mel jacobson on tue 26 mar 02
we all know about the 21 steps to make a pot.
if you do not, well count them.
i am fully aware of them.
when talking about making teapots, it is about
getting after them. like any daily work.
\throw twenty bodies.
throw off the hump twenty covers all the same size.
throw twenty spouts, mostly the same. let the dry over night.
assemble them.
no big deal.
that is not a whopper.
i don't throw a pot and stare out the window for
twenty minutes, walk around.
make a cover to fit just that pot..wedge clay.
talk to the neighbor.
make one more pot, different cover.
stare out the window.
any japanese trained potter would kick my
butt across the room.
making pots is about getting after it.
that is not a whopper.
mel
they are made to add hot water, tea...let steep
and pour out tea into a cup.
they are not about the metaphor of life within
the universe of humankind.
they make and pour tea. look nice.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
mel jacobson on tue 26 mar 02
in fact, i imagine there are 50 or so potters on this list
that could make twenty teapots in an afternoon without
crackin a sweat.
tommy....?
how man can you make in an afternoon.?
30 i bet.
and tommy would look like he was not even movin fast.
it is not about speed, as such. it is not about fine art, it is
about making what you sell.
if you dork around hour after hour, well then don't fuss
about making money. it will not be there. it is true of
all craft. if you are making cabinets, dresses, jewelry,
if you make anything and the rate in time exceeds what you can
get for it...you just lost money.
people often confuse art, business, profit.
some even think it is dirty to make money.
well, i do not feel that way. i have a family to feed.
(not any more, really, but many do.)
kurt has a list of people waiting for his pots. a big list.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Ned Ludd on tue 26 mar 02
mel jacobson
> i don't throw a pot and stare out the window for twenty minutes, walk
> around. make a cover to fit just that pot..wedge clay. talk to the
> neighbor.
>
> make one more pot, different cover. stare out the window.
Mel, Mel.. . This is silly... it's reductio ad
absurdum! In dubious taste I might add ... NO-ONE gets to be a
professional potter by staring out the window... not in Japan, not
anywhere else. You know that. But am I going to succumb to internet
paranoia and take this personally? NO, you wascal ;-)
Here again is your claim:
>> how long did it take me to make that sucker?
>
>> 5 minutes to throw 5 minutes to finish. >>
Mel, I will bet that you cannot. I dare you!
Here's the deal -
You lose: I win one of your teapots. You tell us on Clayart.
NB. Absolutely NO Shino... I can't stand shino, NOooooo shino
teapot!!!
You win: you get one of mine. (and you tell us on Clayart)
... Mothers in law love my stuff... I can't get enough cobalt...
Rules: Mel to time the deed accurately - no funny business! - with a
_stopwatch or good clock with seconds.
Clock starts from the time you, Mel, touch the clay from the bag or
the claypile to the time you let go of the finished raw pot, stamped,
signed whatever. Time outs for drying intervals, but not if you are
working on any part of the pot including the lid, the handle, the
spout... NO window gazing for you! You touch: you time!
Oh yes.. the lid has to fit snug, but not too snug, or you are
disqualified and I win. :-)
Result will look and behave as we both know a teapot should.. it will
be professionally acceptable and I don't mean by craft-ignorant art
departments.... no wham bam thank you mam stuff just to beat the
clock!
Who knows what crafty norwegians may have up their sleeves so I gotta
think like a lawyer here... ;-)
The gauntlet is at your feet, Mayor!
Ned, having fun... now I'll go stare out the window and
imagine Mel flailing away.. LOL!!
Dannon Rhudy on tue 26 mar 02
>
,.....>Mel, I will bet that you cannot. I dare you!........
>
Uh-oh. You're gonna lose that bet.....I've seen him
making.
However, take into consideration that when Mel makes teapots,
he does a bunch at a time. Throws 20-30 bodies, then lids,
then spouts. Each part takes him less than a minute. He
does very little trimming, doesn't need to on teapots. So
any left-over time can be used in putting the pot together.
They just seem to flow together, and then he puts on the handle -
less than a minute, again.
He glazes very quickly, too, so - I expect if you divided
up time by number of pots, it's about ten minutes each. Plus
a lifetime, of course. It may be the "lifetime" part that
gets it done.
I've watched. I know.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Charles on wed 27 mar 02
I can do 30, betcha Tommy can do 300!
-C
Visit my webpage...
http://www.thecreativeoasis.com/Hughes/hughes.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 3:09 PM
Subject: teapots/fast
> in fact, i imagine there are 50 or so potters on this list
> that could make twenty teapots in an afternoon without
> crackin a sweat.
>
> tommy....?
> how man can you make in an afternoon.?
> 30 i bet.
>
> and tommy would look like he was not even movin fast.
>
> it is not about speed, as such. it is not about fine art, it is
> about making what you sell.
> if you dork around hour after hour, well then don't fuss
> about making money. it will not be there. it is true of
> all craft. if you are making cabinets, dresses, jewelry,
> if you make anything and the rate in time exceeds what you can
> get for it...you just lost money.
