Snail Scott on tue 22 jan 02
At 10:06 AM 1/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I can roll a mean coil. But I can't make it clear to beginners why theirs
go flat, get hollow and look ugly.
It can be tricky for beginners. I try to tell them
things like, 'skim' across the coil; 'rock' your
hands forward and back; feel for the thick spots
and even them out; if it's too long, break it into
shorter pieces. I can't really say it's helped
anybody figure it out, though. I think practice is
probably the only cure.
On the other hand...
I also use coil almost exclusively for my own work,
but I haven't rolled a coil in years. I tried
extruding them, but the mechanics of the extruder
took more time than it was worth. Now, I just
'squeeze' my coils. I grab a big handful of clay
and squeeze it into a rough sausage. I double it
over and repeat, maybe twice. That's all the
'wedging' I do, but it seems to align the clay
pretty well. I squeeze it the last time down to
about approximately 3/4"-1" diameter and stick
it onto the sculpture, roughly luting the side
toward me with my thumb. I go back and do the other
side when I've got two or three rows on, and even
out any thick spots then. They're ugly coils, for
sure, but I can build fast this way, and the
work doesn't seem to suffer for it at all. By the
time I've finished carving the surface, I probably
introduce a lot more irregularity than was created
by my coil-making method! If I were doing pottery,
where the user can feel the evenness of the whole
thing, it might be worth the time to roll the
little suckers, but maybe not, either. I think
I'll just keep on squishin' 'em!
-Snail
Bob Pulley on tue 22 jan 02
OK here is one for you educators out there. We are beginning coil pots. I =
have been rolling coils since I was 4 and I'm now 53 and all of my ceramic =
sculptures have been coil built since the 70's . I can roll a mean coil. =
But I can't make it clear to beginners why theirs go flat, get hollow and =
look ugly. I say, "Use your whole hand." "Keep an even preasure." "Move =
hands outward from the middle as you roll." Any suggestions?
Bob Pulley
Bruce Girrell on tue 22 jan 02
Bob Pulley wrote:
> I can roll a mean coil. But I can't make it clear to
> beginners why theirs go flat, get hollow and look ugly. I say,
> "Use your whole hand." "Keep an even preasure." "Move hands
> outward from the middle as you roll." Any suggestions?
I'll be looking forward to the responses to this. I am in awe as I watch
videos of Maria Martinez and her peers producing coils that are almost as
consistent as anything from our extruder seemingly just by rubbing their
hands back and forth. Mine look like... well, let's not go there.
Bruce "scatological comparisons deleted" Girrell
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on tue 22 jan 02
Bob--
When my coils go flat, it usually is because I am trying too hard and want
to get the process over with instead of focusing on making the coil. I put
too much pressure on one side...usually at the start of the roll. I find it
is pretty difficult to get students to use their whole hand when
rolling...and also to keep an even pressure. You're saying all the right
things, but it is something they have to do over and over again before they
can feel it in their hand.
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Pulley [mailto:pulleyb@BCSC.K12.IN.US]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 10:06 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: flat, square and hollow coils
OK here is one for you educators out there. We are beginning coil pots. I
have been rolling coils since I was 4 and I'm now 53 and all of my ceramic
sculptures have been coil built since the 70's . I can roll a mean coil.
But I can't make it clear to beginners why theirs go flat, get hollow and
look ugly. I say, "Use your whole hand." "Keep an even preasure." "Move
hands outward from the middle as you roll." Any suggestions?
Bob Pulley
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Philip Poburka on tue 22 jan 02
Dear Bob,
They could use small pieces of a wide-ish, flat 'board'...maybe with the
egdes rounded a little...
Phil
ellvee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Pulley"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:06 AM
Subject: flat, square and hollow coils
OK here is one for you educators out there. We are beginning coil pots. I
have been rolling coils since I was 4 and I'm now 53 and all of my ceramic
sculptures have been coil built since the 70's . I can roll a mean coil.
