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throwing off the hump

updated sat 13 dec 03

 

Chris Clyburn on mon 24 nov 03


Ok I have a question,

When I first started throwing off the hump, I threw thick heavy pieces. Then
I began getting into sculptural forms throwing and quit throwing off the
hump. Now that I am getting more and more interested in functional wares in
addition to my sculptural pieces I am starting to throw off the hump again
for speeds sake. Now the problem is I have become obsessed with thin forms
and thick ones just don't do it for me. When I throw off the hump thinly and
try and remove the piece, the rim distorts, which is not asthetically
appealing for me (I'm very obssessive about throwing perfectly symetrical
pieces) I throw with a heavily grogged stoneware (Laguna's Big White.)

Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling myself that
it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and my
professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to throw
thick heavy forms.

Any ideas, suggestions?

Thanks,
Chris Clyburn

Craig Dunn Clark on mon 24 nov 03


Chris, the thing that works for me is to leave a good heavy base on the
piece (that I trim down to a nice foot ring), a nice fleshy lip at the top
(helps things remain concentric) and to make sure that you are using your
string tool so that the bottom of the pot is flat.
When removing the piece spread your forefinger and middle fingers as
wide as you are able, craddle the piece, and with a slight twisting motion
remove it from the hump. Quickly transfer it to flat surface (I use wooden
boards like 2x6's about 6 foot long when doing a run of bowls) to stiffen
up. "Goose" the bottom a bit if it is not quite round and flip it over after
the rim is stiff enough.
Hope this helps
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Clyburn"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 11:23 PM
Subject: Throwing off the hump


> Ok I have a question,
>
> When I first started throwing off the hump, I threw thick heavy pieces.
Then
> I began getting into sculptural forms throwing and quit throwing off the
> hump. Now that I am getting more and more interested in functional wares
in
> addition to my sculptural pieces I am starting to throw off the hump again
> for speeds sake. Now the problem is I have become obsessed with thin forms
> and thick ones just don't do it for me. When I throw off the hump thinly
and
> try and remove the piece, the rim distorts, which is not asthetically
> appealing for me (I'm very obssessive about throwing perfectly symetrical
> pieces) I throw with a heavily grogged stoneware (Laguna's Big White.)
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
> removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling myself
that
> it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and my
> professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to
throw
> thick heavy forms.
>
> Any ideas, suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Clyburn
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

Lee Love on mon 24 nov 03


Hi Chris,

Are you trimming your work? If so, leave a thicker portion of
clay at the base of the form to carry the stress of lifting.

Working at my teacher's workshop, where we did rope impression on
the work, I learned not to be troubled by distortion. On the yunomi,
pressing the rope in the clay always distorted it a little. You can
always reshape the clay after you are done.


--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
http://Mashiko.org
Web Log (click on recent date):
http://www.livejournal.com/users/togeika/calendar

Mr. and Mrs. Overall on mon 24 nov 03


When I observe V. Chin from Seabrook, Texas throw off the hump, he leaves a pretty solid substantial base to pick up the piece after wiring it free from the hump. He trims away the excess, but his VERY THIN porcelain pieces don't warp. He's awesome to watch and listen to. He attends the Texas Clay Festival in Gruene every October and looks like he usually sells out.

Kim Overall

Chris Clyburn wrote:
Ok I have a question,

When I first started throwing off the hump, I threw thick heavy pieces. Then
I began getting into sculptural forms throwing and quit throwing off the
hump. Now that I am getting more and more interested in functional wares in
addition to my sculptural pieces I am starting to throw off the hump again
for speeds sake. Now the problem is I have become obsessed with thin forms
and thick ones just don't do it for me. When I throw off the hump thinly and
try and remove the piece, the rim distorts, which is not asthetically
appealing for me (I'm very obssessive about throwing perfectly symetrical
pieces) I throw with a heavily grogged stoneware (Laguna's Big White.)

Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling myself that
it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and my
professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to throw
thick heavy forms.

