Dave Murphy on thu 4 jul 02
I can't believe people still would want lead or barium in their studios let
alone on pots of any kind. There is so much other stuff to last more
lifetimes than you could count. Funny seeing the comment about diesel fuel
on tugboats, some time ago when we switched to unleaded gas I heard that
manganese was replacing it to raise the octane, at least here in Canada. I
don't know if it is true or not but interesting, n'est pas?
Barbara Murphy
Waterloo County Pottery
Waterloo Ontario
Canada
Dewitt Gimblet on fri 5 jul 02
At 15:26 7/5/02 -0700, Valice Raffi wrote:
>Barium is also an ingredient in lipstick!
Barium carbonate is poisonous. Barium sulfate is not. If barium is used
in lipstick, dollars to donuts that it's barium sulfate.
deg
June Perry on fri 5 jul 02
What most people don't know if manganese is used in hair coloring! When I had
some tests done a few years ago, I had nickel and manganese in my system even
though I didn't use any glazes with either of these materials.
Later I found that my hair dye had managanese, cigarettes (which I smoked for
20 years) contain nickel as does soldering materials. We're also probably
getting a lot of interesting things in the air we breathe as well as the
water we drink (lots of water supplies contain barium, and probably some
other interesting things!)
As another clayarter mentioned, many of the materials we use are dangerous --
silica, chrome, copper carbonate, nickel, vanadium pentoxide, potassium
bichromate, the fiber in kilns, etc. etc.
I still have barium carbonate in my studio and will use if with the same
discretion and safety in mind that I use copper carb and other potentially
dangerous materials.
I did some research on the toxicity of barium and from what I read of the
toxicology reports, on line, barium does not accumulate in the body as can
other things and you have you ingest or breathe a lot of it to do harm. In
the right amount and in a well balanced glaze it won't leach and neither will
copper or any of the other materials we use.
Too much nutmeg will kill you as will drinking too much water at one time,
and too much iron in one's system can cause heart attacks; but that doesn't
stop us from using these things in a responsible manner. I think the same
thing hold true with the majority of glaze materials at our disposal. It's a
matter of using good studio hygiene practices, good glaze chemistry and
then test for durability and leaching glazes you are using for functional
ware.
There are a lot of us in our 60's and older out there who didn't get good
information thirty years ago, about the dangers of some of these materials;
but it's amazing how many old timers who used these materials for 40 and 50
years are still alive and kicking and still working. Maybe they just have
very special angels on their shoulders. :-)
Warm regards,
June
Valice Raffi on fri 5 jul 02
>What most people don't know if manganese is used in hair coloring! We're
>also >probably getting a lot of interesting things in the air we breathe
>as well as >the water we drink (lots of water supplies contain barium, and
>probably some
>other interesting things!)
Barium is also an ingredient in lipstick! And I had a roommate in the 60's
who'd heard you could get high from nutmeg, so she tried it. I don't know
if she got high, but she sure did get weird - later wound up on one of
those "dangers of drugs" tv shows (don't know for sure if it was the
nutmeg, maybe that led to stronger stuff).
Valice
in Sacramento
Ababi on sat 6 jul 02
Hello June
This is a regular mistake.
Once a clayarter wrote: "Cobalt? It is healthy I need to have it, they add it to vitamins"
and so on. I know there is kind of test where they give to the patient barium. I know
Lithium is a medicine I know they add silica to salt to keep it dry.
There are two points
1) the amounts: The patient that gets the barium, he does not have on hand 2000
grams of barium In the vitamins you are not having 200 grams free to use of cobalts.
or lithium or copper sulfate like we do have.
2) Where and what I can control: I cannot control the water supply or the cigarets I
smoked or the fast popping bread I bought. So I can control only what I have on my
hand.
Just another thing to think about. When I sprayed the raku kiln's refractory alumina
blanket I added blue food color to see where I had done it.
After the next raku firing (^08) there was left over from the paint/ color!
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
---------- Original Message ----------
>What most people don't know if manganese is used in hair coloring! When I had
>some tests done a few years ago, I had nickel and manganese in my system even
>though I didn't use any glazes with either of these materials.
>Later I found that my hair dye had managanese, cigarettes (which I smoked for
>20 years) contain nickel as does soldering materials. We're also probably
>getting a lot of interesting things in the air we breathe as well as the
>water we drink (lots of water supplies contain barium, and probably some
>other interesting things!)
