mel jacobson on sat 4 oct 03
i have been thinking about the post
about the cost of propane. it seems to
me the person said a firing would cost $200.
that would mean they were firing a 200 cubic
foot kiln to cone 12 over twenty hours.
we fire a 55 cubic foot gas kiln, at the farm, for 8 hours....and
use about 25 bucks worth of fuel. propane. kurt has
worked out the numbers several times, so that the group
can all help pay for gas. no one pays more than twenty bucks each.
and we fire about 60 pots per load/average.
how many gallons of fuel does it take to fire the
average kiln? not that much.
yes, propane is expensive, but when you figure out the
sale value of your pots, well it is not that much. if you
fire 60 pots...sell the first two and you have paid for the
firing. we pay between 1.02 and 1.98, always cheaper
in august. very expensive in january when it is 25 below zero.
we fill our kiln tanks every july.
we used 6% of our tank with two glaze firings last weekend.
that is 6% of 500 gallons.
do the math. average the cost at 1.23 gal..
mel
that would be almost a hundred pots @ 28 bucks each average.=$2800.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
wayneinkeywest on sat 4 oct 03
Dear Mr. Mayor: (I love that:>)
At the figures you quoted, it cost you approx. $36.90 for the two firings.
That's $18.45 per firing, which is (at 100 pots per) about $0.19 per pot
If one assumes that a pot firing (not just glaze) takes three times as long,
that adds
$0.57 per pot to the cost, for a total firing cost of $0.76. Now add in a
bisque firing,
assumed to be 2/3 of a ^10 firing, for another $0.38.
Total price for all three firings, per pot (assuming 100 pots) is ~$1.14.
Adding in the cost of clay per pot, the cost of glazes, transport etc. puts
the true cost at about
$8.00.
I hope you aren't taking longer than an hour for each pot, making, glazing,
and firing.
Most states now show their "minimum living wage" to be somewhere in the
neighborhood of $13-$15 dollars per hour.
(Minimum living wage is the wage you must earn to continually "break even"
in
a given geographic area for living expenses. That's not a good explanation,
but...)
Using those figures (high end), you are making a $5 profit from each pot? I
hope not!
That's not even 20%!
Wayne in Key West
> we used 6% of our tank with two glaze firings last weekend.
> that is 6% of 500 gallons.
> do the math. average the cost at 1.23 gal..
> mel
> that would be almost a hundred pots @ 28 bucks each average.=$2800.
Pamela Regentin on sat 4 oct 03
This was a helpful, informative post, Mel. Thanks
My original post showed my extreme ignorance on the subject, because I haven't fired a gas kiln yet. All I knew was that a friend who did some gas firings for me in her kiln was charging me $50 for the propane used in her small kiln when the fuel was well under $1/gal. We were supposed to be bartering the time involved. Therefore, I wondered if propane costing upwards of $1.69/gal was going to cost closer to $200 a firing in a larger kiln. (I'm beginning to wonder about a few things....)Your post was very informative though. Sounds like propane firing, even at $2.00/gal will be profitable. Whew...
Pam
"But now, O Lord, thou art our father;
we are the clay, and thou our potter;
and we all are the work of thy hand."
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
Earl Brunner on sun 5 oct 03
Pam, if I were renting out firings in my kiln, I would not just charge
for the gas, I would charge to cover eventual replacement and
maintenance on the kiln and for my time firing. I don't know the size
of the kiln, but $50.00 may not have covered her actual
costs...especially if you include time, friend or not.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Pamela
Regentin
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 10:24 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: propane prices/how much do you need?
This was a helpful, informative post, Mel. Thanks
My original post showed my extreme ignorance on the subject, because I
haven't fired a gas kiln yet. All I knew was that a friend who did some
gas firings for me in her kiln was charging me $50 for the propane used
in her small kiln when the fuel was well under $1/gal. We were supposed
to be bartering the time involved. Therefore, I wondered if propane
costing upwards of $1.69/gal was going to cost closer to $200 a firing
in a larger kiln. (I'm beginning to wonder about a few things....)Your
post was very informative though. Sounds like propane firing, even at
$2.00/gal will be profitable. Whew...
