigh...but you know, I
loved the smell of really old, used Gear Oil, like in really
old junk
yards, where the very ground is saturated with many decades
of it...
especially all
old Spurr Gear Transmissions and various Differentials
seeping 90 and 140
weight...for me, it is a kind of a 'perfume' is
well, I have my
own old Cars
for that I suppose...just that little dab behind the
ear or on one's wrist if goin' out on a 'date' or

(ye)But Canola's not much better (at least not to eat).
used to call it rapeseed oil but everyone knew it was
inedible so in the forties or fifties somebody came up with
a great marketing ploy and renamed it Canola- for Canada oil
as it's grown extensively up there.

(me)Hmmm...interesting, I did not know that...but,
'Can-oleo' would have had a more musical mood...

(me) I did know that the old brand of Soap, 'Palmolive'
derives from it (at one time anyway) being made from the
Oils of 'Palm', and, of 'Olive'...and not everyone seems to
know that...

(ye) It's better for
industrial lube, polymer base or - fuel. Was it George
Washington Carver who came up with 140something uses for
peanut oil?

(me) - Well, uses for the different parts of the "Peanut'
anyway...or, the
'Goober-Pea' some would have it...

(There was a song I think by uhhhhh,
whatsisname, errrr... he had a 1947 'Kaiser'
Travel-Something Station-Wagon and...played the
Guitar...had a 'goatee'...anyway, about
"Peas, peas, Peas, peas...Eatin' Goober Peas...Goodness how
delightful...eatin' Goober Peas..." and so
on...what-the-hells-his-name??? "Burl Ives"...!!!! - whew!
I thought I would not remember in time for this

(ye)Most of them were essentially homegrown

(me) When I was once thinking of going to 'college', in like
1970, the only one I wanted TO go to was 'Tuskegee', and
people just got 'mad' or made fun of me for saying so when
pressed about it...if
I had it over to do, I woulda done 'that'...oh well...a mite
late now I recon...

(me) Too, there was a lot done with 'Soybeans' way back
when...'Buttons' for one thing, as well as various
proto-plastics of sorts, alternates to Celluloid and so
on...turn-of-the-Century and World War
One era stuff, and lots of
'twenties and 'thirties era clothes had 'Soybean Process'
deteriorate unfortunately if in a close proximity to Moth
Balls...sigh...get that 'sugary' way about them and crumble
to whitish dust even though the Buttons themselves were a
nice 'Hershey' Chocolate color or lighter Maple-Sugar sort
of 'Amber' or
Black...otherwise they hold up just dandy...for-ever,
more-or-less...have a nice
look to 'em too...once you know their look, you can spot
'em...long gone never see 'em on anything past the
early the latest...

(ye)But Fuel : most of the inhabitable earth
revcieves an average of 300W per square meter during full

(me) But not 'Seattle, Washington'..or 'Cincinnati, Ohio' I
gather...they tend to be...well, somewhat in-the-shade...

(ye) 400w peak in the summer. per square meter!!!!!!!!

(me) Yes...if I owned the right property 'here', I'd have
Solar for my Agua-Calliente you may be sure. AND for some
Electricity as well most Electroplateing with
it or some electrolysis of some kind or
would be easy
enough too...this place is

(ye) I dont think man has touched a solar
that's more efficient than a plant. (the wood firers are
just waiting for us to catch on.) Even that petrol's just
stored sunlight...

(me) Yes...quite 'so'...( even as with Ol' King 'Coal'
once were so many nodding 'ferns' and what...)

(ye)... anyway
If you dig into it the Germans have an optimum blend of
biofuel oil. Certain percentage each of Safflower, Canola,
Sunflower etc. The Italians have done extensive research on
oil crop as far as gallons per acre and input costs. I
think they concluded sunflower was the best and canola was
an enviromental hazard based on a high nitrogen requirement
(i.e. hosing the fields down with ammonia every year. oh
dear this is starting to sound like Science)

(mim) Yup...sounds about right. The Germans were making
synthetic Rubber too, before-&-during "the war"...they had
lots-o'-Science stuff going for them...mighta tried
squeezin' out
some 'gypsie' and 'history-professor' and 'poet' and 'pole'
and mental-institution-incarceree
and non-air-eee-un-what-not-other (or whoever, air-eee-un or
not, as had not joined 'em, or had not the operatively
'right' obsequies to proffer, or
as was other than what they
wanted TO join 'em of )
'Oil' too for all I know...they were 'busy' anyway...all
sorts of stuff...lots of 'experiments' and so on ...the
'Science' fellows as slipped (well, were 'pulled',) through
cracks in the Nuremburg 'trials' all got 'good jobs'
anyway, I don't want no one getting mad at me again for
bringing 'that'

(me) We still have 'Neat's Foot Oil'...Neat being a
vestigual fragment of our long ago English I think, for
'Bovine'...(even as Pine was once called 'Deal'...but

(me s'more) ...well, I figured if I were to end up
as has a
coldish Winter, I'd like to be able to heat my Shop in some
affordable way...and too, to run my Kiln and maybe a
smallish smelter for some occasional Metal Casting
forays...a Forge, too, most likely...maybe finally do that
'Solar' stuff as well...or a Windmill or something...can't
do nuthin' "here"...but live about like 'Ann Frank'
did...sigh...'cept for the 'diary' part anyway...