Any ideas, suggestions?

Thanks,
Chris Clyburn

______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org

You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/

Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

Michael Wendt on mon 24 nov 03


See the cutoff tool near the bottom of the page at
http://www.wendtpottery.com/supply.htm
and see the clay softness test report at
http://www.wendtpottery.com/claytest.htm .
I throw primarily off the hump. The cut off stick I use permits thin forms
of nearly any size to be picked up while the wheel is still turning. Tony
Ferguson also mentioned this technique. The cutoff tool is a 1.25" wide by
11"long by 16 gauge thick "knife" of stainless steel. The lead edge is
ground sharp and then blunted slightly to avoid cuts. As the wheel turns the
water laden cutoff tool is advanced quickly into the desired cut off
location resulting in a nearly finished bottom with just a small tear button
near the center that must be removed by trimming later. The stick is half
under the piece when the cutoff is done so the thin pieces are supported
quite well.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com

In reply to:
Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling myself that
it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and my
professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to throw
thick heavy forms.

Any ideas, suggestions?

Thanks,
Chris Clyburn

Darnie Sizemore on mon 24 nov 03


My suggestion is to invest in a propane torch, heat gun or hair dryer. When you have completed the form, use one of these implements to dry the piece slightly. Then you can remove the piece without distortion. There are also metal tools that have handles that are designed for taking pieces off the bat, you may want to try these.

Good Luck,
Darnie

Chris Clyburn wrote:
Ok I have a question,

When I first started throwing off the hump, I threw thick heavy pieces. Then
I began getting into sculptural forms throwing and quit throwing off the
hump. Now that I am getting more and more interested in functional wares in
addition to my sculptural pieces I am starting to throw off the hump again
for speeds sake. Now the problem is I have become obsessed with thin forms
and thick ones just don't do it for me. When I throw off the hump thinly and
try and remove the piece, the rim distorts, which is not asthetically
appealing for me (I'm very obssessive about throwing perfectly symetrical
pieces) I throw with a heavily grogged stoneware (Laguna's Big White.)

Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling myself that
it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and my
professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to throw
thick heavy forms.

Any ideas, suggestions?

Thanks,
Chris Clyburn

______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org

You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/

Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

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john elder on mon 24 nov 03


Hi Chris,
two ideas you could try....first use a heat gun to stiffen the clay up
before removal from the hump and/or in combination with carefully laying a
peice of paper over the damp rim of the pot which seals the air inside and
stop the piece from distoring on removal....good luck.
John Elder


>From: Chris Clyburn
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Throwing off the hump
>Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:23:53 -0500
>
>Ok I have a question,
>
>When I first started throwing off the hump, I threw thick heavy pieces.
>Then
>I began getting into sculptural forms throwing and quit throwing off the
>hump. Now that I am getting more and more interested in functional wares in
>addition to my sculptural pieces I am starting to throw off the hump again
>for speeds sake. Now the problem is I have become obsessed with thin forms
>and thick ones just don't do it for me. When I throw off the hump thinly
>and
>try and remove the piece, the rim distorts, which is not asthetically
>appealing for me (I'm very obssessive about throwing perfectly symetrical
>pieces) I throw with a heavily grogged stoneware (Laguna's Big White.)
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
>removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling myself
>that
>it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and my
>professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to throw
>thick heavy forms.
>
>Any ideas, suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>Chris Clyburn
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.

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Tony Ferguson on mon 24 nov 03


Michael,

You are the mad scientist of ceramic inventions. Your inventions are 2
cool. I would encourage anyone to visit Michael's site to see what he has
built.

Thank you.

