Eleanor on thu 14 mar 02
> Lurkers unite!!! Start !! Post all those
>questions you wrote off as being silly or novice....
OK, Anji, chew on this with your coffee:
What is a TEABOWL?
What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
I've never had a teabowl in my hands, only seen them in photos and on
display in museums. Most recently, I saw about half a dozen in the
Philadelphia Museum of Art (very nice place, but beware the wiles of
the parking lot panhandlers--their techniques were so well
orchestrated you would think they were graduates of the Actors
Studio)--but I digress...
The names of all but one of the teabowl potters were unfamiliar. The
one I recognised was a Japanese man whose name I have now forgotten.
All the teabowls I have seen, including those made by Clayart gurus,
look to me like the work of rank beginners, both in the throwing and
in the glazing: crude, uneven shapes--not pleasing to my eyes at
least; glaze faults--crawling, pinholes large and small, crazing. All
the things in all the books we are told to avoid or correct.
Is the TEABOWL thing some kind of mystique? Am I missing something?
Eleanor TGD (The Great Dabbler) Kohler
Centerport, NY
To Kelly: my kids would appreciate your "primalmommy". To them (they
are all adults and my best friends), I'm TGM--The Great Mommy.
Bob Pulley on thu 14 mar 02
Yes, I think the teabowl is a kind of mystique. The goals are something =
gestural, natural and strong of form made without self consciousness or =
guile, but dancing and energetic.=20
The tea aficionado knows, being a westerner and not one in the know I am =
not sure I would know a great one from an ok one. I imagine it is a skill =
that can be learned, but all I have seen is pictures. I tried to make a =
tea bowl for a Japanese woman who tried to teach me Japanese. I was =
disappointed in my results, but she accepted it graciously.
Bob
>>> ekohler@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US 03/14/02 12:05PM >>>
> Lurkers unite!!! Start !! Post all those
>questions you wrote off as being silly or novice....
OK, Anji, chew on this with your coffee:
What is a TEABOWL?
What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
I've never had a teabowl in my hands, only seen them in photos and on
display in museums. Most recently, I saw about half a dozen in the
Philadelphia Museum of Art (very nice place, but beware the wiles of
the parking lot panhandlers--their techniques were so well
orchestrated you would think they were graduates of the Actors
Studio)--but I digress...
The names of all but one of the teabowl potters were unfamiliar. The
one I recognised was a Japanese man whose name I have now forgotten.
All the teabowls I have seen, including those made by Clayart gurus,
look to me like the work of rank beginners, both in the throwing and
in the glazing: crude, uneven shapes--not pleasing to my eyes at
least; glaze faults--crawling, pinholes large and small, crazing. All
the things in all the books we are told to avoid or correct.
Is the TEABOWL thing some kind of mystique? Am I missing something?
Eleanor TGD (The Great Dabbler) Kohler
Centerport, NY
To Kelly: my kids would appreciate your "primalmommy". To them (they
are all adults and my best friends), I'm TGM--The Great Mommy.
___________________________________________________________________________=
___
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org=20
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/=20
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.=
com.
Ann Semple on thu 14 mar 02
Oh thank you Eleanor! I had thought I was the only one whose reaction to the Teabowls was less than awe. Many tea bowls I've seen (only on the web I admit) look like they would be unpleasant to drink from, and some look like they might be dangerous.
Okay, now I'm really going to put my foot in it. I have been looking at a lot of well known potter's work (web viewing) and wondering what it feels like to pick up these pieces. You know, fondle them. With the craters, pin holes, crazing, beading etc, I can't imagine it would be a pleasurable experience. Is pottery becoming a look but don't touch form, or have these people manages to create the look of these glaze flaws but not the sharp edges?
IS there anyone reading the list right now that can fill me in here?
Thanks
Ann
annsemple@shaw.ca
Longtin, Jeff on thu 14 mar 02
Going off memory here gang but if I'm not mistaken a Teabowl is used in the
tea ceremony. POWDERED tea is placed in the teabowl. Hot water is then
poured over the powder. Then a tea whisk is used to quickly mix the tea and
water. After mixing the tea is swallowed very quickly.
The bowl shape makes it easier to whisk.
Years ago they did a study of folks in the Himalayan mountains. These folks
like to drink scaulding hot tea with butter also very quickly. Scientists
found that although the hot tea caulloosed their throats there was no
incidence of throat cancer in the population. Food for thought!
Jeff Longtin
Complex Molds Made Easy
Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: Eleanor [mailto:ekohler@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:06 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Gurus gone? Is it safe?
