Dean Walker on fri 27 dec 02
Hey, Mel, this Christo sounds cool. I will have to read up on him. It
reminds me of when guys at clay festivals do demos of various kinds. People
gather, enjoy and interact in the process of their creations. It's like going
to a great concert......you take it into your soul. It must have given his
work an extra dimension of power.
Dean
mel jacobson on fri 27 dec 02
the great public artist christo spent a great deal
of time working with his public. he prepared his
audience for the `event`.
i have always felt the preparation, the permits,
the interaction with authority, and the acceptance
of the plan is what makes `public art` worthy.
by bringing the public to the art, it becomes understood
and exciting.
after christo left a venue most people loved and
respected him.
when he arrived the scoffers all thought he was crazy.
he loved the interaction...and was quoted as saying `only in america
could you make enormous public art, and get the people to help you.`
it was the `getting the people to help you`, that made it all happen.
mel
christo was born in war torn europe.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Carol Ross on fri 27 dec 02
Mel, in spite of Christo's tremendous preparations, one of his beautiful
umbrella's killed an onlooker. Could he have been more cautious? Who could
say? The consequences can't always be foreseen.
Sigh.
What of Chris Burden? Joseph Beuys? The Dadaists? What part of our
artistic history are we willing to trim away to make art safe? Although
Burden's work was on the edge - and over it - for years, he now makes the
most fantastic installations (I witnessed the flight of a steam roller!)
some fraught with political statements. Judy Chicago's Dinner Party (love
it or hate it) is a most confrontational piece of work, thinly disguised as
place-settings for 48. [BTW, decades after it was made, it has finally
found a home in the Brooklyn Museum of Art.]
I agree, Mel, that preparation is important, should be mandatory. But it
takes Christo 10 years or more to get the funding and permissions... How
many of us can wait that long to make our art?
God, I wouldn't want my art to hurt Lili or Sam... Or anyone. But I DO want
my work to challenge. And that difference is not always clear or
clean-edged. How do I know when a piece that looks safe to me might trigger
a terrible fear in someone else? Yes, this young artist could have, SHOULD
have known better, but he said what many of us have wanted to forget... WE
ARE SCARED. Our fear has become palpable... it has built walls around us
and between us. Perhaps the best way is simply to walk around the boxes and
continue on our path...
Carol Ross
> the great public artist christo spent a great deal
> of time working with his public. he prepared his
> audience for the `event`.
>
> i have always felt the preparation, the permits,
> the interaction with authority, and the acceptance
> of the plan is what makes `public art` worthy.
>
> it was the `getting the people to help you`, that made it all happen.
> mel
> christo was born in war torn europe.
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
> or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
mel jacobson on fri 27 dec 02
the walker art center (minneapolis)had a chap in a few years back.
so called performance art.
he threw human blood on the audience. this was not a
statement about aids, gay rights, human rights...it was
meant to shock and sicken the audience.
art?
he sure sickened the audience.
he alone, (almost) had federal money for the arts pulled...forever.
the director of the walker defended the jerk for days in the press.
`it was his artistic right`....it was creative energy`....`blah, blah, blah.`
i have never given a cent to the walker to this day...and, until
i get an apology for that event...i will never give a penny.
they hold steadfast. as, do i.
it would be like me...going next door...painting the door of
my neighbors house black...setting up boxes with the
`n` word... he is african.
then tape his reaction to this. it is my `right` as an artist
to see what would happen.
b.s.
it is why i love being a craftsman. make things from
the start to finish. skill and experience.
never apologize. understand a complex, ages old system..
one that does not accept the `wrong answer`. one cannot
fake it. make things that people can drink soup from, eat
fish from. beautiful things that make my customers happy.
i can deliver a red plate, full of home made bread to my african
neighbor, hold his children and kiss them. make sure they keep
the plate. a gift. food and a plate to eat from.
i photograph the children. that is a reaction to keep.
smiling, beautiful black eyed children. never a bit of `fear`
when they see me at the door. i tape that reaction and keep
it in my mind. no fear.
mel
we are not doomed. the new year will happen.
hope for things to be better. do your part.
bring a plate of food to a neighbor. leave the plate.
be a giving clay person. a good thing to be.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Jim Brooks on sat 28 dec 02
Mel, you have given so much to this group..and you have a great deal of
earned and rightful respect!!! And then, sometimes I read your email and
think you are an egotistical butt.. and sometimes i read your emails and want
to hug your neck and walk beside you... this is one of those times. --- By
all means, leave the plate..as a gift. ......................
