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laser decal question

updated fri 28 feb 03

 

Marek Warunkiewicz on sat 22 feb 03


In looking at pottery books, a number of really interesting pieces were done
with a process called "laser decals".

How does this work? Can I do it at home if I have a laser printer?

Can someone give me detailed instructions or point me to a web page or book
that details this process?

I work in cone 6 porcelain but can change my working technique if I have to.

Thanks all you great folks!

Love the list!

Marek

Fredrick Paget on sat 22 feb 03


Marek,
I have been monkeying around with this process for 7 or 8 years ( see the
archives under my name) and my current method is to use laser decal paper
in the printer and put it on the ware in the bisque stage rebisque to at
least cone 04 and then glaze, followed by hi fire or leave it bare and
hifire in reduction.There are many ways of doing it. This is the easiest
way to do it .
The laser toner has a lot of iron oxide in it and the iron makes the image.
Depending on how you fire it, it will be anything from light orange to a
dark brown. You have to fire it hot enough to get the iron to flux into
the clay. Alternatly you can put it on over a fired glaze and fire it hot
enough that the glaze melts a little and soaks up the iron.
The special laser decal paper is over $1.40 a letter size sheet. It is made
with a film over the water soluble glue layer . I am not sure but I think
that plain decal paper made for the silk screen process does not have this
layer. I got my supply of the paper from
http://www.micromark.com
or specifically :
http://www.dxmarket.com/micromark/dir/26.html and they also sell a spray
to put on top of the image but ordinary clear acrylic spray should work
too.Yes you can do it at home if you have a laser printer.
Fred

>In looking at pottery books, a number of really interesting pieces were done
>with a process called "laser decals".
>How does this work? Can I do it at home if I have a laser printer?
>I work in cone 6 porcelain but can change my working technique if I have to.
>Marek


From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA

Jim Murphy on sat 22 feb 03


on 2/22/03 7:31 AM, Marek Warunkiewicz at marek@FEELGOODCARS.COM wrote:

> In looking at pottery books, a number of really interesting pieces were done
> with a process called "laser decals".

Marek,

Perhaps the following websites may help get you started:

http://www.ceramicindustry.com/ci/cda/articleinformation/features/bnp__featu
res__item/0,2710,80851,00.html







There's also a fine book, "Ceramic and Print" by Paul Scott.

Best of luck,

Jim Murphy

Ababi on sat 22 feb 03


Try
http://folksites.com/LearntheNet/geopics/Page1.html
Ababi
---------- Original Message ----------


>How does this work? Can I do it at home if I have a laser printer?

>Can someone give me detailed instructions or point me to a web page or book
>that details this process?



>Marek

Fredrick Paget on sun 23 feb 03


A couple of problems I ran into today:

My current method is to use laser decal paper
>in the printer and put the decal on the ware in the bisque stage.

Here there is a problem. the bisque needs a sealer so the decal will stick.
I am trying diluted white glue painted on and also trying the decal
overcoat spray on the bisque,

> rebisque to at
>least cone 04 and then glaze, followed by hi fire or leave it bare and
>hifire in reduction.There are many ways of doing it. This is the easiest
>way to do it .
>The laser toner has a lot of iron oxide in it and the iron makes the image.
>Depending on how you fire it, it will be anything from light orange to a
>dark brown. You have to fire it hot enough to get the iron to flux into
>the clay. Alternatly you can put it on over a fired glaze and fire it hot
>enough that the glaze melts a little and soaks up the iron.
>The special laser decal paper is over $1.40 a letter size sheet. It is made
>with a film over the water soluble glue layer . I am not sure but I think
>that plain decal paper made for the silk screen process does not have this
>layer. I got my supply of the paper from
>http://www.micromark.com
>or specifically :
> http://www.dxmarket.com/micromark/dir/26.html and they also sell a spray
>to put on top of the image but ordinary clear acrylic spray should work
>too.Yes you can do it at home if you have a laser printer.

And here is another problem. I tried Krylon acrylic spray on a decal today
and the solvent in the spray ruined it.
For now I will stick with the spray that micromark sells.
I would like to get some real decal overcoat but the only source I found so
far only sells it in huge cans.


>Fred
>

From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA

Martin Howard on mon 24 feb 03


For the benefit of all who are wondering about using their computer printer
for making decals, here is what I have been sending to individuals who have
come to me for advice on the subject.

The web site you need to look at first is www.digitalceramics.com
That is a system based on redesigned photocopiers and then using special
toners. Stuart Jones is the MD and you can reach him on sjonesdcs@aol.com
It is not cheap, but may well be what you want if you intend to be
commercial.

However, the system I am working on is for those potters who cannot afford
such a system.

So, I am preparing to use toners from Select, a branch of Johnson Matthey
I was in contact with a Deborah Grocote on tel 01782 576566.
She is a top person in Johnson Matthey Colours and Coating division.
See http://www.colours.matthey.com/s.htm and download the catalogue Select
Ceramic Supplies.