But I can't make it clear to beginners why theirs go flat, get hollow and
look ugly. I say, "Use your whole hand." "Keep an even preasure." "Move
hands outward from the middle as you roll." Any suggestions?
Bob Pulley
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
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melpots@pclink.com.
Brooks Ratledge on tue 22 jan 02
They may be pressing to hard as they roll the coil.
P. Harden
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Pulley
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 3:36 PM
Subject: flat, square and hollow coils
OK here is one for you educators out there. We are beginning coil pots. I
have been rolling coils since I was 4 and I'm now 53 and all of my ceramic
sculptures have been coil built since the 70's . I can roll a mean coil.
But I can't make it clear to beginners why theirs go flat, get hollow and
look ugly. I say, "Use your whole hand." "Keep an even preasure." "Move
hands outward from the middle as you roll." Any suggestions?
Bob Pulley
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
potterybydai on tue 22 jan 02
Bob, tell them to let the coil roll free for a bit after they've made a
rolling pass with their whole hand, fingers spread wide---this way, their
hand/fingers don't land on the same place on the coil when they resume the
rolling motion. Boy, I don't know if I can make this clear----when you use
your hand/fingers to roll a coil, if you don't lift your hands from the coil
and reposition them, but instead just roll the coil back and forth, back and
forth, it will go flat. And it's almost impossible to round it again. The
"hollow" part, I find is usually caused by not squeezing the clay properly
into a "sausage" before starting to roll the coil. Also, make sure the clay
is soft enough, and slightly dampen the canvas they are working on. Dry
canvas just sucks the moisture out of the clay, and results in crumbly, and
less-round, coils. I find that some students catch on to making coils right
off the bat, and others struggle with it for a long time (these students
usually HATE coil projects!); personally, I think it's one of the harder
techniques for people to learn.
Good luck on this one!
Dai in Kelowna, BC, who spent the afternoon curling instead of
coiling---great exercise, and less stressful For those of you in the
deep south, curling is a sport played on an ice surface, with rocks and
brooms and lots of shouting. Invented by the same people who brought you
that other sport that involves balls and clubs and lots of swearing (the
Scots).
potterybydai@shaw.ca
Life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you
respond to it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Pulley"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:06 AM
Subject: [CLAYART] flat, square and hollow coils
OK here is one for you educators out there. We are beginning coil pots. I
have been rolling coils since I was 4 and I'm now 53 and all of my ceramic
sculptures have been coil built since the 70's . I can roll a mean coil.
But I can't make it clear to beginners why theirs go flat, get hollow and
look ugly. I say, "Use your whole hand." "Keep an even preasure." "Move
hands outward from the middle as you roll." Any suggestions?
Bob Pulley
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
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melpots@pclink.com.
vince pitelka on tue 22 jan 02
> OK here is one for you educators out there. We are beginning coil pots. I
have been rolling coils since I was 4 and I'm now 53 and all of my ceramic
sculptures have been coil built since the 70's . I can roll a mean coil.
But I can't make it clear to beginners why theirs go flat, get hollow and
look ugly. I say, "Use your whole hand." "Keep an even preasure." "Move
hands outward from the middle as you roll." Any suggestions?
Bob -
I guess we each have our own approach, and I would not presume to tell
someone as expereinced as you that there is a better way. I do have good
luck telling my students to roll coils with their outstretched fingers
spread apart, moving quickly out from the center. It does produce some
dimples and ridges on the coils, but those are of no consequence as long as
the coil is generally uniform along its length. I find that works much
better than rolling with the palm of the hand.
After the students form the clay into a long sausage shape, and they start
rolling it with their hands, the first thing they should do is roll the ends
out to a taper, so that the form looks like a giant cigar. As long as you
are using good soft plastic clay, that should eliminate the problem of
hollow coils. But if the clay is too stiff it will often still go hollow,
because it simply separates internally. As you know, coil construction is
always most efficient and successful with soft clay, because you can smear
the coils together without scoring or slurry, and it will produce an
extremely strong monolithic wall. The only times we ever score and use
slurry during coil construction is to attach the first coil when we return
to a form which has stiffened partially, or for other attachments.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Lee Burningham on tue 22 jan 02
Howdy,
You are probably using mostly fingers instead of the whole hand. The
tendency with beginners using their whole hand is to forget there is a ridge
of callouses along the top edge of their hands where the fingers attach. As
a result, they end up with a flattened coil when the callous ridge hits the
coil. Tell them to use fingers only, spread their fingers apart as they roll
the coils, and move along the coil rather than staying in one spot on the
coil.