>As another clayarter mentioned, many of the materials we use are dangerous --
>silica, chrome, copper carbonate, nickel, vanadium pentoxide, potassium
>bichromate, the fiber in kilns, etc. etc.
>I still have barium carbonate in my studio and will use if with the same
>discretion and safety in mind that I use copper carb and other potentially
>dangerous materials.
>I did some research on the toxicity of barium and from what I read of the
>toxicology reports, on line, barium does not accumulate in the body as can
>other things and you have you ingest or breathe a lot of it to do harm. In
>the right amount and in a well balanced glaze it won't leach and neither will
>copper or any of the other materials we use.
>Too much nutmeg will kill you as will drinking too much water at one time,
>and too much iron in one's system can cause heart attacks; but that doesn't
>stop us from using these things in a responsible manner. I think the same
>thing hold true with the majority of glaze materials at our disposal. It's a
>matter of using good studio hygiene practices, good glaze chemistry and
>then test for durability and leaching glazes you are using for functional
>ware.
>There are a lot of us in our 60's and older out there who didn't get good
>information thirty years ago, about the dangers of some of these materials;
>but it's amazing how many old timers who used these materials for 40 and 50
>years are still alive and kicking and still working. Maybe they just have
>very special angels on their shoulders. :-)
>Warm regards,
>June
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
iandol on sat 6 jul 02
Dear Valice Raffi=20
Nutmeg is a Hallucinogen. But the distinction between an active and a =
toxic dose is marginal. The white latex juice in Lettuce can produce a =
euphoric state leading to unconsciousness, similar in action to Poppy =
juice. Basil contains something which leads to weird dreaming if =
ingested in the evening.
Yes, there are some interesting things around us for experimentation.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
June Perry on sat 6 jul 02
Ababi,
You may want to re-read my original message. In no way did I say that Barium
carbonate is safe. I mentioned that the toxicology reports give very clear
information on barium and that it, like other potentially toxic materials can
be used in our studios if proper care is taking in handling and glaze
formulation and testing.
And, also, you mentioned barium in Xrays. That is not barium carbonate, by
the way, that is barium sulphate, which is a safe material. It is only when
heated, that it converts to the toxic form.
Our studios are loaded with potentially toxic/dangerous materials from talc,
silica, clay dust, chrome, copper carb, lithium, and on and on. It is up to
us to use these things with care and with full knowledge of their potential
hazards both in our studios and in our glazes.
Warm regards,
June
Ababi on sat 6 jul 02
I am sorry June if I did not understand your words clearly
Could be not understanding clearly, it happens to me from time to time though I am
getting better ( with the English)
Ababi
---------- Original Message ----------
>Ababi,
>You may want to re-read my original message. In no way did I say that Barium
>carbonate is safe. I mentioned that the toxicology reports give very clear
>information on barium and that it, like other potentially toxic materials can
>be used in our studios if proper care is taking in handling and glaze
>formulation and testing.
>And, also, you mentioned barium in Xrays. That is not barium carbonate, by
>the way, that is barium sulphate, which is a safe material. It is only when
>heated, that it converts to the toxic form.
>Our studios are loaded with potentially toxic/dangerous materials from talc,
>silica, clay dust, chrome, copper carb, lithium, and on and on. It is up to
>us to use these things with care and with full knowledge of their potential
>hazards both in our studios and in our glazes.
>Warm regards,
>June
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy on sat 6 jul 02
Hi Barbar,
Lead in gas was replaced with Manganse everywhere you can buy unleaded gas
- Quebec wanted to ban it but was sued by Exon. It's going to be an on
going issue and in the end it will have to be replaced with something else.
RR
> Funny seeing the comment about diesel fuel
>on tugboats, some time ago when we switched to unleaded gas I heard that
>manganese was replacing it to raise the octane, at least here in Canada. I
>don't know if it is true or not but interesting, n'est pas?
>
>Barbara Murphy
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Ron Roy on sat 6 jul 02
And some of us didn't - I for one have a slight case of silicosis for
instance. The problem is - if we do find a problem - some times it's too
late. As it is there are some things I just can't do anymore.
RR
>There are a lot of us in our 60's and older out there who didn't get good
>information thirty years ago, about the dangers of some of these materials;
>but it's amazing how many old timers who used these materials for 40 and 50
>years are still alive and kicking and still working. Maybe they just have
>very special angels on their shoulders. :-)
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
June Perry on sun 7 jul 02
Hi Ron,
I think a lot of us have less than perfect lung capacity from studio
practices decades ago. You probably have more than the rest because of those
years of mixing and selling clay, exposing yourself to a greater extent to
the raw materials than the average studio potter.
