Leland G. Hall on fri 16 aug 02
Greetings all.
I've been throwing some 18 to 26 inch pots for raku lamps. They sell
well. I am by no stretch of the imagination a "master potter". Only been
doing this for a while. The big stuff is still a struggle for me, and I
can only pull it off by throwing two seprate pieces, then joining them. I
read a facinating article in Jan/Feb Clay Time about Ramon Camarillo. What
a potter! What a guy! Any way, I see that he is throwing pots this size
by "throwing upside-down"! This amazes me!! I've got to try this. Any
one else have experience with this technique? Tips? Pros and Cons?
Thanks in advance for any input. Another question is what should my
expectations be of myself as far as height. I mean I understand that it
takes practice and skill, but I'm too new to this to know what the natural
limits are, as far as pulling up tall cylinders. Or are there any? I
can't seem to manage any more that about 13 pounds of clay, and still keep
a narrow foot. Does this make sense or do I just not know what the heck
I'm doing? In other words, should I set as a goal for myself, learning to
throw 20 and 25 pound tall, narrow footed vessels in one piece, or is this
beyond the natural limitations of the process?
Leland Hall
Before The Wheel Enterprises
La Pine, Oregon
Pat Southwood on sat 17 aug 02
Dear Leland
I had this problem, with tall thin cylinders the top wavers once you get
beyond a certain height, however well centered you stay. I worked out
eventually that it was my short little arms that were some of the problem,
cos instead of the clay being beneath you it is above you.
I ended up standing on the seat of my wheel and had a bag of clay on the
foot pedal to keep it at the right speed.
It worked, but I am glad no one saw me!
best wishes.
Pat.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leland G. Hall"
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 1:26 AM
Subject: throwing upside-down
> Greetings all.
>
> I've been throwing some 18 to 26 inch pots for raku lamps. They sell
> well. I am by no stretch of the imagination a "master potter". Only been
> doing this for a while. The big stuff is still a struggle for me, and I
> can only pull it off by throwing two seprate pieces, then joining them. I
> read a facinating article in Jan/Feb Clay Time about Ramon Camarillo.
What
> a potter! What a guy! Any way, I see that he is throwing pots this size
> by "throwing upside-down"! This amazes me!! I've got to try this. Any
> one else have experience with this technique? Tips? Pros and Cons?
> Thanks in advance for any input. Another question is what should my
> expectations be of myself as far as height. I mean I understand that it
> takes practice and skill, but I'm too new to this to know what the natural
> limits are, as far as pulling up tall cylinders. Or are there any? I
> can't seem to manage any more that about 13 pounds of clay, and still keep
> a narrow foot. Does this make sense or do I just not know what the heck
> I'm doing? In other words, should I set as a goal for myself, learning to
> throw 20 and 25 pound tall, narrow footed vessels in one piece, or is this
> beyond the natural limitations of the process?
>
> Leland Hall
> Before The Wheel Enterprises
> La Pine, Oregon
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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melpots@pclink.com.
Mike Gordon on sat 17 aug 02
Leland,
Throwing 25lbs. of clay is well within your limits and capabilities. I
teach h.s. students to do it all the time. The biggest limit is the
length of your arm! I make the inside bottom of my cylinders 5-6" in
diameter and then trim the excess clay when making the foot. Sometimes
the extra clay at the bottom helps stabelize the cylinder while shaping
it. Good luck, Mike Gordon
Lee Love on sun 18 aug 02
Isn't this how they all throw in New Zealand, Australia and South Africa? ;^)
--
Lee Love Ikiru@hachiko.com
Mashiko JAPAN
"Really there is no East, no West,
Where then is the South and the North?
Illusion makes the world close in,
Enlightenment opens it on every side."
- Japanese Pilgrim's Verse.
Leland G. Hall on sun 18 aug 02
Well, Lee, I hadn't thought of that. And when you caused me to think of it
I busted out laughing!! All those potters down in those places hanging
upside-down. And hurling through space while while ma earth spins too!!
How do they keep their bats on the wheel heads? Seems like they would fall
off into space. And doesn't their change fall out of their pockets? If they
can pull off this stunt I guess I can learn to throw tall. Maybe I should
move down to some where where I can live up-side down. I have a really
fouled up spine, and inversion therapy or gravity boots have been suggested
to me as a method of pain relief, so why not just live and work up-side
down? (might need new bats though, or change to clay patties) Any way,
thanks Lee, and others with thoughts on this.
Leland Hall
Before The Wheel Enterprises
La Pine, Oregon
"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, their yours." Donald
Shimoda, I think
On Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:45:28 +0900, Lee Love wrote:
> Isn't this how they all throw in New Zealand, Australia and South
Africa? ;^)
>
>--
>Lee Love Ikiru@hachiko.com
> Mashiko JAPAN
>
> "Really there is no East, no West,
>
> Where then is the South and the North?
>
> Illusion makes the world close in,
>
> Enlightenment opens it on every side."
>
> - Japanese Pilgrim's Verse.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Caroline Niebres on tue 20 aug 02
Ruth,
I got in this a bit late... so forgive me if my questions sound stupid.
How do you do this exactly? I understand about under cutting and then
pulling up, but what do you mean by throwing down?