Thanks Mel, you are a great craftsman... I have been told that a Craftsman
is an artist with skill.. you have several kinds of skills we all need.
Please keep them coming -------------------- Happy New Year !!!!
Jim in Denton
Vince Pitelka on sat 28 dec 02
> Mel, in spite of Christo's tremendous preparations, one of his beautiful
> umbrella's killed an onlooker. Could he have been more cautious? Who
could
> say? The consequences can't always be foreseen.
It's a low blow to even mention this, and I wonder why you did. Christo's
umbrellas were engineered to withstand wind forces far greater than have
ever been recorded up the Grapevine above LA. What happened was a complete
fluke, a quirk of nature. Add to that unlikely occurrence the staggering
odds against anyone actually being "in the line of fire" when that umbrella
collapsed. We always want to blame someone, but this was just one of those
tragic oddities that happens now and then, where no one can be blamed. It
in no way reflects negatively on the viability of public art, or on Christo.
His response to this tragedy shows the stuff he is made of. As you no doubt
know, he was devastated by that accident, and out of respect for the
deceased he immediately cancelled the remaining run of the umbrella
installation in California and Japan.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Lee Love on sat 28 dec 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson" melpots@PCLINK.COM
> he alone, (almost) had federal money for the arts pulled...forever.
I have to question this. You have to wonder about the values of a
society that allows one idiotic person decide if art and culture should be
supported. Before the NEA money was axed, we spent more money on military
marching bands than we did on art.
If you want to know what a society values, look at how it spends its
money.
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan Ikiru@hachiko.com
"The first thing we must begin to teach our children (and learn ourselves) is
that we cannot spend and consume endlessly. We have got to learn to save and
conserve. We do need a 'new economy', but one that is founded on thrift and
care, on saving and conserving, not on excess and waste. An economy based on
waste is inherently and hopelessly violent, and war is its inevitable
by-product. We need a peaceable economy." ~~ Wendell Berry
Full Quote: http://hachiko.com/sustain.html
Carol Ross on sat 28 dec 02
Perhaps I didn't say it well, Vince. I'm in awe of Christo's work and have
been a great admirer for years. I remember my astonishment - no, childlike
wonderment - when I first saw a slide of his work! His installations bring
joy; his instincts for site and color are flawless. Beyond that, he is an
ethical artist who won't allow commercialism to compromise his work. When
Mel cited Christo as the ideal, I meant to say that even vast preparation
can't make things safe in what I know to be an unsafe world. I didn't
mention this tragedy to denigrate Christo's work, but to say that we're
human... We do our best, sometimes more than that... And yet there are
unpredictable elements...
Carol
>> Mel, in spite of Christo's tremendous preparations, one of his beautiful
>> umbrella's killed an onlooker. Could he have been more cautious? Who
> could
>> say? The consequences can't always be foreseen.
>
> It's a low blow to even mention this, and I wonder why you did. Christo's
> umbrellas were engineered to withstand wind forces far greater than have
> ever been recorded up the Grapevine above LA. What happened was a complete
> fluke, a quirk of nature. Add to that unlikely occurrence the staggering
> odds against anyone actually being "in the line of fire" when that umbrella
> collapsed. We always want to blame someone, but this was just one of those
> tragic oddities that happens now and then, where no one can be blamed. It
> in no way reflects negatively on the viability of public art, or on Christo.
> His response to this tragedy shows the stuff he is made of. As you no doubt
> know, he was devastated by that accident, and out of respect for the
> deceased he immediately cancelled the remaining run of the umbrella
> installation in California and Japan.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on sun 29 dec 02
Lee Writes in response to Mel:
<<<From: Lee Love
Subject: Re: public art
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson" melpots@PCLINK.COM
> he alone, (almost) had federal money for the arts pulled...forever.
<<that allows one idiotic person decide if art and culture should be supported.
Before the NEA money was axed, we spent more money on military marching
bands than we did on art.
Lee, because you are in Japan, I don't know how closely you were able to
follow these events, but I have a feeling that Mel is correct in his
statement. Every so often, the pendulum swings one way, and we wind up with a
Democratic President and a Democratic congress. When that happens, people
start looking at the expenditures of $600 hammers for the military. Then the
pendulum swings again and we wind up with Republican majorities. This group
seems to look askance at the NEA and puts that organization under a
microscope. Without discussing the virtues of the swings or what each side
looks at, it is necessary for officials in government to understand that this
is our political reality.
