Lesley Bevan on thu 4 sep 03
Dear wise clayfolk,
Need some input here...
I'm thinking about putting my acting career on hold,
coming out of the clay-closet, and claiming a life in
pottery. My long-term goal is to have my theatrical
life work and my pottery suppliment each other (and
somehow eek out a living. Cross your fingers...)
Anyway, I've been taking classes fairly regularly for
four years and am wondering if anyone out there can
offer opinions on the pros and cons of a formal
education in clay?
I feel like I may benefit from the structure and
thoroughness of a degree, a program that would teach
me all the technical stuff that your average class
doesn't. Something that also addresses the business
of being a potter, the practicalities of a career in
clay.
Then again, I'm wondering if it is just as good to
save the money and stick with the pieced-together
training of assorted classes. As long as I set myself
goals and stay focused.
Or can anyone recommend programs half-way between the
two? Maybe something shorter than a three year
degree? I'm not sure I can dedicate the time and
money to a three year program, and I already have one
stupidly expensive and less-than-lucrative degree in
Performance Studies from Northwestern University.
I'm especially interested in programs in Oregon, the
Phoenix area, the DC area, and right here in Chicago,
though for the right match, I'd go anywhere.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
lesley
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Donn Buchfinck on fri 5 sep 03
lesley,
where to go and get a good foundation to learn about pottery?
Well, the university of Nebraska is focused on pottery, not just football.
Peter Pinnell is there, gail kendall, and eddie domingez, all three vessel
makers of one kind or another.
I had Peter for an instructor at the Kansas City art institute, and he was
one of the high points of my time there.
A realy warm inteligent creative instructor. I can't say enough.
There is Kurt Wieser at a school in Arizona, he has a great pedigre, KCAI,
Afred, the director of the Archie bray foundation, but some say he is focused on
his own work/carear quite a bit, I cannot attest to this myself.
As to the DC area, all I know is that Penn State is about 4 hours away. I
attended this school for my masters degree, And this program with Chris Staley
and Liz Quakenbush will hone your ability to speak your language.
A different experience than where Peter Pinnell is at. And it is imperitive
that you have a good connection with Chris.
I have mentioned the Kansas City Art Institute, and when I was there it was a
dynamic program, Ken Ferguson had his, lets say dark side, but what I got
from him out weighs anything bad I had to experience, I think I had to take the
bad with the good, but he is not there anymore, and I cannot comment about
what is going on there now with Carey Esser and George Timmock and Jane
Shalenbarger, and I think it is at 16 grand a year, that is tuition only not expenses.
The cost of the education must be taken into account when thinking about
going in any direction.
You have to be careful about WHERE you will go for an education, interview
the instructors, talk to the current students and try to talk to recent grags of
the programs you are interested in, you are not comming hat in hand, this
experience is about YOU, the artist. And some places seem to turn the table on
students, and get them to think it is about the greatness of the teachers and
the program they are in. I know I have been comming off quite pessimistic
latley with my writings, but I am correct about this. To have a succesfull
experience in an art program it is important to remember that "IT IS ABOUT YOU,
AND NOT THE INSTRUCTOR." At some point you will be in your studio and trying to
articualte a personal statement in the medium you are working with at the
time and If you have a bad experience it will take you YEARS to get to the point
where you can hear your own voice and speak it again.
And on another note, a formal education cannot be beat, IF you know what you
are going after.
Programs teach ABOUT clay/ceramics/pottery, not how to be an artist, or make
it as a potter, or be a potter. Go to a program with this understanding and
you will not come out disolusioned.
Have a plan for after the program you might enter, and try not to get caught
up in the MFA fever that runs rampant in at some places.
A concentrated program with dedicated instructors and a group of students
that are creative and having a critical dialouge cannot be surpassed. No ammount
of workshops and a class here and there can compare. It is like a
supercharger for the engine, you get the ability to go from point A to point M . Its like
skipping stones on water. You learn to speak your language in the medium
quicker. Spanish on tapes, or a couple of years in barcelona, what will make
you fluent faster??
But try to keep you eye on the prize, some people become addicted to the
educational enviroment, have a plan for after the education. And If being a
potter is important to you, then find a potter that is willing to help you learn
about the business of being a potter. This is a whole different animal from the
school experience.