(me) "Hopes deferred, as..."

(ye) Actually Rudolph Deisel designed the engine named after
so the farmer could grow his own fuel.

(me) Well, maybe that part was more an incidental...far as I
remember, I think his
design was more based on
the notion of compressing the charge of fuel and Air to so
high a degree, that the heat of the Air being compressed
would be the ignition source for the fuel. The rest, I'd
think was the mid 1890s when he was doing this, there
was very very little going on with internal combustion
Engines being used for anything, no electrical Spark Plugs
yet as were worth a damn
for supplanting
the Platinum 'tube' with the heating-flame on it as they
used to use then...making 'do' with lousy Carburetors
designs that were really very
nothing much
going on with anyone growing or
supplying their own fuel for anything like them.

Henry Ford was something of a dreamer on the 'Small Farmer'
score you
know too...from early on...eventually makeing the
"Fordson' Tractor and all...give the Horses and harnesses a
others too worked on the notion of a 'simple', inexpensive
and rugged little Gasolene Tractor for the 'small' Farm.
Many did actually offer their own versions..."Case"..."Holt"
on and on...'Holt' made all their own everything too for a
long time...I admire them a lot...Benjamin Holt ( "Holt"
things later on being
called 'Cat-a-pillar') was an early Gasolene
Engine proponent too...and was an inventor and proponent of
'Endless Tred' notion for self propelled Machines not to be
sinking into loamy or soft soils...

There were plenty of fine, Big, Steam
'Traction Engines' too, for doing all sorts of Farm things
those as could afford one, or as wanted one...for 'Big'
Farms anyway, or
collectives or free-lancers making the
rounds and getting it payed-off in installments...running
wide flat belts for threshers, puling long Wagons or other fact they used one North of here at one time for
the 'Borax', but the 20 Mule Teams were better at it, it
turned out...and on
and on...the Steam Traction Engines
were wonderful...majestic...mythic...they had
spectacle...a tremedous presence...I love them...they ran
on Wood or Coal or Kerosene or other may
according to what
kind they were and all...I loved them so much when I was a
kid, I could kneel down next to one and weep...maybe

The grow-yer-own fuel for Diesel is a swell idea...would
well for Steam too, but Steam, is not so thermo-dynamically
'effecient' as
the Diesel...but it sure has more makes one
proud of what we can do...and had the right ambience and
for some things. Steam Traction Engines and Locomotives and
large Steam Ships are some of the almost enough to
make it seem like our species had really amounted to
something, or,
for a while anyway, had come 'close'...

(me still, blathering on...) Kerosene or 'Coal Oil' was big
Lamps...and for some Engines to run on also...wherein, old
man 'rockafeller' ( who later in 'life' looked just like
'King Tut's Mummy' ) saved more Whales
from people-mischiefs
Greenpeace ever will, but not that he gave a damn or
intended to...)
In them days, Gasolene was still being sold
in small corked bottles for 'spot remover' and cleaning up
stains or black 'heel' marks
on Linoleum or Tile or Marble or was not a 'fuel'
of note
yet for any
internal combustion or other Engines particularly, or less
so than say Naphta or Benzene or Ethyl Alcohol was...

The early 'Otto' Engines run on 'Oil of Mirbane' I think,
then more-or-less Benzene mixtures of some kind, or maybe
and something so far as I was
still the Golden Age of Steam anyway, and, Diesel's Engine,
he ( Diesel)
knew, could eventually
well for itself in situations where someone might prefer it
to having a much bulkier and a more sophisticated to run
set-up for Industrial settings and heavy duty deals...but
then the same was true enough of the 'Otto' Engine anyway,
at the time...more-or-less...for some things...smaller
things...and the Diesel Engine needed a 'heavy' fuel to run
on lest it pre-detonate and not run at the 'Oils'
more-or-less, were it's fuel...

(ye) They really teched
this out. They even have a blend for lubrication.

( me) That would interest me...I will look into that...that
sounds nice if it came 'back' finally...

(me still...) Vegetable Oils were used too in the Crank
Cases of
Gasolene and Steam Automobiles, of Aviation and other
up through
the 'twenties
even...and were preferred, but being more costly generally
than the petroleum based ones...did not enjoy the same
degree of
popularity...Castor Bean Oil having been a favorite for
Crank Case

(more me blathering...) As was Ethyl Alcohol ( before uncle
scam taxed the living hell out of it) , Benzene,
Naphta, Acetone, and various 'blends' of them with or
without some 'Nito' thing sometimes, for fuel...or blends of
them with Hi-quality Gasolene.
Although Gasolene was
generally very high quality compared to what qualifies now.
Had a much higher Specific Gravity...