> Lurkers unite!!! Start !! Post all those
>questions you wrote off as being silly or novice....
OK, Anji, chew on this with your coffee:
What is a TEABOWL?
What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
I've never had a teabowl in my hands, only seen them in photos and on
display in museums. Most recently, I saw about half a dozen in the
Philadelphia Museum of Art (very nice place, but beware the wiles of
the parking lot panhandlers--their techniques were so well
orchestrated you would think they were graduates of the Actors
Studio)--but I digress...
The names of all but one of the teabowl potters were unfamiliar. The
one I recognised was a Japanese man whose name I have now forgotten.
All the teabowls I have seen, including those made by Clayart gurus,
look to me like the work of rank beginners, both in the throwing and
in the glazing: crude, uneven shapes--not pleasing to my eyes at
least; glaze faults--crawling, pinholes large and small, crazing. All
the things in all the books we are told to avoid or correct.
Is the TEABOWL thing some kind of mystique? Am I missing something?
Eleanor TGD (The Great Dabbler) Kohler
Centerport, NY
To Kelly: my kids would appreciate your "primalmommy". To them (they
are all adults and my best friends), I'm TGM--The Great Mommy.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Hank Murrow on thu 14 mar 02
>> Lurkers unite!!! Start !! Post all those
>>questions you wrote off as being silly or novice....
>
>OK, Anji, chew on this with your coffee:
>
>What is a TEABOWL?
>What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
>
>I've never had a teabowl in my hands, only seen them in photos and on
>display in museums. Most recently, I saw about half a dozen in the
>Philadelphia Museum of Art (very nice place, but beware the wiles of
>the parking lot panhandlers--their techniques were so well
>orchestrated you would think they were graduates of the Actors
>Studio)--but I digress...
>
>The names of all but one of the teabowl potters were unfamiliar. The
>one I recognised was a Japanese man whose name I have now forgotten.
>
>All the teabowls I have seen, including those made by Clayart gurus,
>look to me like the work of rank beginners, both in the throwing and
>in the glazing: crude, uneven shapes--not pleasing to my eyes at
>least; glaze faults--crawling, pinholes large and small, crazing. All
>the things in all the books we are told to avoid or correct.
>
>Is the TEABOWL thing some kind of mystique? Am I missing something?
>
>Eleanor TGD (The Great Dabbler) Kohler
Dear Eleanor;
A teabowl is best understood by having a skilled
tea-practitioner serve you Tea in one. I find that teabowls are a
dance between sterility and too busy. That is, the bowl needs to have
lots of 'character' without being flamboyant or just a mess. Folks
often object to the large size of many bowls, but understand when the
tea is whisked with the chasen. You need some room in there for that
to happen nicely. When you have once experienced the sight of green
frothy tea at the bottom of a crawly shino bowl........well, you will
see things differently perhaps.
Cheers and encouragement, Hank in Eugene http://www.murrow.biz/hank
Longtin, Jeff on thu 14 mar 02
A thought Ann,
I think its good to think about geography when considering Oriental works.
Japan, for instance, is a mountainous region, if I'm not mistaken. China, as
well, has many mountainous regions. I think the ancients often turned to
nature for influences and as they were were surrounded by mountains (rough
textures, rough edges,etc.) I think these elements crept into their
work. I think rough textured teabowls were created to bring that natural
element inside into the tea ceremony. Also since these were not vessels
intended to be held for any length of time I don't think comfort was an
issue.
This, by the way, is why I strongly disagree with Mel. I think its wrong to
try to duplicate elements from ancient times and somehow try to make them
our own. The ancients made pots the way they did for reasons we can only
guess about. For us to assume their aesthetic choices were indeed choices is
to make alot of assumptions.
Though I agree with him that the goal, and standard, should be to make great
pots regardless of material origin.
Jeff Longtin
-----Original Message-----
From: Ann Semple [mailto:annsemple@SHAW.CA]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:03 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Gurus gone? Is it safe?
Oh thank you Eleanor! I had thought I was the only one whose reaction to the
Teabowls was less than awe. Many tea bowls I've seen (only on the web I
admit) look like they would be unpleasant to drink from, and some look like
they might be dangerous.
Okay, now I'm really going to put my foot in it. I have been looking at a
lot of well known potter's work (web viewing) and wondering what it feels
like to pick up these pieces. You know, fondle them. With the craters, pin
holes, crazing, beading etc, I can't imagine it would be a pleasurable
experience. Is pottery becoming a look but don't touch form, or have these
people manages to create the look of these glaze flaws but not the sharp
edges?