Formal education = learning your personal expresive language
working with a potter = learning the practical business side of being
a potter.
Good Luck
Donn Buchfinck
San Francisco
http://www.geocities.com/clayincal/march5_potterywebpage.html
http://www.geocities.com/clayincal/may_1_2003.html
Kathie Wheater on fri 5 sep 03
Hi Leslie,
Have you checked out the Art Intitute in Chicago?
How about NorthernIU in Dekalb?
For short spurts try Lill Street or Terra Incognito in OakPark.
I believe Lill Street rents studio space as well.
Oakton community college has a ceramics department
as does the College of Dupage. I don't know if another
degree would help you or not. If it's for your own practice it
probably wouldn't do much. Depends on where you wish to go.
Hope this helps,
Kathie W
Vince Pitelka on sat 6 sep 03
> Or can anyone recommend programs half-way between the
> two? Maybe something shorter than a three year
> degree? I'm not sure I can dedicate the time and
> money to a three year program, and I already have one
> stupidly expensive and less-than-lucrative degree in
> Performance Studies from Northwestern University.
Lesley -
I haven't been following all the answers to your question, so I hope I am
not repeating things other people have said. The answer to your question is
"yes." In other words, yes you could probably get what you want by plugging
away at the part-time classes here and there, and yes you could accomplish
the same thing very quickly in a university program. Perhaps I am biased,
but there is nothing like the total immersion you can get in a university
program. It all depends on selecting the right program, but if you get a
good one, it will change your life in an icredibly short period of time. It
always seems like a lot of expense when you look at academic education up
front. But afterwards, almost inevitably, you will see it as among the very
best investments you could possible have made in your life and future.
Let me put a plug in for my school and clay program. The Appalachian Center
for Craft is part of the Art Department at Tennessee Tech University. We
have a spectacular facility on a wilderness setting overlooking Center Hill
Lake in Middle Tennessee, offering professional education programs in clay,
glass, metals, fibers and wood. We offer the BFA degree, a Professional
Craft Certificate, and the opportunity for open-ended portfolio development,
where a student can come study for a semester or a year or two years. We
have one of the finest studio facilities on the continent, and all advanced
students get their own semi-private studio space. The clay studio alone
includes 8000 square feet indoors, and another 3500 square feet outdoors
under roof for more kilns and for storage. We have kilns for every kind of
process you would want, including salt, soda, and wood.
Please check out my website (address below) to see images of the facility,
the clay studio, and the kilns, and to find out more about the programs at
the Craft Center. Email or call me if you have any questions. Depending on
how much immersion you can stand, you could accomplish a great deal here in
as little as one year.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
r horning on sat 6 sep 03
Hello fellow artists,
I am pretty new to the list. Yet I have searched the archives often for technical advice. Thank you for what you have offered.
20 years ago I began studying at Pewabic Pottery in Detroit. That turned into work in the production area. Later I worked as a studio assistant for a local artist. I received an undergraduate degree in ceramics and only three years ago accepted my MFA from Cranbrook. (I have worked full time in the auto industry for 17 years as a clay modeler and digital sculptor. I now have a studio with a salt kiln but still put in my 8 hours a day at Ford before doing my own work.)
For me, technical skills were learned most efficiently as an apprentice or assistant in a production studio. Under the direction of an expert I tested glazes, made clay and tile. I made well drafted molds I learned to hand build monumental sculpture.
You must carefully choose the studio according to what you desire to learn. Interview your prospective studio personnel to make sure the fit is right for you.
The same thing applies to school. Look at the work of the person who will be teaching your class. Interview them. Discuss their teaching philosophy as well as their clay philosophy. My education at Cranbrook was unlike anything I have heard anyone else discuss. It was not technical. Cranbrook opened my perspective in a way I had not anticipated. After so many years in the product oriented auto industry, I had forgotten how to explore without a predetermined goal. I learned to consider ideas and let my work follow . I discovered that the process was more important than the end product. It was an invaluable experience. Now I plan to attend the local community college where there is an excellent throwing teacher and a wood kiln to continue learning technical skills.
For me the most important thing is to just get out in the studio and work. At anything. Just continue to pursue your ideas and hone your skills.
