Snail Scott on fri 19 apr 02

At 06:15 PM 4/18/02 -0400, you wrote:
>However, even though the package says Welding Goggles, the label inside
says "do not use for arc welding, lasers, or other sources of intense
radiant energy". Whatever that means.
>Do they sound like they will be OK for peeking into the spyholes?


There's welding, and then there's WELDING!
Goggles which are fine for oxy-acetylene
welding are utterly inadequate for arc
welding. They will be fine for kiln-
viewing, though.

-Snail

Snail Scott on fri 19 apr 02

At 07:31 PM 4/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
>...I bought a welding mask.I bought a 10 which was the number through
>which I could barely make out the store's burning electric lights. Does
this
>sound safe for looking at cones through the peep hole?


Sounds like overkill, actually! Even at ^10, a kiln
is nowhere near as bright as arc welding. A less-
dark lens will be fine. If you can see you cones OK
with it, keep it, but if you can't, you may want to
exchange it for a lighter-colored lens.

Remember, the darkness is for your convenience in
seeing. It's not what stops the harmful radiation,
which isn't in the visible spectrum. That's why
the almost-clear glassblowers' glasses are just
as good for safety. (They're what I use.)

-Snail

william schran on fri 19 apr 02

Marianne - you asked about using welding glasses that warn: "do not
use for arc welding, lasers, or other sources of intense radiant
energy". Whatever that means.
It means kilns at and above visible red heat emit intense radiant
energy so these glasses may not be suitable. I'm sure others will way
in with their opinion.
Bill

Tim Lynch on fri 19 apr 02

Does anyone have any experience with the auto-darkening welding
goggles/helmet? The hardest part of welding for me is seeing what I am
about to weld.

Tim


--
Tim Lynch
The Clay Man
1117 Tedford St SE
East Wenatchee, WA 98802
hifired@earthlink.net

> Marianne,
> You need to try to find out what kind of glass is in your goggles.
> Typically, for arc #10 welding glass is needed. For kiln work, #5 welding
> glass is fine. Both protect your eyes from dangerous, long-wavelength,
> infrared light.
> Glad you are protecting your eyesight!
> Dave Finkelnburg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marianne Lombardo
>
> I bought some welding goggles today to use to look at the cones in the
kiln.
> They only cost $15.00 so I don't know how good they are but they look like
> the same thing in Tucker's catalog.
>
> However, even though the package says Welding Goggles, the label inside
says
> "do not use for arc welding, lasers, or other sources of intense radiant
> energy". Whatever that means.
>
> Do they sound like they will be OK for peeking into the spyholes?
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.

vince pitelka on fri 19 apr 02

>...I bought a welding mask.I bought a 10 which was the number through
>which I could barely make out the store's burning electric lights. Does
this
>sound safe for looking at cones through the peep hole?

Complete overkill. You won't be able to see the cones at all. Pass this on
to someone doing arc welding, and buy some gas welding goggles/glasses.
Best wishes -
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/

vince pitelka on fri 19 apr 02

> Does anyone have any experience with the auto-darkening welding
> goggles/helmet? The hardest part of welding for me is seeing what I am
> about to weld.

Tim -
These are of course entirely inappropriate for viewing cones in kilns, but
for arc welding they are the cat's meow. They are a little pricey, but they
work great. I learned welding from an old-school navy welder, and he taught
me how to flip my welding helmet down when I am ready to strike the arc, so
I have never invested in an auto-darkening helmet. But I have tried them,
and they really do work very well. They darken much faster than your optic
nerve can detect the arc, so there is no danger to your eyes at all as long
as they are working properly.
Best wishes -
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/

Mark Potter on fri 19 apr 02

Tim,

I sympathize - you're probably beginning to wear glasses for reading, and of
fair complexion. Your eyes just can't take the contrasts presented by a
welding spark. I've been through this so here's what I've learned:

First of all get some really bright lights - photographer's lamps, the
bigger wattage the better, to light the hell out of the work area. This will
reduce the contrast a lot so you'll be able to see without blinding
yourself. Your lights ideally should be really tough, to take the banging
and clanging of the steel work area, perhaps you can adapt a welder's clamp
to hold a worklight. I haven't seen what welding worklamps are available . .
but you should be able to make something.

Put white surfaces beside and beneath the welding area. This will reduce
contrast and throw light back on the job.

Then look into the auto darkening helmets. They're terrific. But the light
thing once you're going will make the biggest difference.

And then practice, practice, practice. That's all I can say. Welding is
having an instinct of where to move once it gets real dark..

-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Tim Lynch
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 11:40 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Welding Goggles


Does anyone have any experience with the auto-darkening welding
goggles/helmet? The hardest part of welding for me is seeing what I am
about to weld.