Tony Ferguson
On Lake Superior, where the sky meets the Lake

Custom & Manufactured Kiln Design
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku and more
by Coleman, Ferguson, Winchester...
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Wendt"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Throwing off the hump


> See the cutoff tool near the bottom of the page at
> http://www.wendtpottery.com/supply.htm
> and see the clay softness test report at
> http://www.wendtpottery.com/claytest.htm .
> I throw primarily off the hump. The cut off stick I use permits thin forms
> of nearly any size to be picked up while the wheel is still turning. Tony
> Ferguson also mentioned this technique. The cutoff tool is a 1.25" wide by
> 11"long by 16 gauge thick "knife" of stainless steel. The lead edge is
> ground sharp and then blunted slightly to avoid cuts. As the wheel turns
the
> water laden cutoff tool is advanced quickly into the desired cut off
> location resulting in a nearly finished bottom with just a small tear
button
> near the center that must be removed by trimming later. The stick is half
> under the piece when the cutoff is done so the thin pieces are supported
> quite well.
> Regards,
> Michael Wendt
> Wendt Pottery
> 2729 Clearwater Ave
> Lewiston, ID 83501
> wendtpot@lewiston.com
> www.wendtpottery.com
>
> In reply to:
> Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
> removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling myself
that
> it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and my
> professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to
throw
> thick heavy forms.
>
> Any ideas, suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Clyburn
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>

Tony Ferguson on mon 24 nov 03


It takes practice to throw off the hump. You might need to use stiffer
clay. Using a heater or propane torch on bowls defeats the purpose of the
speed aspect of throwing off the hump. I couldn't say it any better than
Michael said about using a wooden knife (such as used in Korea) to cut and
lift your pieces off the hump. Remember, a lot of what Japan has inherited
came from Korea or Korean potters. Find the technique that works best for
you--as each traditions have developed along similar and different pathways.
I believe the Japanese added the string to the knife--it looks cool but the
knife is more efficient. I find it easier to just cut and lift off the
hump--this way I can throw fast and loose and I can angle the knife to
create a concave or convex shape under the bowl--not much trimming depending
on the form. If you want to throw fast and tight, perfect forms, you will
have to use stiffer clay or throw dry and rib any moisture off. You could
throw with stationary fan just blowing on your entire hump as you throw too.
You will figure it out. If you are new to throwing off the hump, then it is
just a matter of putting in the time and developing control over the clay as
you pull it out of the hump.



Thank you.

Tony Ferguson
On Lake Superior, where the sky meets the Lake

Custom & Manufactured Kiln Design
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku and more
by Coleman, Ferguson, Winchester...
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806




----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Wendt"
To:
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Throwing off the hump


> See the cutoff tool near the bottom of the page at
> http://www.wendtpottery.com/supply.htm
> and see the clay softness test report at
> http://www.wendtpottery.com/claytest.htm .
> I throw primarily off the hump. The cut off stick I use permits thin forms
> of nearly any size to be picked up while the wheel is still turning. Tony
> Ferguson also mentioned this technique. The cutoff tool is a 1.25" wide by
> 11"long by 16 gauge thick "knife" of stainless steel. The lead edge is
> ground sharp and then blunted slightly to avoid cuts. As the wheel turns
the
> water laden cutoff tool is advanced quickly into the desired cut off
> location resulting in a nearly finished bottom with just a small tear
button
> near the center that must be removed by trimming later. The stick is half
> under the piece when the cutoff is done so the thin pieces are supported
> quite well.
> Regards,
> Michael Wendt
> Wendt Pottery
> 2729 Clearwater Ave
> Lewiston, ID 83501
> wendtpot@lewiston.com
> www.wendtpottery.com
>
> In reply to:
> Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
> removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling myself
that
> it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and my
> professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to
throw
> thick heavy forms.
>
> Any ideas, suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Clyburn
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>

DMCARTS@AOL.COM on mon 24 nov 03


Try using two cut-offs.... One at the desired point of the foot, as normal,
and another 3/8 to 1/2" below. This will create a "cookie" or "pad" if you
will, that is isolated from the foot of the piece. The "cookie" can be grasped
and distorted without transferring the distortion through the foot of the piece.
The cookies are then easily recycled when the piece is firm enough to be
removed (from the cookie) without distortion. I find this work well for thinner
pieces and save a lot of extra trimming down the road.