IS there anyone reading the list right now that can fill me in here?
Thanks
Ann
annsemple@shaw.ca
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Tony Ferguson on thu 14 mar 02
A tea bowl is a bowl that is created specifically for holding tea generally
associated with tea ceremony. When I think of tea bowl of think of winter
chawan (winter teabowl) which has it very edges closing in the interior
space, keeping the tea warmer and summer chawan (summer teabowl) which is
more shaped like a rice bowl, open to the heavens. As Americans, we are
really loosely defining "teabowl" which tends to happen when something new
is introduced (like Raku). Shino and Raku are mostly associated with tea
bowls as are stoneware and porcelain. Another kind of teabowl or guinomi
(teacup) is referred to as an
"everyday" use vessel which name escapes me. It would be like your coffee
cup and is not intended for ceremony. Hope this helps and anyone feel free
to add or correct. I only think I know what I know until someone else
teaches me. Also, what some may see as a glaze fault according to whatever
books or canon to others is unique, rare, most beautiful and sometime if you
are really lucky, "a happy accident." I like crawly, gnarly, pinholy shino!
Thank you!
Tony Ferguson
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
www.aquariusartgallery.com
Web Site, Marketing & Photographic Services for Artists
Workshops available
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank Murrow"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: Gurus gone? Is it safe?
> >> Lurkers unite!!! Start !! Post all those
> >>questions you wrote off as being silly or novice....
> >
> >OK, Anji, chew on this with your coffee:
> >
> >What is a TEABOWL?
> >What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
> >
> >I've never had a teabowl in my hands, only seen them in photos and on
> >display in museums. Most recently, I saw about half a dozen in the
> >Philadelphia Museum of Art (very nice place, but beware the wiles of
> >the parking lot panhandlers--their techniques were so well
> >orchestrated you would think they were graduates of the Actors
> >Studio)--but I digress...
> >
> >The names of all but one of the teabowl potters were unfamiliar. The
> >one I recognised was a Japanese man whose name I have now forgotten.
> >
> >All the teabowls I have seen, including those made by Clayart gurus,
> >look to me like the work of rank beginners, both in the throwing and
> >in the glazing: crude, uneven shapes--not pleasing to my eyes at
> >least; glaze faults--crawling, pinholes large and small, crazing. All
> >the things in all the books we are told to avoid or correct.
> >
> >Is the TEABOWL thing some kind of mystique? Am I missing something?
> >
> >Eleanor TGD (The Great Dabbler) Kohler
>
>
> Dear Eleanor;
>
> A teabowl is best understood by having a skilled
> tea-practitioner serve you Tea in one. I find that teabowls are a
> dance between sterility and too busy. That is, the bowl needs to have
> lots of 'character' without being flamboyant or just a mess. Folks
> often object to the large size of many bowls, but understand when the
> tea is whisked with the chasen. You need some room in there for that
> to happen nicely. When you have once experienced the sight of green
> frothy tea at the bottom of a crawly shino bowl........well, you will
> see things differently perhaps.
>
> Cheers and encouragement, Hank in Eugene http://www.murrow.biz/hank
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Rick Berman on thu 14 mar 02
Hi Eleanor,
WOW! Your question is the ultimate question. What is art? There is an
unbelievable description of the famous Kizaemon Ido teabowl made in Korea
in the Yi dynasty that I will find and send to you as soon I can. The
essence of the essay goes something like this...... The bowl was made in
a dimly lit hut with a dirt floor, on a crude potters wheel that wasn't
level, with a terrible clay full of rocks and sand that was dug from the
backyard, and fired in an inefficient and unevenly fired kiln, by a
farmer/potter who couldn't read or write, and didn't even have the word
"art" in his vocabulary. But.......this common rice bowl has been picked
by the greatest aestheticians of Japan to be the most important piece of
art in the land. Why? The short answer is: it was made along with the
thousands of other pots that were made by this anonymous potter without
any thought of "self." In other words he wasn't making any effort to
express himself, but by working year in and year out he literally became
"nature" itself. Michael Cardew once said "for a potter to truly make
his own work he must become like a leaf on a tree."
Eleanor I hope this helps at least in a small way to answer your great
question.
In kindness,
Rick Berman
Ababi on thu 14 mar 02
Dear Eleanor.
First I meant to ignore your letter, but getting some nice answer led
me to join trying not to write again what that has been written in this
letter.
It is fine and "all right" that you never heard of tea balls. I did not
know too.
Now I know.
