RPeckham@COOKSONELECTRONICS.COM on tue 20 aug 02
I use a 35 gallon trash can to recycle, and my son is always putting
food-stuff in it. Sometimes it gets quite rank. I just ignore it
figuring the bacteria, and algae will only help the clay.
Isn't this what the chinese did to age clay, throw a goat in a pit, or
urinate in the clay to encourage bacteria, algae, and other slimey things,
and maybe further break down the clay with acid by-products?
iandol on wed 21 aug 02
Dear Mel,
You say..."i keep a gallon of mixed cheap white vinegar and ammonia. =
always put that in a bucket of dry scrap (half cup). fill with water =
from the hose. (well water, and it too stinks.) let it sit for months."
Great fertiliser, that ammonia.
Your Brumbies and Steers could provide a cheaper and more user friendly =
source of Nitrogen to feed God's gift of bacterial. Another idea, for =
the squeamish, is to dissolve a handful of Urea Prill in a bucket or =
barrel of water and slake dried clay in that.=20
Makes great ten year clay.
Best regards,
Ivor. Redhill
Graeme Anderson on sun 25 aug 02
While we are on the subject of stinky clay - when I am preparing my clay, I
dig the clay, add the clay to water to make a slurry, sieve it, and dry it
on plaster slabs. Many years ago, I added sugar (frutose) to about 100
gallons of my clay slurry, to precipitate a lot of the salts in the clay.
It fermented. I felt like leaving town, a pig sty would have smelt nicer!!
Cheers. Graeme.
http://www.ceinternet.com.au/gemopal/
Ps. Yes, a lot of salts were precipitated, but with the sugar in the clay,
finger prints on the surface of the pot set hard, if the turning was not
done soon enough.
ilene richardson on sat 22 jan 05
I just found two boxes of clay that somehow got overlooked. Must be at =
least two years old! Still moisture visible in the bags... but open up =
the bag and WHAM!!!!! The stench will kill your nose.
Gross!
Ilene
Stephen on sun 23 jan 05
Before using bentonite or some other plasticizer, aging was and may still
be the best way to make thwe clay plastic. If you can't stand the smell
wedge it into some other clay and let it air a little. May not help but it
will make the other clay work better. and cut the smell some. I have used
anything from sour milk to yeast and beer to age my clay. It goes through a
very smelly period and then just smells like rich earth, sort of like
compost. You may not want to here what some folks do to age clay.
Stephen
Tig Dupre on tue 25 jan 05
-------------------------------<>-------------------------------
I just found two boxes of clay that somehow got overlooked. Must be at =
least two years old! Still moisture visible in the bags... but open up =
the bag and WHAM!!!!! The stench will kill your nose.
-------------------------------<>-------------------------------
Ilene,
Send that stuff MY WAY! It may stink, but I'll bet it throws like a dream. It's just well-aged, with a bunch of tiny bacteria doing their jobs. What you smell is the "end" result of bacteria eating the organic matter, and drinking the moisture, and evacuating the digested matter.
Yep. It may gross you out, but that's the smell of good clay. My personal test for clay that has been aged is the smell of a forest floor--musty, moldy, slighty rotten, a faint whiff of methane, like rotten leaves. GOOD CLAY!
Have fun with it,
Tig Dupre
in Port Orchard, Washington, USA
Weiland, Jeff on tue 25 jan 05
That aroma is the smell of great clay. Some of the best throwing clay I =
have ever had was in college. We had a Halloween party and had cider =
left over that nobody bothered to stick in the fridge. Came back from =
fall break to find a beautiful layer of fuzz floating on top. Professor =
told us to stick it in the reclaim and mix away. The vent fan could not =
keep up with the stench. When the stuff hit the wheels, everybody =
realized that it was "gold" and the grabbing commenced. It did not last =
long. I am not sure which I remember more...the plasticity of the clay =
or the smell. I have also been around several places that will throw in =
a six pack of cheap beer to get the process started. Again, the smell =
of good clay.
Jeff Weiland
Greenfield-Central High School
810 North Broadway
Greenfield, Indiana 46140
317-462-9211
jweiland@gcsc.k12.in.us
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
=3D?iso-8859-1?B?VGlnIER1cHLp?=3D on thu 30 sep 10
Dear Mudbuds=3D2C
In working the clay=3D2C pieces of your skin slough off and become food for=
t=3D
he bacteria that naturally live in the mud. The stinky part comes from the=
=3D
resultant excretions of the bacteria.