>
> people often confuse art, business, profit.
> some even think it is dirty to make money.
> well, i do not feel that way. i have a family to feed.
> (not any more, really, but many do.)
>
> kurt has a list of people waiting for his pots. a big list.
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Ned Ludd on wed 27 mar 02
Dannon wrote:
Ned sed>Mel, I will bet that you cannot. I dare you!........
> >
>
>Uh-oh. You're gonna lose that bet.....I've seen him
>making.
Hi Dannon,
> However, take into consideration that when Mel makes teapots, he does a
> bunch at a time. Throws 20-30 bodies, then lids, then spouts. Each
> part takes him less than a minute. He does very little trimming,
> doesn't need to on teapots.
Of course. It's the only way to go in production, as we both know. It
would be a total nonstarter otherwise. But the trimming.. well it all
depends.. you can design a teapot whose lids don't need trimming,
but would you want to make only that kind? Seems restrictive - and
there are too often quality trade offs in the examples I see.
Efficiency yes, but corner cutting, no.
As for my bet, I can't lose if Mel doesn't take it up! And if he did,
and if he won, it would be a pleasure to send him a teapot of mine!
;-)
If his ten minutes-to-a-good-teapot claim is true, what's he got to
lose? I stress good teapot. Any potter can make _something_ in a
hurry.
But is the result good enough for me and my customers? To use day in
and day out, with pleasure both visual and tactile? That is the true
test.
I'll believe a good teapot can be formed in ten minutes when I see it
happening before my eyes. Or when Mel tells me he timed himself and
achieved it, and sends me a jpeg of the pot. Heck, if I saw it done
in thirty minutes I'd be impressed.
The gauntlet is still at Mel's feet .. or yours, Dannon! Want to
take me up on it?
And did you catch Joyce talking of the _three minute_! teapot
assigned by teachers to - wait for it - first semester students?!
IMO, as an art exercise maybe it makes sense - as a craft exercise
it's a downright travesty. It's the craft skill, or it's not a teapot
- it just claims to be.
best
Ned
brewin' up...and toastin' potters everywhere
Elizabeth Woodring Rezes on wed 27 mar 02
Hi, all.
This thread is killing me! LOL! I'm in the third semester of a community college
ceramics class and I get to make teapots this semester.
I would absolutely DIE if my teacher had us do any type of timed throwing
exercise. Give me a break. Some days, I still can't even throw a cylinder!
(Although, that's getting better and better.)
It took me a few hours just to get some spouts that I like. I threw about 20 of
them off the hump before I had some that were even presentable. Now I know how to
make spouts though! And throw off the hump. For small things, I'll never go back;
throwing off the hump is so much easier.
Liz
(who is proud of her wonderful HEAVY teapot)
Ned Ludd wrote:
>
> And did you catch Joyce talking of the _three minute_! teapot
> assigned by teachers to - wait for it - first semester students?!
> IMO, as an art exercise maybe it makes sense - as a craft exercise
> it's a downright travesty. It's the craft skill, or it's not a teapot
> - it just claims to be.
>
> best
>
> Ned
> brewin' up...and toastin' potters everywhere
>
Cindi Anderson on wed 27 mar 02
You would be surprised how helpful timed throwing is at your stage. Just
make small enough balls of clay that you can center relatively easily, such
as 1 lb. Wedge up 10 balls, and throw 10 cylinders, 3 minutes each. Cut
them up and see how they look. It is fun, and one thing I remember learning
from it is that the clay didn't have to be as perfectly centered as I
thought it did.
Cindi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Woodring Rezes"
> I would absolutely DIE if my teacher had us do any type of timed throwing
> exercise. Give me a break. Some days, I still can't even throw a
cylinder!
> (Although, that's getting better and better.)
>
Bvcuma on thu 28 mar 02
>> Wedge up 10 balls, and throw 10 cylinders, 3 minutes each. Cut
them up and see how they look. <<
____________________________
Yes, after Tommy's post...
speaking of multiple boards of ten,
I was inspired.
450g. balls, ten at a time...
but only once a day : )
(My carved handles take 1/2 hour each.)
My centering/opening/pulling technique
has improved leaps and bounds.
Three pulls, compressing the lip once or twice,
and cleanup base with bamboo knife
no further trimming required.
I tried a few "glasses" (no handle)
Pulling taller and thinner,
with a final dry pull
to twist and distort the "cylinder"
These make great glasses
that fit the hand quite pleasently.
My point...no need to cut up and recycle.
Throwing practice and glaze test variations...
all in one.
Bruce
ps. The thought has crossed my mind...
can one become too slick with practice
and lose the freshness of a beginners hand?
Also I noticed my hands never do the job
in quite the same fashion...
they "work" each cyclinder
in a basic general way
but each time seems to be a unique
combination of hand/finger technique or "feel".
I guess this will become
more uniform with practice...
possibly leading to the slickness mentioned...
A machine producing exact duplicates?
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