You wrote: Like students work:
>>>e like the work of rank beginners, both in the throwing and
>> >in the glazing: crude, uneven shapes--not pleasing to my eyes at
>> >least; glaze faults--crawling, pinholes large and small, crazing.
All
>> >the things in all the books we are told to avoid or correct.
Yes sometimes the students, before being spoiled by their
teachers&friends achieve nice wares.
It is different to make pinholes and craters when you chose to rather
than because you cannot do glazes correctly.
When I read or learn there is point where I decide myself what do I
like in the books and what from my mind!
Where I live, A kibbutz, very smart people, well educated, good people.
Yet might not understand like you, what are these ugly glazes.I beleive
will be hard to sell such wares here.
What I try to tell you is not knowing, understanding something does not
necessarily means it is false!
Please see in my glaze test pages and the stoneware page these "ugly"
glazes I make or develop
Ababi Sharon
Kibbutz Shoval- Israel
Glaze addict
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
---------- Original Message ----------
>A tea bowl is a bowl that is created specifically for holding tea
>generally
>associated with tea ceremony. When I think of tea bowl of think of
>winter
>chawan (winter teabowl) which has it very edges closing in the interior
>space, keeping the tea warmer and summer chawan (summer teabowl) which
>is
>more shaped like a rice bowl, open to the heavens. As Americans, we are
>really loosely defining "teabowl" which tends to happen when something
>new
>is introduced (like Raku). Shino and Raku are mostly associated with
>tea
>bowls as are stoneware and porcelain. Another kind of teabowl or
>guinomi
>(teacup) is referred to as an
>"everyday" use vessel which name escapes me. It would be like your
>coffee
>cup and is not intended for ceremony. Hope this helps and anyone feel
>free
>to add or correct. I only think I know what I know until someone else
>teaches me. Also, what some may see as a glaze fault according to
>whatever
>books or canon to others is unique, rare, most beautiful and sometime
>if you
>are really lucky, "a happy accident." I like crawly, gnarly, pinholy
>shino!
>Thank you!
>Tony Ferguson
>Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku
>www.aquariusartgallery.com
>Web Site, Marketing & Photographic Services for Artists
>Workshops available
>218-727-6339
>315 N. Lake Ave
>Apt 312
>Duluth, MN 55806
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Hank Murrow"
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:37 AM
>Subject: Re: Gurus gone? Is it safe?
>> >> Lurkers unite!!! Start !! Post all those
>> >>questions you wrote off as being silly or novice....
>> >
>> >OK, Anji, chew on this with your coffee:
>> >
>> >What is a TEABOWL?
>> >What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
>> >
>> >I've never had a teabowl in my hands, only seen them in photos and on
>> >display in museums. Most recently, I saw about half a dozen in the
>> >Philadelphia Museum of Art (very nice place, but beware the wiles of
>> >the parking lot panhandlers--their techniques were so well
>> >orchestrated you would think they were graduates of the Actors
>> >Studio)--but I digress...
>> >
>> >The names of all but one of the teabowl potters were unfamiliar. The
>> >one I recognised was a Japanese man whose name I have now forgotten.
>> >
>> >All the teabowls I have seen, including those made by Clayart gurus,
>> >look to me like the work of rank beginners, both in the throwing and
>> >in the glazing: crude, uneven shapes--not pleasing to my eyes at
>> >least; glaze faults--crawling, pinholes large and small, crazing. All
>> >the things in all the books we are told to avoid or correct.
>> >
>> >Is the TEABOWL thing some kind of mystique? Am I missing something?
>> >
>> >Eleanor TGD (The Great Dabbler) Kohler
>>
>>
>> Dear Eleanor;
>>
>> A teabowl is best understood by having a skilled
>> tea-practitioner serve you Tea in one. I find that teabowls are a
>> dance between sterility and too busy. That is, the bowl needs to have
>> lots of 'character' without being flamboyant or just a mess. Folks
>> often object to the large size of many bowls, but understand when the
>> tea is whisked with the chasen. You need some room in there for that
>> to happen nicely. When you have once experienced the sight of green
>> frothy tea at the bottom of a crawly shino bowl........well, you will
>> see things differently perhaps.
>>
>> Cheers and encouragement, Hank in Eugene http://www.murrow.biz/hank
>>
>>
>________________________________________________________________________
>____
>__
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>________________________________________________________________________
>______
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
claybair on thu 14 mar 02
Haha....... Eleanor it's always safe here if you wear your protective gear!
I have been reading Hamada by Bernard Leach and see parallels (excuse me my
art background is showing) in other arts.
Look at Picasso and typical reactions to his later works.....e.g. "My
grandchildren could draw better!"