The posts on recycling stinky clay are right on! The bacterial action make=
=3D
s the clay more easily worked once it is pugged and wedged. Aged clay just=
=3D
plain works better because the microscopic plates that are the clay have m=
=3D
ore slippery surfaces. Newly made clay doesn't work as well as aged clay. =
=3D
I like mine to be about six months old before I work it=3D2C and when on t=
he=3D
wheel=3D2C I use a throwing slip made from trimmings and throwing water=3D=
2C s=3D
ieved twice. Talk about stinky! But=3D2C since I use less water in the th=
ro=3D
wing=3D2C I can work longer on the piece and make more complex forms.
In the past=3D2C I have used hydrogen peroxide in buckets of stinky clay to=
k=3D
ill off bacteria. Doesn't take a lot=3D2C just about a half cup mixed in w=
el=3D
l should do the job. You can practically hear the bacteria screaming=3D2C =
"O=3D
h=3D2C no!" I don't like to use chlorine bleaches because they release chl=
or=3D
ine gasses in the firing=3D2C same as a salt firing will release deadly chl=
or=3D
ine gas.
The post about using urine in slurry buckets is also correct. Urine is a s=
=3D
terile fluid=3D2C but a wonderful culture medium. Had a doctor tell me tha=
t =3D
under circumstances best left undescribed. I prefer to work in porcelain f=
=3D
or my teapots=3D2C mugs=3D2C bowls=3D2C and plates. I recycle all my trimm=
ings b=3D
ecause the porcelain I use is very expensive. When I get a five gallon buc=
=3D
ket of trimmings and slop=3D2C I add a little urine to the mix and let it s=
it=3D
for about six months to fully slake. Sieve the mix (which is REALLY smell=
=3D
y by this time)=3D2C and spread on a drying board. Wedge well (don't have =
ro=3D
om for a pug mill) and I have some of the most delightful clay ever! =3D20
I never tell my customers about what goes into the clay=3D2C and they don't=
a=3D
sk. Just as well. Mayor Mel tells a story of throwing a handful of seeds =
=3D
into slop buckets at the end of term when he was teaching=3D2C and the stud=
en=3D
ts' surprise when they returned to class to find little sprouts in the buck=
=3D
ets.
Clayton Bailey used to tell about his "horse clay." He added horse apples =
=3D
to his clay mix=3D2C blended in an old cement mixer. His claim was that th=
e =3D
natural methane in the horse poop made his firings quicker and reduced cost=
=3D
s for firing. I often wondered if he was putting us on=3D2C but never trie=
d =3D
it for myself.
Hope this finds you all well=3D2C and getting muddy every day=3D2C
Tig Dupre
in Port Orchard=3D2C WA
=3D
Maggie Furtak on fri 1 oct 10
Mine never seems to stink, but it throws beautifully. I'm assuming this is
because anaerobic bacterial action releases methane (and sulphur compounds?=
),
and aerobic bacterial decomposition doesn't. One test for pond health invo=
lves
rowing to the middle, poking a stick into the bottom, and seeing if the muc=
k
that sticks when you pull it up is stinky.
I give my recycle bucket a quick stir with my hand before I lay out slip to=
dry.
I lay out slip about twice a week. No anoxic pockets. No smell. At leas=
t, I
assume this is what is going on.
Ivor, I'm counting on you to correct my science!
-Maggie Furtak
Pate Ceramics
pateceramics.etsy.com
pateceramics.blogspot.com
781-956-1364
517 Fellsway East
Malden, MA 02148
Lili Krakowski on fri 1 oct 10
As pointed out by several, organic matter gets into clay and blah blah =3D
blah.
Three small advices: if you use chamois skin tie a piece of cork--real =3D
cork not the plastic stuff--to it by a string. (Dental floss is great) =3D
The cork will float and the chamois not disappear in the mud.
SCREEN your throwing water before reusing it, or adding to clay. I use =3D
a sieve made of fiberglass window screen. By the way. Thrift shops =3D
sell wooden picture frames. Many are two inches deep or so, and make =3D
great frames (you guessed!) to attach screening to for sieves. Use =3D
epoxy, not staples. (Staples and X-acto blades found in clay make up a =3D
whole chapter in my book: " ER Laughs")
And--a warm studio is an "enabler" (do love that term) for bacteria. =3D
As my studio is too cold to sustain life--No problem...Anyway. If you =3D
can, store your recycling buckets in a cool place...