Rebecca
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r horning on sat 6 sep 03
Thank you, Tony, for the welcome.
The tuition alone at Cranbrook was about $18,000 per year. It is a full time program. However, it is possible to not receive a degree at the end of two years if the artists in residence that make up the teaching staff do not believe the student is ready.
I re-mortgaged my house to pay my tuition. I live in the area and so did not have to pay extra living expenses.
Cranbrook now has an incredible high tech studio space . It is a beauty. And Tony Hepburn will challenge anyone to go deeper and further than they thought able.
Rebecca
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r horning on sat 6 sep 03
Tony,
This is from Cranbrook's website:
"The Academy's financial aid program provides assistance to eligible students whose resources are not sufficient to meet the cost of study. Financial aid awards vary depending upon the student's financial need and the amount of funds available. The maximum need-based financial aid is approximately one-third of tuition. Students applying for financial aid are considered automatically for all aid programs for which they are eligible. The Academy does not offer fellowships or teaching assistantships."
who are accepted or enrolled at the Academy may be considered for financial aid based on need, merit or both. All students are eligible for merit-based financial aid. Prospective students must apply for financial aid when they apply for admission. Financial aid requests will not be processed before admission applications.
Types of Aid, Scholarships and Grants:
Half-tuition Director’s Scholarships
The Director’s Scholarships, established in late 2001, are half-tuition scholarships that will be awarded to two outstanding students annually for two years of study at Cranbrook Academy of Art. The highest priority for the Director’s Scholarships will be candidates from under-represented minorities - African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, Arab Americans, Asian Americans - as incentive to pursue graduate education and professional practice as artists, designers, and architects. The half-tuition scholarship for each year is based on merit; applicants are nominated by the department head and selected by a committee of faculty members and staff. Additional financial assistance is available to qualifying students.
Cranbrook Need-Based Gift Aid
Tuition assistance will be credited to the student's account based on demonstrated financial need. Awards vary and are limited by the availability of funds.
Merit Scholarships
After completing two semesters at the Academy, students are eligible to compete for merit scholarships managed by the Academy. Students are usually nominated by faculty and must submit slides and statements about their work. The specific date of the submission deadline (sometime in May) is announced each year. Awards are made following review by the scholarship committee. Approximately twenty-five percent of second-year students receive merit assistance through this program.
Department Assistantships
Each year faculty nominate students to assume tasks within their departments. Awards are based on level of skill and merit. No separate application is made.
Michigan Tuition Grant Program
The State of Michigan offers modest tuition grants based on financial need. The grants are limited to Michigan residents attending private colleges. Applicants must indicate on their FAFSA that financial data should be provided to the state agency in charge of the program. Documentation of Michigan residency is required. Students are advised of their award status in early summer.
Work Opportunity
All students eligible for federal financial assistance may apply for work-study positions on campus including community service positions at Cranbrook's Art Museum, positions at the Academy Library or in the administrative offices. Work-study applications are issued to financial aid applicants prior to registration. Applicants are interviewed and assigned positions during the first days of the semester. Students are limited to fifteen hours weekly and are paid bi-weekly. Awards are made on a competitive basis.
Loan Program
Graduate students may borrow up to $18,500 per year, depending upon the costs of study and other financial aid received by the student. Students demonstrating financial need may borrow up to $8,500 through a subsidized Stafford Loan, and up to $10,000 more through an unsubsidized Stafford Loan. Students who do not qualify for a subsidized loan may borrow the entire amount through the unsubsidized program. Questions regarding eligibility should be directed to the Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid. Loan applications must be obtained from the student's own lending institution. Filing a financial aid form does not qualify the student for consideration.
Hope this helps!
Rebecca
---------------------------------
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Malcolm Schosha on sun 7 sep 03
Interesting. When I studied at the State School for Ceramics in Sesto
Fiorentino (six miles from Florence ,Italy) in the late 1960's, as a
foreigner I did not qualify for financial aid. Tuition for a year was
$32.00, and books about doubled that. There were no materials fees or
other fees that I can recall. Italian students paid no tuition, got
their books for free, and received an annual stipend (I can't
remember how much). I have no idea how the situation stands for
Italian students these days, but I am quite sure they do not leave
school with large loans to pay off, as is the case in the USA. How
different things could be here in the United States.