At a time when the Republicans had just taken over congress, the NEA got into
some hot water. The NEA funds some very valuable (JMHO) projects in various
arts, only a very small portion of which goes to individual artists. Two of
the individual artists were projects that may not have merited being done
WITH PUBLIC MONEY UNDER THE HEAT OF THE THEN CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE. (I
believe that the other was a photo of Jesus in a bottle of urine. To me, the
issue is WHETHER THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE WITH PUBLIC FUNDS. This is not to
suggest that I am against freedom of expression. Just that I am questioning
whether the funders of this project, in this case the Walker Center should
have put public funds into that project. They have funds available from
non-public sources, and they could have used those. If you just focus on THAT
and NOT on the merits of the project and artistic freedom, then it seems to
have been a very poor decision for the Walker Center and the NEA to delve
into these projects at the time that the new Congress was looking at the NEA.
Lee, many taxpayers seemed to agree, and at one point, there was
consideration in congress to stop the funding for the NEA. While that wasn't
(entirely) successful, I believe that funding was cut and that the programs
that got cut were those for individual artists.
Bob Bruch
Wes Rolley on sun 29 dec 02
--=======34C9177F=======
Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3371253E; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The entire discussion has been most enlightening. The town in which I=20
live, Morgan Hill, CA, USA, is on the fringe of Silicon Valley where the=20
few remaining orchards and vineyards are under constant threat of the next=
=20
subdivision or shopping center. We have recently opened a new "community=20
and cultural center" with, thank goodness, a ceramics room. I helped hang=
=20
an exhibit of regional art during the grand opening, as some of the space=20
was specifically designed for the display of art.
All of this was a prelude to the fact that having a space in which to=20
display art makes the City Council think of setting a policy for public=20
art. This is a conservative community where most people view art as a=20
Thomas Kinkade landscape print, which are manufactured at his headquarters=
=20
here.
The City Council will be holding a "workshop" early in 2003 to help develop=
=20
a policy for the acquisition of art by the City and (hopefully) for the=20
display of art in temporary exhibits on city property. I think that it=20
would be an object lesson to print out the threads on black boxes, public=20
art, consequences, etc. and provide those to the City Council prior to that=
=20
workshop. It is probably more legally proper to refer the council members=
=20
to the CLAYART archives to peruse on their own.
The specific issues involved in the fear of black boxes reach all the way=20
to the emotional depths of our minds. Most of the controversies over=20
public art involve the content, often symbolic. The destruction of Diego=20
Rivera's murals at Rockefeller Center are a case in point. Our local=20
controversy involves a mural at Gavilan Community College depicting "suits"=
=20
sitting on their thrones, reading their stock reports and defecating on the=
=20
working masses below.
It is interesting to speculate where this will take us. Our community has=
=20
recently established a sister city relationship with San Casciano Val di=20
Pesa near Florence, Italy. After visiting there, our mayor remarked on the=
=20
abundance of art that has endured for hundreds of year. I wonder what we=20
will purchase, receive, install that might last as long or still have=20
meaning after even fifty years.
Wes
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far too=
=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am=20
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
wrolley@charter.net
(408)778-3024
--=======34C9177F=======--
mel jacobson on thu 8 dec 05
we have a new one here in minneapolis.
10,000 dollar public art grant.
for a park site.
the artist bought a piece of scrap sandstone...flat about
four feet square/one inch thick. what do you think, 60 bucks?
had the stone/headstone guy laser the word `hope`
on the piece. what to you think, 50 bucks?
then it sits flat on the ground.
water, crap gets in the 1/16th inch laser cut.
almost gone the first year. sandstone is not very weather tolerant/flat
like that.
obviously the artist does not know diddle about stone/carving.
worthless piece of crap.
rip off.
but, people ohhh and ahhh...`look, the word hope`.
my my my.
it will last about two years...then gone.
i am sure the artist will just spend the money on shit.
thanks andy babe.
and that is the art period of the last 50 years.
impressionism was about 10 years.
from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Arnold Howard on thu 8 dec 05
From: "mel jacobson"
> we have a new one here in minneapolis.
> 10,000 dollar public art grant.
> for a park site.