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
David Woof on sat 2 oct 10
Hi Tig=3D2C=3D20
I liked your post=3D2C I didn't agree with everything you said=3D3B but it'=
s yo=3D
ur truth and some good stuff to provoke thought and discussion. A lesson we=
=3D
all can note is that always being right is not as important as asking the =
=3D
questions or making the statments that get others thinking as well. =3D20
=3D20
We know that Clayton had his fun whenever/however he could and the horse ap=
=3D
ples certainly were an early precursor to paper clay but the methane idea i=
=3D
s pure bunk. Horse manure is a carrier of tetanus so it is a wonder no one=
=3D
came down with "lockjaw" as they used to call it. =3D20
=3D20
(incidently copper sulfate is soluable=3D2C which property enhances absorbs=
io=3D
n thru the skin with toxic effect to you) probably not the best Idea as an =
=3D
anti bacterial for stinky clay!!!
I'd tell the story of Clayton's "archeological dig expeditions" complete wi=
=3D
th pith helmet=3D2C and his stained porcelain double jointed swivel "bones"=
t=3D
hat he would plant ahead of time at the prearranged "dig" site=3D3B except=
e=3D
nough folks have yelled at me or about me being infantile=3D2C juvenile=3D2=
C po=3D
litically incorrect bla bla so even though I thoroughly disagree I will jus=
=3D
t let the only bones of an extinct early California species of humans remai=
=3D
n a mystery except in the fertile minds of Clayton Baily and fellow creativ=
=3D
es and in the rememberances of those who accompanied Clayton and heard firs=
=3D
t hand his detailed and graffic explanation of why these bones were the sin=
=3D
gle causal factor in these early folks becoming extinct.=3D20
=3D20
That said=3D2C I prefer my clay to have an earthy mustyness that speaks of =
ea=3D
rth's fecund sensuality=3D2C of rich humus=3D2C of birth and forming=3D2C s=
eeds s=3D
prouting... and if I can't get it past my nose it has no place in my studio=
=3D
.=3D20
=3D20
To this end I quit peeing=3D2C pouring beer=3D2C coffee=3D2C ground up anyt=
hing m=3D
any years ago and began to add "starter" from natural clay deposits much as=
=3D
my local baker lets his starter for local sourdough develop from wild airb=
=3D
orne yeast spores that land in his sweetened wet flour starter mixture. =3D=
20
The bread's flavor changes with the seasons and subtly from batch to batch.=
=3D
You have to develope a "nose" to fully appreciate this bread just as I lov=
=3D
e my clay as a part of a life lived in sensual beauty. And yes I age this c=
=3D
lay many months ahead and some special reserve has been waiting for that sp=
=3D
ecial night for several years. =3D20
=3D20
At the college we go through so much so fast that I have=3D2C as many other=
s =3D
have=3D2C formulated a body that stands up well and is wonderfully plastic =
fo=3D
r wheel work right from the Soldner. Yup we still believe in=3D2C demonstr=
at=3D
e and teach the value of the whole dynamic of wedging.
The point I hope to leave behind is that clay doesn't have to stink to be g=
=3D
ood=3D2C That is a 60's idea and with our current knowledge about using the=
r=3D
ight materials one can start with a great plastic body which will only get =
=3D
better with some ageing and w/o the stink. Of course one person's stink is =
=3D
another's parfume so let's be at it with no judgments. Just get the damn po=
=3D
ts made!!!
=3D20
However trying new things will keep you and your brain flexible and more ab=
=3D
le to enjoy many more new and exciting things. I am going to honor an inv=
=3D
itation to joy ride up the switchbacks and down the woolie I-17 with a very=
=3D
alive lady pushing 90 in age and 120+ MPH in her little red Bugatti. If m=
=3D
y BGF (half her age) finds out=3D2C the stuff will no doubt hit the fan=3D3=
B(re=3D
ally=3D2C BGF will have wanted to come for the ride too) nothing like a lit=
tl=3D
e drama!!! And yous guys are worried about stinky clay!!! (Smiles)
=3D20
David Woof
______________________________________________
1. Stinky Clay
Posted by: "Tig Dupr=3DE9" tigdupre@MSN.COM=3D20
Date: Thu Sep 30=3D2C 2010 10:06 am ((PDT))
Dear Mudbuds=3D2C
In working the clay=3D2C pieces of your skin slough off and become food for=
t=3D
he bacteria that naturally live in the mud. The stinky part comes from the =
=3D
resultant excretions of the bacteria.