Deborah may provide you FREE with 50 gm samples of anything you want to try
out as fine stains on your computer printer. See page 23 and 24 of the
Select catalogue for 4 colour unleaded onglaze colours and 4 colour low
metal release onglaze colours.
You will need the finest form of toner to make this work.
So far I have not actually put the stains into a computer printer cartridge,
but it can be done, I'm sure. What you need to do is test, with an OLD
printer, one that you don't mind losing! We are at the cutting edge of
printing technology here and you wont want to bugger up you only printer!

Try 50/50 fine stain from Select and the proper computer printer ink.
Jettec do a special Cartridge refill kit, which includes 30ml of the Cyan,
Magenta and Yellow ink. They also do a black one as well.
Then do a line test to get the best result.
I am sure that we need some of the computer printer ink to satisfy the
technical needs of the printer.
So the final decal will be more faint than the original, depending on what
proportion is necessary to cause the printer to function properly.

If you only need single colour, say black, then somehow coating a fabric
ribbon of the old kind of printer would do the job. Then there is no need to
us special computer inks; just a water/stain mix would suffice. The problem
is
coating the whole length of the fabric. Messy! There was a machine to do
just that back in the dark ages! But I gave mine away to a friend in Poland
about 15 years ago. It was based on vertical rollers, one of which was
perforated to allow a flow of ink to get onto the ribbon as you wound it
past that point.

Today I am putting my theory into practice. Fingers crossed everybody!

Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Updated 11th February 2003

Saic1984@AOL.COM on mon 24 feb 03


One tip for cover coat: the first coat must be a mere dusting, followed by a
few more light coats (once dry) that do not saturate the decal, causing it to
run. Also, I usually
tape the paper down to a support, along the edges, since the paper tends to
curl up
when wet. Even decals that are fully dry will curl, so I place them in a
(photo) print
blotter book - these have glacene paper in them, which will not harm the
decal.

E-mail off list if you have other questions/concerns.

Andre
SAIC1984@aol.com

Jim Tabor on mon 24 feb 03


Greetings Martin-

I had a company add half and half cobalt ox. and toner to my LaserWriter
IIG cartridge. I ran decaflat with and without covercoat. No luck
getting the ink fused to the paper. I have the cartridge but the printer
has died. I planned to take the toner cartridge back and have half of
the mix replaced with toner. The particles are melted in the fuser and I
think there was too much cobalt. The company only charged $38- for a
refurbished toner cartridge charged with the cobalt mix. I furnished the
cobalt.

Jim Tabor

Martin Howard wrote:

>...
>
>Try 50/50 fine stain from Select and the proper computer printer ink.
>Jettec do a special Cartridge refill kit, which includes 30ml of the Cyan,
>Magenta and Yellow ink. They also do a black one as well.
>Then do a line test to get the best result.
>I am sure that we need some of the computer printer ink to satisfy the
>technical needs of the printer.
>So the final decal will be more faint than the original, depending on what
>proportion is necessary to cause the printer to function properly.
>
>If you only need single colour, say black, then somehow coating a fabric
>ribbon of the old kind of printer would do the job. Then there is no need to
>us special computer inks; just a water/stain mix would suffice. The problem
>is
>coating the whole length of the fabric. Messy! There was a machine to do
>just that back in the dark ages! But I gave mine away to a friend in Poland
>about 15 years ago. It was based on vertical rollers, one of which was
>perforated to allow a flow of ink to get onto the ribbon as you wound it
>past that point.
>
>Today I am putting my theory into practice. Fingers crossed everybody!
>
>Martin Howard
>Webbs Cottage Pottery
>Woolpits Road, Great Saling
>BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
>01371 850 423
>martin@webbscottage.co.uk
>http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
>Updated 11th February 2003
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>

Martin Howard on tue 25 feb 03


Jim, I think the problem is using cobalt straight.

I plan to use the very finest stains from Select, which are designed to go
with the Yellow, Cyan, Magenta and Black colours of the printer.
I will also add a flux as recommended on page 23 of the Select catalogue.
The ceramic stain and its carrier/flux needs to mix easily with the printer
ink.
So I will test the mix beforehand. It sounds as if your mix didn't and
therefore nothing arrived on paper.
A modern printer is too finely designed for what we want, so it clogs up!
Only use an old disposable one.
My one for this experiment is an Epson Stylus color ESCP2. One of the
earliest of the range. Bought for a mere 20!
I don't intend using my Epson Stylus Color 850, which is much more recent
and valuable.

Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Updated 11th February 2003

Steve Mills on tue 25 feb 03


This is pretty interesting; one of our customers has just sent us
through a couple of samples of decals which he printed on to glue film
paper with an ordinary laser printer. No special inks, just ordinary
toner, which apparently contains a high degree of iron oxide. Suffice
to say the results are sepia in colour, and when applied to the outside
of all already glazed mug, worked, provided it was fired to the
maturation temperature of the glaze, in this case 1060 degrees C.