Caroline Niebres
Hudson, WI
On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:55:13 -0400, Ruth Ballou
wrote:
>Craig,
>
>I have to assure you that Ivor is not joking in the least..... Throwing
>down is a great tool to gain some extra height on both cylinders and
>bowls.... without counting against your three pulls..... It's kind of a
>freebie. Another way to think of it is that the clay is propelled downward
>with some force, hits the wheelhead and rebounds back up because it has no
>where else to go! And to make it really work well you must make and
>maintain an undercut on the outside at the base of the wall for a cylinder
>or at the base of the foot on a bowl. Otherwise, the clay molecules move
>downward and decide to stay there with the rest of their buddies. In
>regular throwing, having an undercut enables you to get under the base of
>the pot a bit and throw the entire wall, making for a lively pot. Clay and
>metal or plastic have a terrific affinity for each other. Overcoming this
>attraction is difficult. Hence, bottom heavy cylinders with extra clay at
>the base of the inside wall and bowls with inner feet. An undercut breaks
>the attraction. Frequently, on a pull, some clay escapes downward due to
>gravity. If there is an undercut, the clay that moves downward can collect
>in the void on the outside of the pot and easily be removed with a 45 tool
>prior to the next pull. A straight cut on the outside with a tool will not
>have the same effect. Without the undercut the clay collects both on the
>inside and outside, increasing the attraction between clay and metal, and
>making it harder with each subsequent pull to throw the entire wall to
>create a lively unified pot. So many pots end up being two pots..... one
>part thrown, one part trimmed to do what was not properly thrown in the
>first place.......The trick is unifying throwing and trimming so that the
>second is an extension of the first......not something to repair poor
>throwing. Whoops...... I've gone a bit afield from downward throwing......
>
>Ruth Ballou
>Silver Spring, MD
>
>
>> Ivor, that's pretty good...even believable, though I'm more than
>>slightly skeptical. I'll try throwing down the pot to "extrude" a taller
>>form and see how it works meself. I've thrown down the pot before to
stiffen
>>and stretch the walls, but this one is new to me. I suspect that there is
>>more than a bit of jest or sarcasm in the post, eh? May have something to
do
>>throwing things "down under", being upside down on the "bottom" (ha-ha) of
>>the world, whirlpools going bass akwards and all that other good stuff
down
>>there.
>>Craig Dunn Clark
>>619 East 11 1/2 st
>>Houston, Texas 77008
>>(713)861-2083
>>mudman@hal-pc.org
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "iandol"
>>To:
>>Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 1:56 AM
>>Subject: : Re: throwing upside-down
>>
>>
>>Dear Lee Love,
>>
>>You ask...."Isn't this how they all throw in New Zealand, Australia and
>>South Africa? ;^)..."
>>
>>Absolutely my friend, absolutely.
>>
>>Was doing something like this today. I throw down rather than pull
upwards.
>>Because clay is incompressible, or almost so, the clay extrudes upwards.
>>Exploits the physical and mechanical properties of our plastic earth. Best
>>way to make tall pots. Methodology known to some Orientals a thousand
years
>>or so ago. Now a lost skill.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Ivor
>>
>>__________________________________________________________________________
__
>>__
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>>__________________________________________________________________________
____
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ruth Ballou on wed 21 aug 02
>Ruth,
>
>I got in this a bit late... so forgive me if my questions sound stupid.
>
>How do you do this exactly? I understand about under cutting and then
>pulling up, but what do you mean by throwing down?
>
>Caroline Niebres
>Hudson, WI
Caroline,
Not a stupid question at all!
Obviously, this is a lot easier to see. There are probably many ways to
throw down, depending on the hand postions used to throw upward. Here's how
I do it...... based on how I throw. This may be more detail than you want
or need, but it's the only way I can explain it! My hands are offset
slightly on an upward pull. At the beginning of a pull, I create a ridge of
clay at the base of the wall. This ridge is very important because I can
send it up to the rim of the pot if my hands are properly positioned. It's
a little like catching a wave in surfing, which I did successfully about
twice many years ago. But I'll never forget the ride......If the hands are
positioned properly and the speed with which you move is properly
coordinated with the speed of the wheel,that ridge will fly to the top of
the pot and you will just be trying to keep up to maintain the ridge. For a
bowl, the inside hand is slightly below the outside hand and the ridge is
formed on the inside. The index and middle fingers of the right hand pull
back slightly and the outside hand (fingertips to the clay) directs clay
into the created gap. For a cylinder, the hand position is reversed, with
the outside hand slightly below the inside hand and the ridge is flipped
from the inside to the outside. The idea being here that the hand that
touches last helps determine the shape of the piece as that hand will be
pressing outward for a bowl and inward for a cylinder. In both cases, the
clay moves in an S through the hands. as it is sent from one hand to the
other and finally to the top of the piece. Think about how you are
directing the clay to where you want it to go and how the turning of the
wheel helps. To throw down, the whole process is reversed as the hands
follow the ridge downward.
That's the basics.... the whole process can be fine tuned and moderated
depending on how much clay you're trying to move, whether you're using
knuckles or fingertips, a rib, etc. When you get really good, you'll
figure out how to double throw.... creating a secondary smaller ridge and s
curve with the lower fingers.
Hope this clears the water, not muddies it.
Ruth Ballou
Silver Spring, MD
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