David and Hani on thu 1 nov 01
i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new instructor
who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
step for my technical abilities, but i wanted to hear what you guys
have to say.
Dannon Rhudy on thu 1 nov 01
At 10:28 PM 11/1/01 +0200, you wrote:
>i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
>dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new instructor
>who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
>step for my technical abilities, .......
I say this is a positive step for your technical abilities. You
may find it is also a positive step for you aesthetically. It
is difficult to make competent judgements when our efforts are
limited by technical constraints. Ask the instructor to TEACH
you how to center. It will not take long, if the teacher is
interested and you are willing to suspend disbelief for a while.
Do what you're told, ask the teacher to SHOW you how much force
is needed, and where the force is best placed. Let the teacher
place their hands over yours, it will take a few minutes only.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Cindy Strnad on thu 1 nov 01
Dear David or Hani,
Coincidentally, I've just written the following in
anticipation of a pottery class I'll be teaching.
Maybe it will be of some use to you.
Centering
There are many ways to center. The one I have
chosen is easier on your wrists than some, as well
as being easy to master.
1. Form your clay into a "pug" approximately the
shape of a tuna can. This shape will vary
according to the type of pot you wish to make, but
"tuna can" is a good starting point. Get the clay
as round and perfect as you can. This will make
centering easier.
2. Place your clay as near the center of the wheel
as you can. If you need to, draw a circle on the
spinning wheel with a wet paintbrush and then
center the clay in this circle. Give the clay a
little downward shove to stick it to the bat.
3. Centering is easier with a fast wheel. Some
wheels do spin too rapidly, however. You will need
to find a speed which is comfortable for you. Dip
your sponge into the water and squeeze it out
about halfway. Hold the sponge inside your right
hand and place both hands around the far side of
the spinning clay, as if you would pull it toward
yourself. Exert moderate pulling force with the
fingers of both hands on the spinning clay until
you feel its movements becoming smooth. When you
feel no erratic movement, the clay is centered.
4. Press down firmly on the top of the clay pug
with the sponge, backed by the fingers of your
right hand to smooth the top. Or, if it works
easier for you, use your thumbs instead. Your clay
is now ready to throw.
Eventually, you will be able to center easily and
will dispense with many of these steps, but maybe
this will help you get started out.
Best wishes,
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
miriam shelomith on thu 1 nov 01
How long do you want to talk? :-)
My students have never fail to dismiss the importance of 1. wedging and 2.
centering... I just let them grumble and, as your teacher has, insist that
they do it anyway... However, I do go over and over and over, in as many
ways as I can, the different ways to wedge and center until the student and
I hit on a way that works for her/him.
Has you teacher watched you try to center? Has anyone? Do you know what a
centered piece of clay feels like? Maybe you are doing something with your
hands and/or body that you are not aware of and once note is made, it will
be on center. Or, have you cut your piece apart to check for air or other
lumps/bumps?
If it is any consolation, once you get it, you will quickly forget why and
how it was ever a problem.
pottermim
>From: David and Hani
>Subject: can we talk centering?
>Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 22:28:13 +0200
>>
>i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
>dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new instructor
>who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
>step for my technical abilities, but i wanted to hear what you guys
>have to say.
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Maid O'Mud on thu 1 nov 01
yes, it is.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David and Hani"
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 3:28 PM
Subject: can we talk centering?
snip
. i am thinking this is probably a positive
> step for my technical abilities>
>
snip
Cathi Newlin on thu 1 nov 01
I feel the same way.
But I think for me, its more a matter of not being good at wedging.
It seems what throws me off most when I try to center is usually an air
bubble in the clay. And also just being in a hurry.
I really hate wedging, but I try to be thorough. Still, I'm not quite
getting it.
I've moved one of my computers out to the barn/studio, and will be hooking
up the DSL out there, so maybe I'll get a web cam up and someone can tell
me where I'm going wrong...
At 02:28 PM 11/1/01, you wrote:
>i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
>dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new instructor
>who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
>step for my technical abilities, but i wanted to hear what you guys
>have to say.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
C Newlin, typicalgirl@stinkbalm.com
StinkBalm!
Midwest Boxer Rescues
Tommy Humphries on thu 1 nov 01
Absolutely, centering is one of the most important things to learn properly
when learning throwing.
If you have a hard time telling when you have your ball centered, just
center with your eyes closed, the task will become easier if you just rely
on touch.
