mel jacobson on mon 18 mar 02
it is a can of worms to debate international
no one will win that one.
acers owns the name and the logo and all rights to
they will never give the name to anyone for commercial
for education, information...fun...it is always available.
acers is a non-profit corp. it has very strict rules to
stay in business. we will follow that lead.
1. lisa came to me with the clayart cookbook...i gave permission.
2. last week we did not give permission for a commercial
poster...but, gave forgiveness.
3. clayart folks can make t shirts based on clayart posts..but
it is not necessary to the shirt to add the logo. it should be left off,
t shirt for fun....don't get into the dispute. leave off the clayart
stuff if you are going to sell it.
4. clayart posts cannot be stolen and used by other folks.
that is not allowed. we assume copyright of posts to individuals.
that may not hold up in court, but it sure would piss off the gang.
and we do not want to piss off the gang. that is important.
5. if you have a question, send it to me. i will make a call.
if i cannot, then mark m. will make the call.
i do not want to bother him...he has enough to do.
the acers folks are good and kind. they want clayart to have
a life of its own. they do not want to interfere.
but, if you mess with copyrights of their magazines, or use
clayart as a profit....you will get what you deserve...and that
is the full force of acers.
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Orchard Valley Ceramic Arts Guild on tue 19 mar 02
> it is a can of worms to debate international
>no one will win that one.
>acers owns the name and the logo and all rights to
I think Janet is generally correct regarding statutary
trademark law. However, there is body of common law
that may allow some protection even without federal
Unfortunately many people don't take the simple and
inexpensive steps required to fully protect trade- and
service-marks. If you are starting a business and intend
to have distinctive names or logos for your products or
services, it's worth talking to a lawyer (or saving some
money by buying the Nolo Press book on trademarks).
However, there is another body of law regulating business
practices. If someone used the clayart name or logo in
a way that implied association with, or sponsorship by,
ACerS, there would be good grounds for a lawsuit based on
unfair business practices. That is probably the position
that ACerS is defending.
(And of course, from an ethical standpoint, I think the
clayart community respects ACerS right to the name,
with or without legal support.)
>4. clayart posts cannot be stolen and used by other folks.
>that is not allowed. we assume copyright of posts to individuals.
>that may not hold up in court, but it sure would piss off the gang.
>and we do not want to piss off the gang. that is important.
To be clear, the copyright on messages belongs to the originator.
If ACerS intends to assume copyright for communication
posted on clayart, they need to take appropriate steps to do so.
A copyright transfer agreement, executed online when you
sign up for the clayart list, would probably cover it.
The key here is that SOMEONE owns the copyright, and
whether it is ACerS or the individual posters, the messages
posted here still cannot be copied (except for the various
exceptions under copyright law).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Webmaster, Orchard Valley Ceramic Arts Guild
Mark Mecklenborg on wed 20 mar 02
The comments Bob Nicholson made yesterday regarding
trademarks and copyrights are very much on target.
I do need to clarify that The American Ceramic Society does
not own the copyright to your posts and does not want to
own the copyright to your posts. You own the copyright to
your posts. Nobody has the right to simply copy and
publish these posts elsewhere without your permission
(except for the various uses allowed under U.S. and
International copyright law).
The American Ceramic Society provides infrastructure and
support to Clayart. We have taken on this role as a
service to this community. We believe that it is in the
best interest of the Clayart community if we help protect
the forum and the Clayart name from being used for
commercial gain. We really haven't experienced any major
problems with this issue and don't expect to have any major
If you have a project that you want to do for educational
or charitable purposes and want to associate the Clayart
name with it or use the logo, simply e-mail both Mel and me
to request permission. We really don't want to make this
difficult. We just want to take a common sense approach.
By the way, the logo we refer to was simply developed for
the Clayart website -- www.ceramics.org/clayart.
Thanks and take care. It was great seeing and meeting many
of you at NCECA.
Mark J. Mecklenborg
Senior Director, Publications
The American Ceramic Society
vince pitelka on wed 20 mar 02
> 3. clayart folks can make t shirts based on clayart posts..but
> it is not necessary to the shirt to add the logo. it should be left off,
> make the t shirt for fun....don't get into the dispute. leave off the
> stuff if you are going to sell it.
Sorry, but this doesn't wash at all. I can appreciate ACerS attempts to
protect the Clayart name, but if we as Clayart (which supercedes ACerS
control of the Clayart name) decide to make a Clayart T-shirt and have the
Clayart name on it, and if one member takes responsibility for printing up
the T-shirt and then sells the shirts to other Clayart members, we can do
that any damn time we want to with the Clayart name plastered all over the
T-shirt. If we decide to collaborate on a Clayart project which is tasteful
and is done for our mutual good, we will use the Clayart name as we see fit.
I love ACerS and I am devoted to ACerS, but this is a non-issue. We will
all do whatever is necessary to prevent abuse or misuse of the Clayart name,
but otherwise we will use the Clayart name how WE see fit.
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - firstname.lastname@example.org
Work - email@example.com
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803