The posts on recycling stinky clay are right on! The bacterial action makes=
=3D
the clay more easily worked once it is pugged and wedged. Aged clay just p=
=3D
lain works better because the microscopic plates that are the clay have mor=
=3D
e slippery surfaces. Newly made clay doesn't work as well as aged clay. I l=
=3D
ike mine to be about six months old before I work it=3D2C and when on the w=
he=3D
el=3D2C I use a throwing slip made from trimmings and throwing water=3D2C s=
ieve=3D
d twice. Talk about stinky! But=3D2C since I use less water in the throwing=
=3D
=3D2C I can work longer on the piece and make more complex forms.
In the past=3D2C I have used hydrogen peroxide in buckets of stinky clay to=
k=3D
ill off bacteria. Doesn't take a lot=3D2C just about a half cup mixed in we=
ll=3D
should do the job. You can practically hear the bacteria screaming=3D2C "O=
h=3D
=3D2C no!" I don't like to use chlorine bleaches because they release chlor=
in=3D
e gasses in the firing=3D2C same as a salt firing will release deadly chlor=
in=3D
e gas.
The post about using urine in slurry buckets is also correct. Urine is a st=
=3D
erile fluid=3D2C but a wonderful culture medium. Had a doctor tell me that =
un=3D
der circumstances best left undescribed. I prefer to work in porcelain for =
=3D
my teapots=3D2C mugs=3D2C bowls=3D2C and plates. I recycle all my trimmings=
becau=3D
se the porcelain I use is very expensive. When I get a five gallon bucket o=
=3D
f trimmings and slop=3D2C I add a little urine to the mix and let it sit fo=
r =3D
about six months to fully slake. Sieve the mix (which is REALLY smelly by t=
=3D
his time)=3D2C and spread on a drying board. Wedge well (don't have room fo=
r =3D
a pug mill) and I have some of the most delightful clay ever!=3D20
I never tell my customers about what goes into the clay=3D2C and they don't=
a=3D
sk. Just as well. Mayor Mel tells a story of throwing a handful of seeds in=
=3D
to slop buckets at the end of term when he was teaching=3D2C and the studen=
ts=3D
' surprise when they returned to class to find little sprouts in the bucket=
=3D
s.
Clayton Bailey used to tell about his "horse clay." He added horse apples t=
=3D
o his clay mix=3D2C blended in an old cement mixer. His claim was that the =
na=3D
tural methane in the horse poop made his firings quicker and reduced costs =
=3D
for firing. I often wondered if he was putting us on=3D2C but never tried i=
t =3D
for myself.
Hope this finds you all well=3D2C and getting muddy every day=3D2C
Tig Dupre
in Port Orchard=3D2C WA
=3D20
=3D20
=3D20
=3D
ivor and olive lewis on sat 2 oct 10
Dear Maggie Furtak,
Methane, better known as "Fire Damp" is an odourless gas.
There is a function operating in aquatic environments known as the B.O.D,
short for Biochemical Oxygen Demand. When Oxygen needs of organisms in an
aqueous environment exceeds the amount of Oxygen in solution organisms that
produce noxious gases go into action.
If sulphates are in solution, such as Calcium Sulphate or otherwise Potter'=
s
Plaster which is slightly soluble, then anaerobic bacteria begin to produce
Hydrogen Sulphide, smelling of rotten eggs.
Thanks for the rap.
Regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
James Freeman on sat 2 oct 10
Verna...
I have been using a so-called porcelainous stoneware, or "b" clay
(made by a local manufacturer) for the past 6 or 7 years. While the
formulae are proprietary, and having no actual knowledge of same,
after doing a lot of reading I have arrived at the belief that such
clays derive their incredible plasticity from added organic
plasticizers. I suspect that they employ Additive A, from Lignotech
Industries, but it may well be another similar compound. Additive A
is a byproduct of the paper pulp production process (sorry for the
alliteration!), and is employed as a powerful plasticizer by the
industrial ceramic industry, though not yet adopted by we little guys.
If I am correct (and I may well be quite wrong), then this is likely
the source of the amplified "stinkage factor" which seems endemic to
such clay bodies. In my own reclaim bucket, everything below the top
inch or so of sludge turns a bluish black and is quite fetid. Often
the reclaimed clay is a blue grey color from the rotten clay, though
it of course still fires white. This "rotten" clay is, however,
marvelously plastic.