Pam
Snail Scott on sun 5 oct 03
At 10:23 PM 10/4/03 -0700, you wrote:
>...a friend who did some gas firings for me in her kiln was charging me
$50 for the propane used in her small kiln when the fuel was well under
$1/gal. We were supposed to be bartering the time involved...(I'm beginning
to wonder about a few things...
Even if you were bartering for the time, anyone who
charges for a firing based solely on fuel cost is
foolish. Every firing should budget for the future
replacement or repair of the kiln and the furniture
too. Without knowing the nature of the kiln and the
firing, I can't say if you were overcharged, (you
may have been,) but don't fall into the common error
of seeing fuel as the only cost of firing. Many
other people do.
There's no dishonesty in someone asking any price
for a service, even if they are charging a huge
'markup'. The customer can always choose whether to
pay that amount or do without. If nobody else in
your area does 'service firings' in a gas kiln, she
may be able charge whatever she wants. Doesn't sound
too 'friendly' if she does. But, the price you quoted
is not an uncommon one, depending on the size of the
kiln. I'd see if anyone else is offering gas firings
in your area, and at what cost, then decide if this
is a viable way to continue.
-Snail
Pamela Regentin on sun 5 oct 03
I had no problem at all paying my friend $50 and more for firing for me. I've fired for others and I know what kind of bad stuff it can do to your kiln! I was happy to pay it.
I am in the process of doing research before getting/building a gas kiln. (More posted questions to come...) and in my inquiries my friend has said it will take 40 gallons of propane to fire a 20 cubic ft. soft brick kiln. Does this sound right? Based on what others have said here it sounds like a high estimate. I'm also wondering if her former little kiln, which didn't fire very well imho, really sucked the fuel to get to temp and that's why she figured what she did for fuel? At today's price of $1.69/gal for propane that would be over $67 for a small kiln! (I make some big pots too and want a bigger kiln. I'm wondering at what point in size, a few cubic feet more in space won't make that much difference in fuel usage.)
Pam
"But now, O Lord, thou art our father;
we are the clay, and thou our potter;
and we all are the work of thy hand."
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
Earl Brunner on sun 5 oct 03
It's going to depend on a lot of factors. The insulating value or
factor of the brick or fiber, the thickness of the walls, how "tight"
the kiln is, it will depend on the quality of your burner system, how
many of them you have, your gas line, and the size of your propane tank
or tanks.
Years ago, I built an insulated firebrick kiln that used two 12X24
shelves, so the stacking area was about 24x24 and the height was about
32 inches. My burners were under the kiln and pointed straight up, and
the kiln was a down draft. I used about 25-30 gallons of propane to
fire to cone 10. I had a 350 gallon tank. Some of the books will give
you some idea of how to figure btu's etc for a given size kiln.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Pamela
Regentin
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:04 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: propane prices/how much do you need?
I had no problem at all paying my friend $50 and more for firing for me.
I've fired for others and I know what kind of bad stuff it can do to
your kiln! I was happy to pay it.
I am in the process of doing research before getting/building a gas
kiln. (More posted questions to come...) and in my inquiries my friend
has said it will take 40 gallons of propane to fire a 20 cubic ft. soft
brick kiln. Does this sound right? Based on what others have said here
it sounds like a high estimate. I'm also wondering if her former little
kiln, which didn't fire very well imho, really sucked the fuel to get to
temp and that's why she figured what she did for fuel? At today's price
of $1.69/gal for propane that would be over $67 for a small kiln! (I
make some big pots too and want a bigger kiln. I'm wondering at what
point in size, a few cubic feet more in space won't make that much
difference in fuel usage.)
Pam
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