His mastery of his tools allowed him to abandon them.
Hamada was more knowledgeable than anyone Leach had known. Hamada had quite
a technical background.
If we live long enough our history may go something like this:
Innocent, fresh approach with no understanding
followed by an
Intensive technical and aesthetic study
followed by a
Deep and pervasive understanding
ending with an
Innocent fresh approach with an apparent abandonment of the rules.
My husband rarely cooks and when he does he follows the recipe ever so
closely.... to the point of driving me nuts.
On the other hand I have cooked for 40 years...... starting eyelevel with
the table, watching my mother and grandmother in the kitchen.
I understand recipes and rarely follow one exactly. I do not measure when I
make bread and many other dishes.... I do not need to do that to get it
right.
Thanks for the posting..... I will be more forgiving when my husband has to
follow the recipe.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Eleanor
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:06 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Gurus gone? Is it safe?
> Lurkers unite!!! Start !! Post all those
>questions you wrote off as being silly or novice....
OK, Anji, chew on this with your coffee:
What is a TEABOWL?
What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
I've never had a teabowl in my hands, only seen them in photos and on
display in museums. Most recently, I saw about half a dozen in the
Philadelphia Museum of Art (very nice place, but beware the wiles of
the parking lot panhandlers--their techniques were so well
orchestrated you would think they were graduates of the Actors
Studio)--but I digress...
The names of all but one of the teabowl potters were unfamiliar. The
one I recognised was a Japanese man whose name I have now forgotten.
All the teabowls I have seen, including those made by Clayart gurus,
look to me like the work of rank beginners, both in the throwing and
in the glazing: crude, uneven shapes--not pleasing to my eyes at
least; glaze faults--crawling, pinholes large and small, crazing. All
the things in all the books we are told to avoid or correct.
Is the TEABOWL thing some kind of mystique? Am I missing something?
Eleanor TGD (The Great Dabbler) Kohler
Centerport, NY
To Kelly: my kids would appreciate your "primalmommy". To them (they
are all adults and my best friends), I'm TGM--The Great Mommy.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Hank Murrow on thu 14 mar 02
>Oh thank you Eleanor! I had thought I was the only one whose
>reaction to the Teabowls was less than awe. Many tea bowls I've
>seen (only on the web I admit) look like they would be unpleasant to
>drink from, and some look like they might be dangerous.
>
>Okay, now I'm really going to put my foot in it. I have been looking
>at a lot of well known potter's work (web viewing) and wondering
>what it feels like to pick up these pieces. You know, fondle them.
>With the craters, pin holes, crazing, beading etc, I can't imagine
>it would be a pleasurable experience. Is pottery becoming a look but
>don't touch form, or have these people manages to create the look of
>these glaze flaws but not the sharp edges?
>IS there anyone reading the list right now that can fill me in here?
>Thanks
>Ann
>annsemple@shaw.ca
>
Dear Ann;
I would be happy to have you peruse my website and ask me
about the handfeel of any of my pots. Go to
http://www.murrow.biz/hank and find one that seems suspect to you,
and I will report back on how it feels. nothing to lose.
Cheers, Hank
Hank Murrow on thu 14 mar 02
>Hi Eleanor,
>WOW! Your question is the ultimate question. What is art? There is an
>unbelievable description of the famous Kizaemon Ido teabowl made in Korea
>in the Yi dynasty that I will find and send to you as soon I can. The
>essence of the essay goes something like this...... The bowl was made in
>a dimly lit hut with a dirt floor, on a crude potters wheel that wasn't
>level, with a terrible clay full of rocks and sand that was dug from the
>backyard, and fired in an inefficient and unevenly fired kiln, by a
>farmer/potter who couldn't read or write, and didn't even have the word
>"art" in his vocabulary. But.......this common rice bowl has been picked
>by the greatest aestheticians of Japan to be the most important piece of
>art in the land. Why? The short answer is: it was made along with the
>thousands of other pots that were made by this anonymous potter without
>any thought of "self." In other words he wasn't making any effort to
>express himself, but by working year in and year out he literally became
>"nature" itself. Michael Cardew once said "for a potter to truly make
>his own work he must become like a leaf on a tree."
>Eleanor I hope this helps at least in a small way to answer your great
>question.
>In kindness,
>Rick Berman
Dear Rick;
I wonder if the description you refer to is by Louise Cort of
the Freer Gallery? In any case, pass it along to the rest of us. BTW,
I saw the Kizaemon bowl while it was on display at the Freer. It has
IT, whatever that is. While we're at it, check out 082 and 045 on
this page of my site for a glimpse of alternative bowls:
http://www.murrow.biz/hank/shino_pots.htm
Cheers, Hank
Elca Branman on thu 14 mar 02
I'm gonna tell Mel on ALL of you..