My own solution to the problem of the stench is to say aloud "Holy
sh*t, that STINKS!" as I am emptying out the slop bucket. Works like
a charm.
I hope this sheds some small light on the problem.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice.=3DA0 I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Verna wrote:
> I want to send sincere thanks to everyone who responded to my query. =3DA=
0 =3D
I
> really appreciated all the input.
> I am still confused why it is only one clay that does this, and it has do=
=3D
ne
> it consistently over the past 10 years.
>
> But take care everyone and continue helping each other. =3DA0This forum i=
s
> especially WOOOOOOODERFUL
> for those with no other way to get answers (small town).
>
> Verna
>
Verna on sat 2 oct 10
I want to send sincere thanks to everyone who responded to my query. I
really appreciated all the input.
I am still confused why it is only one clay that does this, and it has done
it consistently over the past 10 years.
But take care everyone and continue helping each other. This forum is
especially WOOOOOOODERFUL
for those with no other way to get answers (small town).
Verna
Lee Love on sat 2 oct 10
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Verna wrote:
> I want to send sincere thanks to everyone who responded to my query. =3DA=
0 =3D
I
> really appreciated all the input.
> I am still confused why it is only one clay that does this, and it has do=
=3D
ne
> it consistently over the past 10 years.
Clays with organics in them stink more easily
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
ivor and olive lewis on mon 4 oct 10
Dear James Freeman ,
1.You say
"I have arrived at the belief that such clays derive their incredible
plasticity from added organic plasticizers. " which I accept as a valid
opinion
But, given that Plastic Deformation is the permanent deformation of a solid
due to an applied stress, how would you objectively recognise or describe
"Incredible Plasticity" ??
2. If commercial clays are compounded with synthetic plasticisers then ther=
e
may be an opportunity for unscrupulous persons to substitute materials othe=
r
than clay that do not become plastic when mixed with water. Furthermore,
constant bacterial degradation of the synthetic additive would result in a
material that might not be of acceptable quality when reclaimed.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
James Freeman on mon 4 oct 10
Ivor...
I use "plasticity" in a colloquial potter's sense, referring to the a
characteristic whereby I can push the sh*t out of the clay and not
have it tear, collapse, buckle, or otherwise cause problems. In other
words, it moves where and how I want it to move without complaining
nor fighting me. For example, I used to throw with a commercial white
stoneware clay as well as a homemade brown, hippie stoneware clay.
When I switched to the porcelainous stoneware "b" clay (Rovin's You
Betcha Mix), the size of my vessels increased by about 30 percent
while still using the same weight of clay. I currently throw my vases
less than 1/8th inch thick, sometimes down to 1/16th inch, something
which was quite impossible with the stoneware clays I had previously
used. So I guess the answer to your question is that I don't really
objectively recognize or describe it, but am rather content with my
subjective understanding, which I believe a lot of potters can
understand and relate to.
The reclaim from this clay is also incredibly "plastic". If the
plasticizer has broken down as you suggest, then perhaps the rotting
of the clay is compensating. Either way, I don't really know, so
sadly have no answer for you. Sorry I can't be of more help.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice.=3DA0 I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 2:49 AM, ivor and olive lewis
wrote:
> Dear James Freeman ,
> 1.You say
> "I have arrived at the belief that such clays derive their incredible
> plasticity from added organic plasticizers. " which I accept as a valid
> opinion
>
> But, given that Plastic Deformation is the permanent deformation of a sol=
=3D
id
> due to an applied stress, how would you objectively recognise or describe
> "Incredible Plasticity" ??
>
> 2. If commercial clays are compounded with synthetic plasticisers then th=
=3D
ere
> may be an opportunity for unscrupulous persons to substitute materials ot=
=3D
her
> than clay that do not become plastic when mixed with water. Furthermore,
> constant bacterial degradation of the synthetic additive would result in =
=3D
a
> material that might not be of acceptable quality when reclaimed.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ivor Lewis,
> REDHILL,
> South Australia
>
ivor and olive lewis on tue 5 oct 10
Dear James Freeman,
Thank your for that summation of the attributes of your clay types.
If the forms you are producing with an identical mass of new clay are thirt=
y
percent taller and you have reduced your wall thickness by over fifty
percent then I think you are giving an objective assessment of the tenacity
of that incredible plastic clay.
Regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
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