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "David and Hani"
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 2:28 PM
Subject: can we talk centering?
> i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
> dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new instructor
> who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
> step for my technical abilities, but i wanted to hear what you guys
> have to say.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Dai Scott on thu 1 nov 01
Hi, David/Hani - I can't imagine how one could successfully make a pot
without centering! If my students don't bother to center properly, they
invariably end up with a pot that's higher on one side, or thicker on one
side---always lopsided, anyway. I can't imagine it coming out any other
way; how have you done it all this time?
Dai in Kelowna, BC
"There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
potterybydai@shaw.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "David and Hani"
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 12:28 PM
Subject: [CLAYART] can we talk centering?
> i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
> dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new instructor
> who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
> step for my technical abilities, but i wanted to hear what you guys
> have to say.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Rick Hugel on fri 2 nov 01
>i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
>dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new instructor
>who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
>step for my technical abilities, but i wanted to hear what you guys
>have to say.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Yes, learning to center would be a really giant step. Actually, it is the
key to being able to throw and size pot. After the beautiful symmetrical
pot is thrown, you can alter it anyway you like.
hani and david on fri 2 nov 01
no, i don't have *that* secret--non-centered centered pots. i *basically*
center and deal with the unevenness. in trying to save time on the centering
i invariably spend more time in the fixing...which i s why i do a
close-to-centered centering now. maybe what i mean is: do i absolutely
definately need to center 100% perfectly, or will a 95% percent centering be
ok? and is there a big difference in the outcome of two such pots. hani
----- Original Message -----
From: Dai Scott
To:
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: can we talk centering?
> Hi, David/Hani - I can't imagine how one could successfully make a pot
> without centering! If my students don't bother to center properly, they
> invariably end up with a pot that's higher on one side, or thicker on one
> side---always lopsided, anyway. I can't imagine it coming out any other
> way; how have you done it all this time?
> Dai in Kelowna, BC
> "There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
> potterybydai@shaw.ca
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David and Hani"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 12:28 PM
> Subject: [CLAYART] can we talk centering?
>
>
> > i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
> > dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new instructor
> > who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
> > step for my technical abilities, but i wanted to hear what you guys
> > have to say.
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Bruce Girrell on fri 2 nov 01
> no, i don't have *that* secret--non-centered centered pots. i *basically*
> center and deal with the unevenness... do i absolutely
> definately need to center 100% perfectly, or will a 95% percent
> centering be
> ok? and is there a big difference in the outcome of two such pots
The more I deal with clay the more I come to believe that uniformity is a
major key. Mix uniformly, dry uniformly, make uniformly thick walls. Most of
the bad habits of clay disappear if you handle it uniformly. Now if you're
Peter Voulkos, you ignore that rule because the effect that you're after is
different. But for us mortals, uniformity in mixing, centering, forming,
trimming, drying, firing, etc. is a desirable goal. Once you can create a
consistent result, then you can creatively break the rules and learn how
your changes affect the result.
My two cents on centering: I set my left elbow about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way
between my left knee and hip. The force of centering comes from the strength
of my leg, not my hands. My arm and hand serve primarily to deliver the
force of my leg to the clay.
I disagree with those who start out centering at a high speed. I start
centering at a moderately slow speed and increase the wheel speed to its
maximum only as the clay goes to center.
Bruce "for what it's worth" Girrell
Cindy Strnad on fri 2 nov 01
Dear Hani,
Yes--sorry, but yes, you do need to center 100%
perfectly *if* you want to be a competent potter.
It's one of the few things in clay which it is
possible to do within a millimeter of perfection.
Really, once you get the feel of it, you'll wonder
why you ever had any difficulty. As Dannon said,
ask your teacher to place his/her hands over
yours. Or if that puts you off, have the teacher
at least center some clay for you, and then feel
it with the wheel spinning.
It's like this: you need to know the techniques
and have a good solid base before you start
wandering off this way or that way. There's
nothing wrong with throwing uncentered clay if
you're doing it because that's what you *want* to
do. But if you're doing it because that's the best
you can manage, then that's a very limiting thing.