Elca the Snitch.
PS Its taken me 30 years and I am beginning to not see teabowls as
lumps..however, there's rarely one I ever lust after.
Elca Branman.. in Sarasota,Florida,USA
elcab1@juno.com
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
L. P. Skeen on thu 14 mar 02
What is a TEABOWL?
What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
The shape, the size, the height of the foot, and the purpose for which it
was made.
Teabowls are made specifically for drinking tea and are often very square
looking when viewed from the side, and properly made ones have a certain
height foot ring, certain height walls, and even if I remember correctly a
certain thickness. (Learned this at the tea ceremony group in DC last year)
You want to be able to lift the teabowl from the outside by placing thumb on
rim and fingers under bowl part. There are winter teabowls and summer
bowls.
Bowls, on the other hand have no specific purpose and can be any size,
shape, etc.
L
Hank Murrow on thu 14 mar 02
>PS Its taken me 30 years and I am beginning to not see teabowls as
>lumps..however, there's rarely one I ever lust after.
>
>Elca Branman.. in Sarasota,Florida,USA
>elcab1@juno.com
Dear Elca;
There was a beauty of a tea bowl by Mark Rhodes in the
American Shino Show @ the Babcock last fall. I would have bought it
had the gallery owner not already done so.
Best, Hank
Anji Henderson on thu 14 mar 02
So, Eleanor I’ll have to say that was an excellent
question… I believe that it is something that has to
be experienced in hand before you can look at a tea
bowl in awe..
When I first saw a tea bowl in a picture I didn’t get
it … Then I was at my professors house for an open
house at the end of the semester, and for some reason
a tea bowl in person has a much different feeling.
Fortunately I live here in DC, where I can go visit
the Smithsonian Freer and Stackler museum.. By
appointment you can go in to the vault, and fondle
old clay pieces.. THEN is when I could feel the beauty
and start to understand.. I cant say I completely
understand it but I have a different feeling about
them kind of a connection sort of feeling .. Its
really hard to explain.. :/
I know that they were carved out of rocky rough clay
with all sorts of interesting plant matter in them, so
maybe it was a great accomplishment to get what you
see and we don’t understand now in this day of the
wheel and all.. And they also threw them on crude
wheels, unleveled and all, that could make it mighty
difficult to make it what we call perfect.. I know
that holding it is a major key and looking at it in
person does a lot for ones soul.. And I know that the
best people to ask about this are Mel and Lee…
Although Kelly sure did blow my explanation out of the
water..:)
I also think it is really strange that every year at
this time since I got on this list, there is a tea
bowl discussion.. I started a trade a year before last
and several people traded with me, so I have a very
nice clay art tea bowl collection .. Thanks guys!! :)
The difference between a tea bowl and a bowl.. :/ Ummm
a tea bowl is too small to really eat out of like a
rice bowl??
I also recommend Hamada’s book!!
So, I am sorry I didn’t get to this sooner but I spent
all day goofing with my car .. Trying to get it to the
mechanic and back, and I really hate the metro!! But I
also hate paying a car payment in the morning and then
paying almost twice the car payment on regular
maintnence in the evening !! I just cant win!!
Anji
--- Eleanor wrote:
> > Lurkers unite!!! Start !! Post all those
> >questions you wrote off as being silly or
> novice....
>
> OK, Anji, chew on this with your coffee:
>
> What is a TEABOWL?
> What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
=====
Good art does not have to match your sofa!!
-Fred Babb
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/
vince pitelka on fri 15 mar 02
>Okay, now I'm really going to put my foot in it. I have been looking
>at a lot of well known potter's work (web viewing) and wondering
>what it feels like to pick up these pieces. You know, fondle them.
>With the craters, pin holes, crazing, beading etc, I can't imagine
>it would be a pleasurable experience. Is pottery becoming a look but
>don't touch form, or have these people manages to create the look of
>these glaze flaws but not the sharp edges?
Ann -
I am not aware of any craters on the surface of the work of well-known
potters unless you are referring to the experimental glazes of George Ohr,
or the work of some ceramic sculptors. The other things you refer to are
not the least bit problematic, and in fact constitute interesting texture.
There is little hope of fully appreciating those surfaces without handling
them, but I hope it does not come across as at all patronizing to say that
when you have fondled enough ceramic surfaces, you will develop an intuitive
reaction to the visual representation of texture which you see in
photographs, and that reaction will really invite you to handle the work.