> the artist bought a piece of scrap sandstone...flat about
> four feet square/one inch thick. water, crap gets in the 1/16th inch
> laser cut.
> almost gone the first year. sandstone is not very weather tolerant/flat
> like that.
I would like to see more fired clay environmental art. There isn't much of
it around. Mario Echevarria of Longmont, Colorado just finished producing
relief tiles for an outside wall of a museum. He made murals using 108 - 15"
x 16" stoneware tiles.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
steve graber on thu 8 dec 05
so, is this public art classified as "crap"?
see ya
steve
mel jacobson wrote:
we have a new one here in minneapolis.
10,000 dollar public art grant.
for a park site.
the artist bought a piece of scrap sandstone...flat about
four feet square/one inch thick. what do you think, 60 bucks?
had the stone/headstone guy laser the word `hope`
on the piece. what to you think, 50 bucks?
then it sits flat on the ground.
water, crap gets in the 1/16th inch laser cut.
almost gone the first year. sandstone is not very weather tolerant/flat
like that.
obviously the artist does not know diddle about stone/carving.
worthless piece of crap.
rip off.
but, people ohhh and ahhh...`look, the word hope`.
my my my.
it will last about two years...then gone.
i am sure the artist will just spend the money on shit.
thanks andy babe.
and that is the art period of the last 50 years.
impressionism was about 10 years.
from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
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Claire Normand on thu 8 dec 05
>I would like to see more fired clay environmental art. There isn't much of
>it around. Mario Echevarria of Longmont, Colorado just finished producing
>relief tiles for an outside wall of a museum. He made murals using 108 -
15"
>x 16" stoneware tiles.
>
The de Young museum in San Francisco has a nice installation of really big
stoneware apples in its sculpture garden. I tried to find a picture
online, only found they were made by Gustav and Ulla Kraitz.
They look really sturdy, kids sit and play with them, it's a nice, very
playful installation. I loved the copper red glaze, a good match to the
museum, I find the building itself is an ode to copper.
Claire, in Northern California
Helen Bates on fri 9 dec 05
On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 20:06:50 -0500, Claire Normand
wrote:
>The de Young museum in San Francisco has a nice installation of really big
>stoneware apples in its sculpture garden. I tried to find a picture
>online, only found they were made by Gustav and Ulla Kraitz.
>They look really sturdy, kids sit and play with them, it's a nice, very
>playful installation. I loved the copper red glaze, a good match to the
>museum, I find the building itself is an ode to copper.
>
>Claire, in Northern California
The apples are online here:
http://mishalov.com/deyoung-15oct05/pictures/img_5258.html
Look "yummy"!
Helen
(Belleville, Ontario)
PS: Search terms used were: Gustav Ulla Kraitz de Young museum San
Francisco (with no quotation marks.) -h.
Antoinette Badenhorst on fri 22 jan 10
Some time back I went through an airport that just have exquisite public in=
stalations and it raized my interest.
Anyone that has first hand experience in large projects that want to share =
their experiences with us? What does it involve and how much does it take a=
nd how many interaction with other people does it take? What kind of person=
ality does it take to do projects like this?
Antoinette Badenhorst
Lincolnshire, Illinoise
Rebecca Catterall on sat 23 jan 10
Hi Antoinette-=3D20
I was on a committee to help chose the public art for our new library tha=
=3D
t is=3D20
being built now. Our LA county supervisiors have set aside 1% of the budg=
=3D
et=3D20
of public buildings to go for public art. On a 15 million dollar buildin=
=3D
g you=3D20
can afford some nice work!
If you contact the agency funding a public project they will be pretty sp=
=3D
ecific=3D20
to what they are looking for. There probably are some common guidelines i=
=3D
n=3D20
these areas - have some sort of a track record for delivering a project o=
=3D
n=3D20
time, work in the scale they need, pay attention to restrictions and publ=
=3D
ic=3D20
safety issues (the potter who is making a broken chard entry way cannot=3D2=
0=3D
have a gloss glaze and the entry was placed inside due to weather issues)=
=3D
, be=3D20
able to read engineering/architectural plans to some degree to be able to=
=3D
=3D20
discuss, be familar with the use of the building or setting so your work =
=3D
fits,=3D20=3D20
That is off the top of my head. You can volunteer to work on a community=
=3D
=3D20
project to get the lay of the land and you can also write a grant (a task=
=3D
in=3D20
itself) to fund a project you want to make. One thing I noticed is that o=
=3D
nce an=3D20
artist gets the green light for one project and things work out, they bec=
=3D
ome=3D20
more attractive for another project.