I'm pretty convinced that my own ignorance of the dangers of many raw
materials, from improper teaching and my own lack of research in those
times, caused a weakeness in my own respiratory system for years, which
resulted in several bouts of upper respiratory infections a year.
Fortunately I haven't had to deal with that for the past ten years after
boosting my immune system with various and sundry herb, colloidal silver,
etc.
I also had some blood cleaning done at that time, to remove some of the lead
(which I never used in my studio by the way, other than a one time small
batch of raku glaze that I only used once!), manganese (again, not used in
any of my glazes in those years, but came from hair dyes, etc.), nickel
(rarely used, but I had smoked in the 60's and 70's and used soldering
materials in my silversmithing).
It was interesting to see that most of the overload of chemicals in my body,
came from other than studio sources. I had copper in my system which could
be attributed to studio use, but I also suspect that a lot of that may have
come from that expensive copper plumbing in our house!
I would suggest if anyone is having recurrent health problems to spend the
$125 or whatever the cost it is these days, and get tested. There is a hair
test which, when I had it was around $65 that can be done as a preliminary
test, but the blood test is a better indication of mineral overload in ones
system and if the hair test shows high levels of metal, the doctor would
probably want to do the other test as well, so it would probably be more cost
effective to just get the blood test.
Warm regards,
June
pammyam on sun 7 jul 02
This is amazing. Not ten minutes ago I was remarking to my
husband that I have been dreaming more vividly for longer
periods of time and in great detail. I have always had
memorable dreams off and on, but nothing like this. Last
night was especially "bad." We had a very late dinner that
included a salad of pears, fresh mozarella, tomaotes, olive
oil, champagne vinegar, and---lots of fresh basil.
----- Original Message -----
From: "iandol"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:35 AM
Subject: Re: manganese again
Dear Valice Raffi
Nutmeg is a Hallucinogen. But the distinction between an
active and a toxic dose is marginal. The white latex juice in
Lettuce can produce a euphoric state leading to
unconsciousness, similar in action to Poppy juice. Basil
contains something which leads to weird dreaming if ingested
in the evening.
Yes, there are some interesting things around us for
experimentation.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
_____________________________________________________________
_________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Steve Mills on mon 8 jul 02
WOW! I knew salads are great, but getting high as well! Just think what
a little nutmeg and the odd magic mushroom could add to the experience!
:-))
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , pammyam writes
>This is amazing. Not ten minutes ago I was remarking to my
>husband that I have been dreaming more vividly for longer
>periods of time and in great detail. I have always had
>memorable dreams off and on, but nothing like this. Last
>night was especially "bad." We had a very late dinner that
>included a salad of pears, fresh mozarella, tomaotes, olive
>oil, champagne vinegar, and---lots of fresh basil.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "iandol"
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:35 AM
>Subject: Re: manganese again
>
>
>Dear Valice Raffi
>
>Nutmeg is a Hallucinogen. But the distinction between an
>active and a toxic dose is marginal. The white latex juice in
>Lettuce can produce a euphoric state leading to
>unconsciousness, similar in action to Poppy juice. Basil
>contains something which leads to weird dreaming if ingested
>in the evening.
>
>Yes, there are some interesting things around us for
>experimentation.
>
>Best regards,
>Ivor Lewis.
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>_________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your
>subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Kym Valvieja on sat 25 jan 03
Dear Clayart folks,
Recently I wrote to the list about the health problems that could occur when
working with Manganese, particularly the dark brown, cone 5 clay, called B-3
from Laguna. I received replies that it is harmful when in powder form and
to use caution when firing it. I am wondering after the final firing if it
is food safe? Thanks for all your help.
Best,
Kym
Snail Scott on sun 26 jan 03
At 12:07 PM 1/25/03 EST, you wrote:
>...Manganese...clay, called B-3
>from Laguna. I received replies that it is harmful when in powder form and
>to use caution when firing it. I am wondering after the final firing if it
>is food safe?
Yes. The hazard from manganese is from
(mainly) inhalation of firing fumes, and
(secondarily) inhalation of fine dust.)
A careless maker is potentially at risk,
but not the user of the end product.
-Snail
| |
|