Craters, breaks, and other sharp edges can be hostile and alienating, but
beading? Crazing? Pin holes? How could any of those possibly be
unpleasant to touch? Exploring the surface of an interesting and varied
ceramic form is a supreme pleasure.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Lee Love on fri 15 mar 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eleanor"
> OK, Anji, chew on this with your coffee:
>
> What is a TEABOWL?
A bowl to drink tea in.
> What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a BOWL?
The first one is made with the thought of drinking tea from. This
means, you give special attention to the lip and the surface of the pot because
unlike a handled mug, you intimately hold the bowl in your hands, once the tea
is cool enough to allow this. When it is hot, you hold the tea bowl by the
foot and lip, so the foot is important too. If it is for powdered tea, the
inside must be smooth, so it doesn't damage the tea whisk.
> I've never had a teabowl in my hands, only seen them in photos and on
> display in museums.
This is very important. Two dimensional representations of pots have had
a tremendous influnce on the pots we make in modern times. Many pots are made
simply to "photograph well." I personally believe that the first judgment
of a functional pot can be done with your eyes closed. It it doesn't pass
that inspection, it doesn't matter what it looks like.
> All the teabowls I have seen, including those made by Clayart gurus,
> look to me like the work of rank beginners, both in the throwing and
> in the glazing: crude, uneven shapes--not pleasing to my eyes at
> least; glaze faults--crawling, pinholes large and small, crazing. All
> the things in all the books we are told to avoid or correct.
I'm unaware of any teabowl Gurus/experts on this list. Maybe they are
lurking here. ;^) I would not judge teabowls by our small sample of them.
I've handled many, but only know a little bit about them.
> Is the TEABOWL thing some kind of mystique? Am I missing something?
No mystique. I once ask my zen teacher's wife (She taught tea
ceremony), "What makes a good tea bowl?" She looked at me seriously and
said, "Make tea in the tea bowl, and you will know if it is a good tea bowl or
not."
Simply put, if you REALLY want to understand about tea ceremony, take
some classes about it.
Yesterday, my wife Jean went to the Kakuzo Okakura museum and house, as
an end of hanga (woodblock printing) club trip. Okakura wrote the book, The
Way Of Tea. Jean said it was a very beautiful place. She thought I would
like it because the sea shore reminded her of Lake Superior. I was supposed to
go, but because the Noborigama firing ended early (the wood was really dry), I
ended up having to work yesterday.
The last time I had powdered green tea served to me was by my wife
Jean's hanga Sensei, when we visited his new gallery in Tochigi City. We
drank from some beautiful bowls that he had made in his Noborigama. The
ceremony was very simple, like the tea I've been served at Soto Zen monasteries.
Here are some introductory articles on tea ceremony:
You can read an article about Okakura here:
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20010812rubin0812fnp1.asp
A little bit about chanoyu here:
http://www.kato3.org/chanoyu/
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan Ikiru@kami.com
"We can only wait here, where we are in the world, obedient to its processes,
patient in its taking away, faithful to its returns. And as much as we may
know, and all that we deserve of earthly paradise will come to us."
Wendell Berry , Full Quote: http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~ikiru/berry.html
Janet Kaiser on fri 15 mar 02
Mel said all the big mouths have gone to NCECA... WRONG!!!
Here I am!!! Gradually getting back to normal after a pretty bad
experience. A bone graft infection is pretty distressing and was a
really scary experience. I know it was bad, because Himself is still
being nice to me all day and every day... Equally scary!! joking> Just getting back "together" when the heating system in the
Chapel burned out. It has taken them over two weeks to come and repair
it. Ever tried hanging around in an unheated stone building at this
time of year? Pretty brass monkeys, even in our "mild" climate. More
than an hour and all extremities were lifeless lumps of meat... I
stood up suddenly and fell flat on my face... Totally numb legs!
But I have been enjoying all the outrage re: Mel's "dabbler" post
through my troubles. So many took it so dreadfully PERSONALLY, like he
just turned up on their doorstep and started shouting abuse! It was
actually an honest-to-god post from HIS perspective, giving the
parameters of what HE defines as a potter, grown from HIS OWN
experience. I cannot see how anyone, anywhere could feel shocked,
insulted or attacked.