Steve
Bath
UK


In message , Martin Howard writes
>For the benefit of all who are wondering about using their computer print=
>er
>for making decals, here is what I have been sending to individuals who ha=
>ve
>come to me for advice on the subject.
>
>The web site you need to look at first is www.digitalceramics.com
>That is a system based on redesigned photocopiers and then using special
>toners. Stuart Jones is the MD and you can reach him on sjonesdcs@aol.com
>It is not cheap, but may well be what you want if you intend to be
>commercial.
>
>However, the system I am working on is for those potters who cannot affor=
>d
>such a system.
>
>So, I am preparing to use toners from Select, a branch of Johnson Matthey
>I was in contact with a Deborah Grocote on tel 01782 576566.
>She is a top person in Johnson Matthey Colours and Coating division.
>See http://www.colours.matthey.com/s.htm and download the catalogue Selec=
>t
>Ceramic Supplies.
>
>Deborah may provide you FREE with 50 gm samples of anything you want to t=
>ry
>out as fine stains on your computer printer. See page 23 and 24 of the
>Select catalogue for 4 colour unleaded onglaze colours and 4 colour low
>metal release onglaze colours.
>You will need the finest form of toner to make this work.
>So far I have not actually put the stains into a computer printer cartrid=
>ge,
>but it can be done, I'm sure. What you need to do is test, with an OLD
>printer, one that you don't mind losing! We are at the cutting edge of
>printing technology here and you wont want to bugger up you only printer!
>
>Try 50/50 fine stain from Select and the proper computer printer ink.
>Jettec do a special Cartridge refill kit, which includes 30ml of the Cyan=
>,
>Magenta and Yellow ink. They also do a black one as well.
>Then do a line test to get the best result.
>I am sure that we need some of the computer printer ink to satisfy the
>technical needs of the printer.
>So the final decal will be more faint than the original, depending on wha=
>t
>proportion is necessary to cause the printer to function properly.
>
>If you only need single colour, say black, then somehow coating a fabric
>ribbon of the old kind of printer would do the job. Then there is no need=
> to
>us special computer inks; just a water/stain mix would suffice. The probl=
>em
>is
>coating the whole length of the fabric. Messy! There was a machine to do
>just that back in the dark ages! But I gave mine away to a friend in Pola=
>nd
>about 15 years ago. It was based on vertical rollers, one of which was
>perforated to allow a flow of ink to get onto the ribbon as you wound it
>past that point.
>
>Today I am putting my theory into practice. Fingers crossed everybody!
>
>Martin Howard
>Webbs Cottage Pottery
>Woolpits Road, Great Saling
>BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
>01371 850 423
>martin@webbscottage.co.uk
>http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
>Updated 11th February 2003

--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

george koller on tue 25 feb 03


Martin,

First, sure glad to be chatting technical with you
again, congratulations on your recovery.

I'm really curious now, are you or anybody you know of
getting repeatable results with this approach? Are you
using it on an almost daily or just once in awhile in your
work now?

You mentioned cobalt... there is a German / English /
American company named Ferro that makes liquid
"brick" stains based on the metals (Iron, Cobalt...)
at citrates. I tested them in our nozzles and they
worked fine. Less toxic than the sulfates. They ship
these out in liter size bottles that would cover many
100's of square feet.

The electronic nozzles we use are getting down to
about $100. Some are more with interchangeable
nozzles. But then you get it back because the nozzles
don't wear out but the bodies do eventually but only
after many 100's of hours. Also with the 2 piece
models you can take of the tip and backflush it if
it gets plugged.

In this scenario we control the "air over the colorant"
pressure, the cycles per second, and we can control
the duration of the cycle also. Seems like we can do
most of our work around 60CPS which is 1/16 of the
maximum CPS. Instead of a steady stream you get a
series of individual shots of nano-liters each.

Back two years ago when we first got the electronics
going I was running pieces around under it like my
grandmothers old sewing machine. Those little spits
come out of the nozzle and stay together like a little
liquid bullet. When things are working right it can
shoot well over 2". This "depth of focus" makes me
think that we will be able to do platters and plates
directly when we want to.

If you're interested in seeing the new stoneware work I can
send you some pictures.

Best,


George

Peter and Samantha Tomich on wed 26 feb 03


Have you tried it on leatherhard? just curious...
Samantha Tomich
Waikoloa, Hawaii
peter.sam@verizon.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Fredrick
Paget
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:03 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Laser Decal Question


A couple of problems I ran into today:

My current method is to use laser decal paper
>in the printer and put the decal on the ware in the bisque stage.

Here there is a problem. the bisque needs a sealer so the decal will stick.
I am trying diluted white glue painted on and also trying the decal
overcoat spray on the bisque...snip


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003

Martin Howard on thu 27 feb 03


George Koller posts
getting repeatable results with this approach? Are you
using it on an almost daily or just once in awhile in your
work now?>
Answer is no to both.
I'm just a lateral thinker. When something seems to me that it should work,
I try to bring all possible methods to that point and use my lateral
thinking to hopefully good result. It's worked with my prostate and bone
cancer, so perhaps it will work for computer printed decals.

So far I have not yet put the mixed inks, stains and screen print medium
together and into the printer cartridges.
Hope to do so this weekend, time permitting!

Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Updated 11th February 2003