We had about 60 submissions and a team of about 12 people (artists=3D20
including Nancy Rubin, the architect, an engineer, county arts commission=
=3D
=3D20
etc) narrowed the list to about 10. Those people came in and made=3D20
presentations. One artist was chosen for the bulk of the work and three o=
=3D
ther=3D20
artists were chosen for smaller projects for the library. It is going to=
=3D
be=3D20
incredible when done!
Good luck
Rebecca Catterall
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:32:19 +0000, Antoinette Badenhorst=3D20
wrote:
>Some time back I went through an airport that just have exquisite public=
=3D
=3D20
instalations and it raized my interest.
>
>
>Anyone that has first hand experience in large projects that want to sha=
=3D
re=3D20
their experiences with us? What does it involve and how much does it take=
=3D
=3D20
and how many interaction with other people does it take? What kind of=3D20
personality does it take to do projects like this?
>
>
>Antoinette Badenhorst
>Lincolnshire, Illinoise
dianamp@COMCAST.NET on mon 31 jan 11
Hi Clayart:
I have been making public art for about 30 years--
tile murals --mostly in hospitals, train stations, corporate buildings.
It was ALL privately financed, from donations.
No government money at all.
Hospitals have become secondary museums in a number of cities because docto=
rs
contribute money to buy art to enhance the hospitals they work in.
Diana Pancioli
Lee on mon 31 jan 11
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:06 PM, wrote:
> Hi Clayart:
>
>
> I have been making public art for about 30 years--
> tile murals --mostly in hospitals, train stations, corporate buildings.
>
>
> It was ALL privately financed, from donations.
> No government money at all.
>
>
Diana, does Michigan have % for arts program? Ours is explained here:
http://www.arts.state.mn.us/other/percent.htm
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Jeff Brown on mon 31 jan 11
Public funding goes to everything, including art education, weapons for=3D2=
0=3D
national security, journeyman carpenters(building government buildings)..=
=3D
.etc.,=3D20
perhaps it's all valid funding...Actually, a very small percentage of pub=
=3D
lic=3D20
money goes to public art grants.
The "Percent for Art" program calls for only a half percent of a public b=
=3D
uilding's=3D20
construction budget to be spent on art for that building...the very small=
=3D
=3D20
percentage of public money that goes to Public funding for art can be loo=
=3D
ked=3D20
at as support of the arts, for culture, for support of community, ...as=3D2=
0=3D
encouragement and inspiration for more Private funding of Public Art, and=
=3D
=3D20
thank God for private support of art...it pays more of my bills than publ=
=3D
ic=3D20
funding.=3D20
Thank you,
Jeff Brown
1423 Pottery Highway 705
Seagrove, NC 27341
http://www.jeffbrownpottery.com
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 17:44:08 -0600, mel jacobson =3D20
wrote:
>often we have no clue why public art is made, or
>who pays for it.
Snip....
i will do art for anyone that will pay me an
>honest wage,
>and never string me up. simple, old time commerce. work for pay.
>and, that is always noble. why is art somehow different than being
>a journeyman craftsman, carpenter?
>mel
>
dianamp@COMCAST.NET on tue 1 feb 11
Dear Clayart:
Mel asked me to tell you a little about making murals for public places.
First, one has to produce drawings and a maquette to present to a committee=
.
If they approve, then it is time to begin to make it.
Most of the murals required about 18 months to complete, from beginning to =
installation.
(I was also teaching much of that time.)
The time required to build each one depended on how much of the tile was ma=
de by me.
For some of the installations I was required to include historic Pewabic ti=
le,
which was already made (in the 1930's.) They took less time,
unless the mural was especially large, as was the first one I designed--150=
feet long
and 20 feet high. That one was created with Pewabic's staff, so I didn't pr=
oduce
it alone. I have also made murals which required that all the tiles be newl=
y made by me.
Those are the ones that took 18 months.
Some of the early drawings were not accepted by the person or persons who c=
ommissioned the work.
Then we had to negotiate and arrive at a satisfactory design, which require=
d more accommodation
on my part. If you would like to see a few of the projects I made, please l=
ook at "public art" on my
website: dianapancioli.com (Begin it with http://etc. etc.)
Sincerely,
Diana Pancioli
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