It was also a definition a great many "real potters" would concur
with! Old time production potters and plant-pot makers. Generations of
working potters who lived and worked where they did, because the clay
was in their back yard. Even the great Josiah Wedgwood was a "real
potter" to start with... Using the materials to hand. All the famous
manufacturer's located to places where the raw materials were
situated... "The Potteries" that large area in and around Burslem and
Stoke-on-Trent in the UK. It has been a heritage of the industrial
revolution, that we are now able to pick up the phone and order
clay... It does not diminish our work in any way.
However, the simple fact remains, that the real or primitive folk
potter -- the Archetypal Potter if you will -- had to do everything
from scratch. It is that "from-the-cradle-to-the-grave" follow-through
from prospecting clay to successfully finished pot, which is the
absolute epitome of craftsmanship: the noble essence of the Master
Potter's total mastery of every little nuance involved in this most
complicated of processes. Anything less, could conceivably be called
"dabbling" and of course, our culture is only really interested in
WHAT we produce. How we achieve the end product is of secondary, if
any importance.
But, I digress... What has brought me out of my self-imposed exile,
was this question from Eleanor:
> What is a TEABOWL? What is the difference between a TEABOWL and a
BOWL?
>snip<
Well, I presume from the rest of your post you are referring to Asian
teabowls or more precisely, Japanese Chawan? If you had meant our
Western teabowls, the ones which pre-date the tea cup, then there is
not much difference, if any at all. A Western teabowl is very similar
to a sugar bowl, both in size and shape. Although a teabowl --
especially early ones -- were often very shallow and little more that
very deep saucer shapes.
The Chawan... Well, it is one of those things I believe you have to
actually hold to appreciate fully. No good looking at them in photos
or on exhibition shelves. They need to be held, handled and used in
the way they are designed to be used... Drinking tea in the Japanese
style. Then you really appreciate the subtleties of each bowl. My
favourites have never been thrown and turned... They may have been
thrown initially, but then they are carved from a thick base. The
carving should produce walls of an even thickness throughout the form.
Although that may not exclude a slightly thicker band around the rim.
Either with or without a foot. The foot height will depend on the bowl
shape... When the main character of the exterior form has been
completed to the satisfaction of the maker, the shape of the lip is
finally cut. I suppose the rises and falls could give the added
impression of "poorly made" to the untrained eye... But these
unevenesses should form a number "valleys" and "peaks", or gaku in
Japanese. I believe five gaku - gogaku are most common. Slight
roughness - zangurishita - is disirable and paddled / combed surfaces
common. Again, adding to a rough-and-ready look to those more used to
thrown or manufactured work.
This is naturally much simplified... And it does not include the
esthetics of the glaze, which is notoriously a very personal choice
and subjective taste.
On the whole, I think most westerners have no idea of even starting
to understand the "esthetics" of everyday Japanese utensils. Even if
we study, learn and even make Chawans in the traditional style, we do
not (or very rarely) use the bowls in the manner which they are
intended to be used. We do not appreciate the subleties or the
infinate variations within the confines of the "rules". And of course
it takes a Master to produce bowls which break all the rules, but
still "work" even to the point of being Master Pieces. I have
capitalised those two works, because it is an overused expression.
However, those real gems which are prized (and priced) beyond our
means, really are the exception and not the rule.
What appears as an ugly, little vessel to one person, is the Master
Potter's favourite, but it will only become "priceless" if the
Master/Mistress of the Tea Ceremony agrees!
I do miss Aiko... Now she would be able to tell you a lot more and
give you some interesting books to read. How I wish I had been in DC
when she arranged those visits to the Smithsonian collection. But you
asked the right person the question, Eleanor... Anji was one of the
lucky ones!! And she has a couple of shelves of teabowls to talk to
you about... Don't you, Anji?
Janet Kaiser - Off to a reunion tomorrow. Can it really be 25 years
since we graduated? Will there be any other artists there?
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
Home of The International Potters' Path
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : GB-Wales
URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
postbox@the-coa.org.uk
Janet Kaiser on fri 15 mar 02
Don't forget "boiling" in the Himalayas is considerably cooler than
boiling for the rest of us lowlanders, Jeff. And they add Yak milk,
which has a very high fat content which cools the tea fast. And how
could the scientists say for sure, it was the tea-drinking which
callused throats..? Breathing that ultra cold, dry, high-altitude air
would surely do that? Sort of freeze-drying?
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
Home of The International Potters' Path
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : GB-Wales
URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
postbox@the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> Years ago they did a study of folks in the Himalayan mountains.
These folks
> like to drink scaulding hot tea with butter also very quickly.
Scientists
> found that although the hot tea caulloosed their throats there was
no
> incidence of throat cancer in the population. Food for thought!
| |
|