Malcolm
...............................................
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, r horning wrote:
> Tony,
> This is from Cranbrook's website:
> "The Academy's financial aid program provides assistance to
eligible students whose resources are not sufficient to meet the cost
of study. Financial aid awards vary depending upon the student's
financial need and the amount of funds available. The maximum need-
based financial aid is approximately one-third of tuition. Students
applying for financial aid are considered automatically for all aid
programs for which they are eligible. The Academy does not offer
fellowships or teaching assistantships."
> who are accepted or enrolled at the Academy may be considered for
financial aid based on need, merit or both. All students are eligible
for merit-based financial aid. Prospective students must apply for
financial aid when they apply for admission. Financial aid requests
will not be processed before admission applications.
> Types of Aid, Scholarships and Grants:
>
> Half-tuition Director's Scholarships
>
> The Director's Scholarships, established in late 2001, are half-
tuition scholarships that will be awarded to two outstanding students
annually for two years of study at Cranbrook Academy of Art. The
highest priority for the Director's Scholarships will be candidates
from under-represented minorities - African Americans, Hispanic
Americans, Native Americans, Arab Americans, Asian Americans - as
incentive to pursue graduate education and professional practice as
artists, designers, and architects. The half-tuition scholarship for
each year is based on merit; applicants are nominated by the
department head and selected by a committee of faculty members and
staff. Additional financial assistance is available to qualifying
students.
>
> Cranbrook Need-Based Gift Aid
>
> Tuition assistance will be credited to the student's account based
on demonstrated financial need. Awards vary and are limited by the
availability of funds.
>
> Merit Scholarships
>
> After completing two semesters at the Academy, students are
eligible to compete for merit scholarships managed by the Academy.
Students are usually nominated by faculty and must submit slides and
statements about their work. The specific date of the submission
deadline (sometime in May) is announced each year. Awards are made
following review by the scholarship committee. Approximately twenty-
five percent of second-year students receive merit assistance through
this program.
>
> Department Assistantships
>
> Each year faculty nominate students to assume tasks within their
departments. Awards are based on level of skill and merit. No
separate application is made.
>
> Michigan Tuition Grant Program
>
> The State of Michigan offers modest tuition grants based on
financial need. The grants are limited to Michigan residents
attending private colleges. Applicants must indicate on their FAFSA
that financial data should be provided to the state agency in charge
of the program. Documentation of Michigan residency is required.
Students are advised of their award status in early summer.
>
> Work Opportunity
>
> All students eligible for federal financial assistance may apply
for work-study positions on campus including community service
positions at Cranbrook's Art Museum, positions at the Academy Library
or in the administrative offices. Work-study applications are issued
to financial aid applicants prior to registration. Applicants are
interviewed and assigned positions during the first days of the
semester. Students are limited to fifteen hours weekly and are paid
bi-weekly. Awards are made on a competitive basis.
>
> Loan Program
>
> Graduate students may borrow up to $18,500 per year, depending upon
the costs of study and other financial aid received by the student.
Students demonstrating financial need may borrow up to $8,500 through
a subsidized Stafford Loan, and up to $10,000 more through an
unsubsidized Stafford Loan. Students who do not qualify for a
subsidized loan may borrow the entire amount through the unsubsidized
program. Questions regarding eligibility should be directed to the
Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid. Loan applications must be
obtained from the student's own lending institution. Filing a
financial aid form does not qualify the student for consideration.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Rebecca
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
________
> Send postings to clayart@l...
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@p...
Tony Ferguson on sun 7 sep 03
Malcolm,
It is an industry. And it is sad because of the blatant taking advantage of
folks who need money to go to school. My student loan payment is enough for
a car. I've educated myself but how have I raised my standard of living by
paying on loans the rest of my life? That said, its very difficult to
obtain a house loan because of student loans--one of the many things they
don't tell you when they flash the loan application in your face.
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
On Lake Superior, where the sky meets the Lake
Custom & Manufactured Kiln Design
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku and more
by Coleman, Ferguson, Winchester...
http://www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Schosha"
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: advice on formal education in clay?