Ever so much 'cleaner' burning...and burned cleaner in the
Cars 'then', than it was to do decades later, becoming a
and more fiddled-with and ever increasingly
'heavier', cheaper in quality, lower grade, 'heavier'
product...yer average Car of the late 'ohs, 'teens or
'twenties run cleaner on it's own old time 'Gasolene' than
the new ones were doing in the late '70s with all that
'smog' crap on 'em...

Many Books of the period go into
this in detail...if your Gasolene did NOT evaporate quickly
at room temperature and leave NO colored scum or residue, it
was 'low grade' junk and to be avoided...try that is like 'glue'...the gas now can get an
stuck as solid as if it were glued that way...or a Carb, if
you shut 'er down and let it sit a year or something with
this low grade crap in it as we get from the pumps now...

(ye) But..this'll grab you.. Rudolph Deisel was a German

(me) So was just about every

(ye) His motive: to free the fatherland from dependence on
foreign oil and unstable mid east(read:global) politics.

(me) Well, he died I think in like 1913 or so, or
disappeared or something from a Ship-at-Sea was it?,
this part does
not make sense to me...
I don't think there was any particular foreign 'Oil' in the
1890s or the
'00s for
Germany or
anyone to wish to be freed of a dependance on yet, nor was
any dependance anyone had on any mid-east anything but
'Frankensense' and 'Muhrr' maybe...or at least that I know
not mid-east 'foreign' Oil at any rate, not
then, not yet anyway...hell, in Aegypt and there-abouts,
they were still burning 'mummys' in the fireboxes of Steam
Locomotives 'cause they were cheaper than Wood...but
later thinking on the matter, certainly would have thought
differently on this...

So far as I know, there were no 'unstable mid east politics'
concerning Oil,
nor any troubles in Araby as
amounted to anything anyone else cared about much, 'then'.

I think some small time Shiek or other grabbed an American
Woman and
her kid during Teddy Roosevelt's presidency, and President
forthwith sent some Armored Dreadnaught Steam Ships or
other to
to somewhere over there - with contingents of
Marines or Cavalry, anyway,
settle that indescretion. Them khacki wrapped leggings and
twill breeches and wide, straw-colored, Mills'-Belts and
'Gilette-Blue-Blade' Blue Mdl. '97 Winchester 'Riot-Length'
12 Gauge pump-action external Hammer Shotguns and snappy
30-40 Springfield Crags...

Not the ugly-assed techy plastic garbage we/they have now...

Worked out just dandy, her and the kid back and
conveyed the
operationally correct instruction that one best not mess
American Citizens abroad, or elsewhere...'Period'...

We got a whole lot of no self respect TO 'defend' now 'class'...just lotsa posture and deciet and
hypocracy to
huff about. And lotsa high ground no more, and
nothing other than
bullshit to be all huffy about...

City Parks still had 'Suza' bands on
'Sundays'...'then'...where now we have disused needles in
the grass, squishy-under-foot-condoms, teetering crack
projectile diahrhea on park benches, narrow side glances of
smoulderingly self conscious resentful mexican "ooom-pah"
piles of bent beer-can music or and ghetto blasters
blaring out prison bitch-cred 'rap'...

The cool 'American' stuff's long gone now...sheeesh...that
kind of
gallantry and
accoutremon and esprit...'twill'...jeeeeze, endlessly
various of
'gone' we got 'polyester'...


(ye) Sound familiar? So after WWII everthing stalled out
because.... unstable, or rather semi stabilised, mid
east(read:global) politics.

(mim) Well, by, world War Two it had all turned to crap
anyway, as far as I can tell...'Civilization' was a hollow
pretense by then, if the term was or is even evoked at
all...and, it
is anyway...'evoked'...

By world-war-two, Civilization was

(me)At least at the time of 'Lawrence' say, or Isabelle
Eberhardt...or those stubby-muzzled
.303 Enfields and good looking sleek 'tea-cup-nose' Horses
and Sabers and
and so

Or all sorts of old time timeless Araby stuff
against that Azure Sky and Palm Tree'd
Oasises and all...well,
was still some sense
of Romance to it all...thin Cotton robes furlin' in the
breezes...golly...totally cool...

Not much now...not much at all...for Romance...

See that 'Berg' or the 'Johnson' or the Kim-Sun-li or
whatever-his-name-was video for an update on how Romantic it
become...sheeeesh...what a buncha crude and ignorant hacks
( us and
whoever the hell 'us' and 'them' are anyway, and I do not
quite seem to know, so...)

But as fer dem 'soybeans' and grow yer own Diesel..?

I am all for it...all-day-long...

(end of part one)

Best wishes,

el ve