I just love those coil pots/sculptures, too. Forces you to think 3-D of the
finished goal as you stack and work the coils together.
Lee Burningham
Philip Poburka on wed 23 jan 02
Also...rolling at a slight diagonal, that is not rolling straight across,
helps too...rolling along the length, one might say...and not in one place
perpendicularly...
Phil
LV
----- Original Message -----
From: "iandol"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 10:08 PM
Subject: flat, square and hollow coils
Dear Bob Pulley,
Overworking on a dry surface is one of the causes of hollow coils. Having
hot hands (learner anxiety!!) exaggerates the failure.
Evenness can be achieved by squeezing a sausage first then rolling it from
the centre allowing the hands to drift lightly across the clay as the
diameter diminishes, leaving s silk smooth, truly circular strand of clay in
one, or at most, two passes.
Squeeze off a dozen sausages then roll each this way. Always have students
roll sufficient clay to make the pot in one go, then there are no delays.
Secret of good coil building is fast working.
Have fun.
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
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Mary Lee on wed 23 jan 02
"But I can't make it clear to beginners why theirs (coils) go flat, get
hollow and look ugly."
For me, the light dawned when I read somewhere that it was the table that
shaped the coils and the fingers were used to give just enough pressure for
the coils to develop.
Mary L. Lee
Nanci Bishof on wed 23 jan 02
I have the kids start coils in their palms. If clay is too wet or too dry it
will not coil properly. They will quickly learn to judge its condition and
adjust that before coiling. That is key. Once the coil in rounded by rubbing
lightly between their palms they then lay it on a canvas covered surface to
roll it with their palm. Too much pressure flattens the coil. I teach them
how much pressure by having them extend their hand (they don't have too) and
rubbing over it with my palm like it was the coil. They move their hand
across the length of the coil as they're rolling it to keep the thickness
even. I demonstrate this method and show what happens if they don't keep
their hand moving across the coil's length at a consistent rate.
nanci
Valice Raffi on wed 23 jan 02
Bob,
First I have to get the students to STAND up! Wish I was joking, but most
of them try to roll coils from a sitting position. The other thing is that
they need to get loose & let the coils roll. Keeping their fingertips off
the coil (using mostly the palm for the pressure) will help too.
Although... as I tell my students, you CAN have a bad coil day!
Valice
>OK here is one for you educators out there. We are beginning coil pots. I
>have been rolling coils since I was 4 and I'm now 53 and all of my ceramic
>sculptures have been coil built since the 70's . I can roll a mean coil.
>But I can't make it clear to beginners why theirs go flat, get hollow and
>look ugly. I say, "Use your whole hand." "Keep an even preasure." "Move
>hands outward from the middle as you roll." Any suggestions?
>Bob Pulley
iandol on wed 23 jan 02
Dear Bob Pulley,
Overworking on a dry surface is one of the causes of hollow coils. =
Having hot hands (learner anxiety!!) exaggerates the failure.
Evenness can be achieved by squeezing a sausage first then rolling it =
from the centre allowing the hands to drift lightly across the clay as =
the diameter diminishes, leaving s silk smooth, truly circular strand of =
clay in one, or at most, two passes.
Squeeze off a dozen sausages then roll each this way. Always have =
students roll sufficient clay to make the pot in one go, then there are =
no delays. Secret of good coil building is fast working.
Have fun.
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
william schran on thu 24 jan 02
Bob - Think more stretching out the coil, than pressing down on it.
It's sudden pressure on the clay that causes the flat coil. Just have
them roll the coil with very little pressure and work to "stretch" it.
Bill
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