Tim


--
Tim Lynch
The Clay Man
1117 Tedford St SE
East Wenatchee, WA 98802
hifired@earthlink.net

> Marianne,
> You need to try to find out what kind of glass is in your goggles.
> Typically, for arc #10 welding glass is needed. For kiln work, #5 welding
> glass is fine. Both protect your eyes from dangerous, long-wavelength,
> infrared light.
> Glad you are protecting your eyesight!
> Dave Finkelnburg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marianne Lombardo
>
> I bought some welding goggles today to use to look at the cones in the
kiln.
> They only cost $15.00 so I don't know how good they are but they look like
> the same thing in Tucker's catalog.
>
> However, even though the package says Welding Goggles, the label inside
says
> "do not use for arc welding, lasers, or other sources of intense radiant
> energy". Whatever that means.
>
> Do they sound like they will be OK for peeking into the spyholes?
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.

____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org

You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/

Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

Fredrick Paget on sat 20 apr 02

I have one and I never thought of trying it on a kiln.
I got it for arc welding and it darkens to about a number10 shade instantly
when you strike the arc.
It won't darken in bright daylight but will darken if you look at the sun.
I think it will take at least cone 10 to work it. The next time I do one I
will try it. Probably will be a way too dark if it works at all. Before it
triggers you can see through it as though it is about a number1 shade. Sort
of light green. Don't know if that will protect the eyes from the infra red.

Fred


>At 08:40 AM 4/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>Does anyone have any experience with the auto-darkening welding
>>goggles/helmet?
>
>Expensive, but fabulous! -Snail

From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA

Snail Scott on sat 20 apr 02

At 09:05 AM 4/20/02 -0400, you wrote:
How much UV light is produced by high fire
>temperatures?


According to my resident physicist: "Not a heck
of a lot". Kilns give off almost entirely IR
radiation. IR will give you a nasty sunburn,
too, though. It's also not good for your eyes,
but I'll let Edouard give a more informed and
complete opinion. I believe he has discussed
this before, so a surf through the archives
would probably be rewarding.

-Snail

Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on sun 21 apr 02

One caveat with the welding googles which are not for arc welding, I believe
they are plastic -- thus you have to be careful not to get them (and you) to
close to the kiln opening.

Bob Bruch

Snail Scott on sun 21 apr 02

At 08:01 AM 4/21/02 EDT, Bob wrote:
>One caveat with the welding googles which are not for arc welding, I
believe
>they are plastic -- thus you have to be careful not to get them (and you)
to
>close to the kiln opening.


You don't really need the whole goggles;
the lens alone is sufficient (and cheap).

-Snail

Jean Lehman on mon 22 apr 02

Terry Sullivan told us about the ongoing thread on welding goggles.
My husband Dick Lehman (not the potter) has been an off-and-on glassblower
for the past ten years. I have asked him to chat with you about this
subject.
-------------
this is from Dick...

A couple of years ago I did a review on eye hazards for HOT GLASS workers.
Let me share a couple of key results, and then refer you to the site
containing my glass papers. I think you'll find them interesting even if
the two processes are certainly different but related.

First, the obvious. Protect your eyes PHYSICALLY. If there's any chance of
flying debris, shards, dust and the like, wear safety glasses. Plain common
sense. (Along with wearing your respirator when formulating glazes,
sanding, and sweeping.)

Second, the infrared (IR) and the ultraviolet (UV). These wavelengths of
light energy are emitted heavily when glass is heated. And both have the
potential to do serious eye damage. But it's easy to deal with both. For
UV, if you already wear eyeglasses, you may already protected. Many lenses
come with UV protective coatings, and that works just fine in blocking UV
radiation. If you don't wear glasses, you should be wearing safety glasses
anyway--just get a pair with UV protection built in. Finally, the IR damage
can be virtually eliminated by using a welder's protective lens. A #3 lens
eliminates nearly all IR. For a little more protection (and a considerable
loss in visibility through the lens), use a #5 filter. These filters are
available in several configurations; sunglass clip-on-flip-ups are often
very convenient. Equally as convenient (or more so) would be to get the
glass alone as Mel has suggested. If you have to move fast and need your
hands, as in Raku, the clip-ons would be a better option unless you wear a
head piece.

Third, it's total lifetime exposure that does it. Finally, the more you
look, the worse it gets. The more time you spend looking at hot glass, the
greater your risk. On that point, remember that glass blowers spend VASTLY
more time in front of molten glass, and have comparatively more risk as
compared to a potter.

My recommendation is conservative in that it's the same thing I say to
glassblowers. In my opinion, use UV-protected safety glass along with a #3
welder's filter.



My two glass papers can be found at:

http://www.fandm.edu/Departments/Psychology/Eyeprotection/Papers.html

I don't read ClayArt, and Jean is tied up with the Strictly Functional
Pottery National for the next month. If you have questions feel free to
email me off list. r_lehman@email.FandM.edu

---------------------

Dick Lehman
r_lehman@email.FandM.edu

and

Jean Lehman

-------------------->
Jean Lehman,
jlehman73@earthlink.net

in Lancaster, PA
Check out the
Strictly Functional Pottery National
which is on line at:
http://www.art-craftpa.com/sfpn1.html