> Interesting. When I studied at the State School for Ceramics in Sesto
> Fiorentino (six miles from Florence ,Italy) in the late 1960's, as a
> foreigner I did not qualify for financial aid. Tuition for a year was
> $32.00, and books about doubled that. There were no materials fees or
> other fees that I can recall. Italian students paid no tuition, got
> their books for free, and received an annual stipend (I can't
> remember how much). I have no idea how the situation stands for
> Italian students these days, but I am quite sure they do not leave
> school with large loans to pay off, as is the case in the USA. How
> different things could be here in the United States.
>
> Malcolm
> ...............................................
>
>
> --- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, r horning wrote:
> > Tony,
> > This is from Cranbrook's website:
> > "The Academy's financial aid program provides assistance to
> eligible students whose resources are not sufficient to meet the cost
> of study. Financial aid awards vary depending upon the student's
> financial need and the amount of funds available. The maximum need-
> based financial aid is approximately one-third of tuition. Students
> applying for financial aid are considered automatically for all aid
> programs for which they are eligible. The Academy does not offer
> fellowships or teaching assistantships."
> > who are accepted or enrolled at the Academy may be considered for
> financial aid based on need, merit or both. All students are eligible
> for merit-based financial aid. Prospective students must apply for
> financial aid when they apply for admission. Financial aid requests
> will not be processed before admission applications.
> > Types of Aid, Scholarships and Grants:
> >
> > Half-tuition Director's Scholarships
> >
> > The Director's Scholarships, established in late 2001, are half-
> tuition scholarships that will be awarded to two outstanding students
> annually for two years of study at Cranbrook Academy of Art. The
> highest priority for the Director's Scholarships will be candidates
> from under-represented minorities - African Americans, Hispanic
> Americans, Native Americans, Arab Americans, Asian Americans - as
> incentive to pursue graduate education and professional practice as
> artists, designers, and architects. The half-tuition scholarship for
> each year is based on merit; applicants are nominated by the
> department head and selected by a committee of faculty members and
> staff. Additional financial assistance is available to qualifying
> students.
> >
> > Cranbrook Need-Based Gift Aid
> >
> > Tuition assistance will be credited to the student's account based
> on demonstrated financial need. Awards vary and are limited by the
> availability of funds.
> >
> > Merit Scholarships
> >
> > After completing two semesters at the Academy, students are
> eligible to compete for merit scholarships managed by the Academy.
> Students are usually nominated by faculty and must submit slides and
> statements about their work. The specific date of the submission
> deadline (sometime in May) is announced each year. Awards are made
> following review by the scholarship committee. Approximately twenty-
> five percent of second-year students receive merit assistance through
> this program.
> >
> > Department Assistantships
> >
> > Each year faculty nominate students to assume tasks within their
> departments. Awards are based on level of skill and merit. No
> separate application is made.
> >
> > Michigan Tuition Grant Program
> >
> > The State of Michigan offers modest tuition grants based on
> financial need. The grants are limited to Michigan residents
> attending private colleges. Applicants must indicate on their FAFSA
> that financial data should be provided to the state agency in charge
> of the program. Documentation of Michigan residency is required.
> Students are advised of their award status in early summer.
> >
> > Work Opportunity
> >
> > All students eligible for federal financial assistance may apply
> for work-study positions on campus including community service
> positions at Cranbrook's Art Museum, positions at the Academy Library
> or in the administrative offices. Work-study applications are issued
> to financial aid applicants prior to registration. Applicants are
> interviewed and assigned positions during the first days of the
> semester. Students are limited to fifteen hours weekly and are paid
> bi-weekly. Awards are made on a competitive basis.
> >
> > Loan Program
> >
> > Graduate students may borrow up to $18,500 per year, depending upon
> the costs of study and other financial aid received by the student.
> Students demonstrating financial need may borrow up to $8,500 through
> a subsidized Stafford Loan, and up to $10,000 more through an
> unsubsidized Stafford Loan. Students who do not qualify for a
> subsidized loan may borrow the entire amount through the unsubsidized
> program. Questions regarding eligibility should be directed to the
> Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid. Loan applications must be
> obtained from the student's own lending institution. Filing a
> financial aid form does not qualify the student for consideration.
> >
> > Hope this helps!
> >
> > Rebecca
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> > Send postings to clayart@l...
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@p...
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
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