Michael Coffee
Sunny and Cold... Pagosa Springs, Colorado USA
www.dmcarts.com

Susan Setley on mon 24 nov 03


In a message dated 11/24/03 11:18:33 AM, Lee@MASHIKO.ORG writes:

<< Hi Chris,

Are you trimming your work? If so, leave a thicker portion of
clay at the base of the form to carry the stress of lifting.

Working at my teacher's workshop, where we did rope impression on
the work, I learned not to be troubled by distortion. On the yunomi,
pressing the rope in the clay always distorted it a little. You can
always reshape the clay after you are done. >>


Lee some things look well distorted. In fact they're not distorted. They have
interest, and rhythm, and they occupy their space better.

Other things look really, really bad, distorted.

Functional ware sometimes HAS to be round... or poeple won't buy it. If you
make a casserole, and you distort it taking it off the hump, you'd better pray
the lid distorted in the same way :)

I learned this lesson both the hard way and the fun way. The hard way was
when I simply refused to believe a bowl was any good, because it wasn't round.
Other people liked it, and someone bought it -- and I'm a relative beginner, I
don't sell much yet. :)

The other was a visit to the Japanese gardens. I was struck by how "not
round" native Japanese trees are. Also rocks aren't round; lakes aren't round;
streams do not divide the land symmetrically; and mountains are not symmetrical.
The garden was stupendously beautiful; and not symmetrical; and not-round tea
bowls would have looked far more "right" than round ones.

But sometimes, symmetry is good and suits a piece.

Vince Pitelka on mon 24 nov 03


> Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
> removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling myself
that
> it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and my
> professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to
throw
> thick heavy forms.

Chris -
You have gotten some good suggestions so far. Most people trim hump-thrown
wares, and thus there is no reason not to leave a thicker pad at the foot -
that allows you to easily pick up the vessel underneath, against the thicker
pad, without distorting it, no matter how thin it is thrown. It is
important that that pad be fairly narrow. In other words, the bowl or
tumbler or whatever should be thrown at the top of a narrow column of clay,
so that the vessel is considerably wider than the column. Then, after you
cut it off, you can easily pick up the vessel by grasping the pad of clay
where the foot will be trimmed.

When I was teaching at NDSU Fargo I got to see Richard Bresnahan throw off
the hump over at Moorehead State, and he used some neat tricks. When he
threw, the water never made it to the outer rim of the wheelhead. That's
how little water he used. And if you want to hump-throw cups or tumblers or
other vessels so that they do not have to be wheel trimmed, just cut them
off with a Japanese cutoff string at the appropriate level for the bottom
thickness you want, and then cut off again a half inch lower. Pick up the
piece by that 1/2" pad, set it on a wareboard, let it stiffen to leather
hard, remove the pad and toss it in your recycle.

The Japanese cutoff string, when properly used, leaves a beautiful mark on
the bottom. If you don't know how to make a Japanese cutoff string, you can
find plenty of info in the archives.
Best wishes -
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/

BJ Clark on mon 24 nov 03


I have seen a few people in my classes throw off the hump and use tools
called "Pot Lifts" to pick them up. These are usually for larger pieces
though (and it takes a little skill to figure out how they really
work).
About half way down they are listed on this page:
http://www.baileypottery.com/tools/kempertools3.htm

Just search for "Pot Lifts"

Just a thought,
BJ Clark
Mesa State College


On Nov 23, 2003, at 10:23 PM, Chris Clyburn wrote:

> Ok I have a question,
>
> When I first started throwing off the hump, I threw thick heavy
> pieces. Then
> I began getting into sculptural forms throwing and quit throwing off
> the
> hump. Now that I am getting more and more interested in functional
> wares in
> addition to my sculptural pieces I am starting to throw off the hump
> again
> for speeds sake. Now the problem is I have become obsessed with thin
> forms
> and thick ones just don't do it for me. When I throw off the hump
> thinly and
> try and remove the piece, the rim distorts, which is not asthetically
> appealing for me (I'm very obssessive about throwing perfectly
> symetrical
> pieces) I throw with a heavily grogged stoneware (Laguna's Big White.)
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for throwing thinly off the hump and
> removing it without distortion off the rim, or am I just fooling
> myself that
> it can be done? I've checked my books and the archives for answers and
> my
> professor (don't worry, I'm not starting again ) only knows how to
> throw
> thick heavy forms.
>
> Any ideas, suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Clyburn
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>

Michael Wendt on tue 25 nov 03


Serendipity... Last night my wife and I were in the craft section of
Wal-Mart when I saw the large Wilton cake spatula for about $4.00. It has a
large comfy handle and looks just like my cutoff stick that I use or like
Tony Ferguson's wooden float stick.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
wendtpot@lewiston.com
www.wendtpottery.com

Dave Finkelnburg on tue 25 nov 03


Hump throwers,
About 4 years ago I was in a potter's studio in Ichon, southeast of
Seoul, Korea, watching the potter throw teabowls off the hump. He was
cutting them off with a stainless steel tool that looked a lot like a
slightly flattened version of the stainless chopsticks restaurants in Korea
offer customers.
Since then I use either a cutoff string for wider forms or a wooden
chopstick, sanded flatish the last 3 inches or so for narrow-footed forms.
Yes, the latter tool leaves a bit of a mark in the foot, but it trims away
very rapidly. I use it as Michael Wendt and Tony Ferguson apparently use
wider tools, as a lifting tool as well as a cutoff tool, to help carry the
piece from the hump to the ware board. This is efficient because the cutoff
and lift are one continuous movement.
If you throw much off the hump I'm sure you'll find some tool that works
best for you. I think it's mostly a matter of preference. There is no one
"right" or "wrong" tool for the job.
Good potting,
Dave Finkelnburg, in Idaho where the calendar says fall but the
white landscape and the birds clustered at the feeder say winter...

Hendrix, Taylor J. on tue 25 nov 03


Dave,

You may be right about this and you know that I love ya,=20
but I tried using some kitchen scissors to cut my forms
off the hump. They didn't do so well. What's up with
that?

Taylor, in Waco

-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Dave
Finkelnburg
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 1:42 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Throwing off the hump

...
If you throw much off the hump I'm sure you'll find some tool that
works
best for you. I think it's mostly a matter of preference. There is no
one
"right" or "wrong" tool for the job.
=20
...

Dave Finkelnburg on wed 26 nov 03


Taylor,
All I can tell you is what my daddy always told me. "Dave," he would
say with a grin, as I complained about not being able to do something, "a
good carpenter never blames his tools."
Good potting!
Dave Finkelnburg

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hendrix, Taylor J."
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 4:13 PM
Dave,
You may be right about this and you know that I love ya,
but I tried using some kitchen scissors to cut my forms
off the hump. They didn't do so well. What's up with
that?

Roly Beevor on fri 12 dec 03


Dear Chris, and the person who suggested making a double cut to make a
sacrificial disc to lift a piece cleanly off a hump, but whose name I've
lost,

This really is an excellent technique. I tried it at the class last week
and when I went in yesterday was greeted with, "Roly we need to talk about
your bottoms," and " were you planning to do lots of turning today?".

So I went and started peeling the bottoms off, "Ooh, look what he can do."
Even the expert admitted to being converted when I showed her what I had
done.

I like not needing an extra tool, and not needing clean dry hands to take
the piece off the hump. I also found that starting by shaping the bottom of
the pot and the sacrificial disc with thumb and forefinger and finishing the
base with my little finger upturned made a neat job, and eliminated the
problem I've had with cutting too high and leaving a hole in the base. I
felt a bit uncomfortable about being a smart alec but you can't have
everything.

Roly
in damp grey Gateshead, but I'll go home and shake the Sloe Gin; now that
would be a fine glaze colour.