But it's your game, and if you don't want to learn
to center, well, you don't have to learn to
center.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
cindy@earthen-vessels-pottery.com
http://www.earthen-vessels-pottery.com
Dannon Rhudy on fri 2 nov 01
Hani wrote:
i *basically* center and deal with the unevenness.
in trying to save time on the centering
>i invariably spend more time in the fixing...which i s why i do a
>close-to-centered centering now. maybe what i mean is:
will a 95% percent centering be
>ok? and is there a big difference in the outcome of two such pots. hani
It takes a lot more time to "deal with unevenness" than
it does to center the clay. Once you learn to center the
clay, it will be automatic AND will take only a couple of
seconds. If you are centering very LARGE amounts of clay,
25 pounds or so, then it might take a little longer. But
not much. There is an enormous difference between pots made
from centered clay and those made from NON-centered clay.
Centered is precisely that - centered. It has only one
meaning, just as "unique" has only one meaning. You seem
to be making a big fuss over a small chore. Tell the teacher
to show you how to do it right, and then you won't ever have
to think about it again.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Rick Hugel on fri 2 nov 01
>no, i don't have *that* secret--non-centered centered pots. i *basically*
>center and deal with the unevenness. in trying to save time on the centering
>i invariably spend more time in the fixing...which i s why i do a
>close-to-centered centering now. maybe what i mean is: do i absolutely
>definately need to center 100% perfectly, or will a 95% percent centering be
>ok? and is there a big difference in the outcome of two such pots. hani
Have you ever watched people bowling, golfing, shooting basketball,
archery, tennis? What is the difference between 95% and 100%? I'm really
surprised that you would even ask such a question. There no more
satisfying feeling in the world than pulling up the wall of a 30 inch (or
more) vase, having a perfect flow of the form topped with a absolutely even
rim with no trimming, cutting, fixing, or whatever necessary. Hang in
there. Keep working on getting that 100%.
The resulting perfect pot will be the most fabulously rewarding heady
feeling you have ever experienced! Trust everyone who has advised you on
this!
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Dai Scott
>To:
>Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 3:34 AM
>Subject: Re: can we talk centering?
>
>
>> Hi, David/Hani - I can't imagine how one could successfully make a pot
>> without centering! If my students don't bother to center properly, they
>> invariably end up with a pot that's higher on one side, or thicker on one
>> side---always lopsided, anyway. I can't imagine it coming out any other
>> way; how have you done it all this time?
>> Dai in Kelowna, BC
>> "There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
>> potterybydai@shaw.ca
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David and Hani"
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 12:28 PM
>> Subject: [CLAYART] can we talk centering?
>>
>>
>> > i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
>> > dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new instructor
>> > who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
>> > step for my technical abilities, but i wanted to hear what you guys
>> > have to say.
>> >
>> >
>>
>____________________________________________________________________________
>> __
>> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>> >
>> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>> >
>> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>>
>____________________________________________________________________________
>__
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
David Hendley on fri 2 nov 01
Shhh. Don't tell the beginning pottery students.
No, you don't need to center a clay ball 100% perfectly before
you proceed with throwing a pot.
It's really a waste of a few seconds to try to get the lump
perfect. All you need is approximate.
It's actually easier and faster to center the walls after the ball
has been opened.
It doesn't matter, as long as you are centered before you start
raising the walls.
Just another case of a rule that is made to be broken. If I were
teaching beginners, I would insist that they center properly.
You have to be able to follow the rule before you can choose
to disregard it, so of course it's proper for your instructor to
insist that you master the task.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David and Hani"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 12:28 PM
> > Subject: [CLAYART] can we talk centering?
> >
> >
> > > i have never felt like a competent centerer, and thus, i always
> > > dismissed centering as over-rated. now however, i have a new
instructor
> > > who wants my pots centered. i am thinking this is probably a positive
> > > step for my technical abilities, but i wanted to hear what you guys
> > > have to say.
> > >
> > >
> >
iandol on sat 3 nov 01
Dear Hani and David,
If you do not get the clay concentric with the rotation of the wheel =
axle then the next step will always be imperfect, that is opening the =
cone of clay to create the cavity. One side will always be slightly =
thicker and the other slightly thinner. Then as the clay is lifted =
either this situation remains and you start to get a wobble or one side =
rises further than the other and you start to use that needle tool to =
get an even, level rim which causes a loss of height.
Newcomers to the wheel should be given soft responsive clay by their =
teachers, mentors or tutors so that only a light moulding force is =
needed to make the clay form the initial cone. If it seems to need more =
strength than you have the muscle for then the clay is not prepared to =
correct consistency for a learner.
If you need to expand these ideas further, ask me to elaborate.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia.
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