Terrance Lazaroff on tue 19 jun 01
Craig;
I like what you said but I would be very careful about going to the store
and picking up the work. This may be looked at as theft in the eyes of the
law.
Kim could telephone and request permission to retrieve the work and if the
gallery owner says no then that's it. The only recourse open is to: Send a
monthly invoice showing the balance outstanding and stipulating that a 1.5%
interest will be added to the outstanding balance each month.
After three invoices Kim should either seek legal aid. The amount may be
too much for small claims court but Kim may be able to put a lien on the
store and the merchandise in it. This means the store cannot sell anything
until the lien is paid off. This action will cost legal fees but the amount
of money outstanding makes it the best route.
One other recourse is to sell the debt to a bill collector. They often take
50% percent but they will put the fear of god into the store owners and they
never go away.
The chances of getting paid now are slim so the only way is to put the store
out of business legally.
Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Martell"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: People's P...business thoughts
> Hi:
>
> Excellent post Tom Wirt!
>
> Kim:
>
> What you may want to consider is demanding the return of all unsold items
> so you can sell your work to someone else or whoever or whatever, to keep
> yourself solvent. I believe you mentioned that you drove to one location
> to deliver work, so you could go to that point and pick up what's
> there. I'm sure you can sense that this is a LAST resort tactic. If you
> have a purchase order for your work that stipulates "net 90" and you
> haven't agreed to extend this in writing, you can sieze any of your pots
> that are beyond the net 90 due date. They don't belong to People's Pottery
> until you are paid in full as per the terms of your agreement. You can
> also demand to see an inventory of what has been sold, if they have such a
> thing and a lot of shops do, and keep that on the books as "payment
> due". This is an inventory and accounting nightmare for you and People's
> Pottery as well but if they won't pay you it's better to get as much back
> as you can. Something is better than nothing.
>
> Also, the "investors" not coming thru excuse is pure BS. The premise
> behind net 30 to net whatever is to let your buyer recoup some or all of
> his initial cash outlay before you are paid. This is good biz for both
> buyer and seller if the terms are adhered to. Any outfit that relies on
> investors for buying capital and inventory should be ignored in my
> opinion. Cash flow from gallery to artists should be generated from sales
> and operation of the gallery. If they don't have enough money or
projected
> income to buy and pay on time, they need to get a clue and cut back on
> their outlay of dough. I say this from two sides of the fence. On one
> side, I'm a potter and I wholesale and consign. On the other side, I'm
> Co-owner of a gallery here in Oregon. We don't buy if we can't pay!!
>
> I hope you get this worked out OK, Craig Martell in Oregon
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Richard Jeffery on tue 19 jun 01
You'll love this - I have work with a gallery run my an excellent craftsman
in another discipline - he seems to live off the shop takings, and pays
artists/makers from commissions for his own work... Am moving over to cash
on delivery as soon as possible...
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Craig Martell
Sent: 19 June 2001 19:59
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: People's P...business thoughts
Hi:
Excellent post Tom Wirt!
... I say this from two sides of the fence. ... We don't buy if we can't
pay!!
I hope you get this worked out OK, Craig Martell in Oregon
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Tom Wirt/Betsy Price on tue 19 jun 01
I'm going to expand on this a bit since it contains some important
lessons for those doing wholesale.
What it appears has happened (we also do the Rosen show) is that a
company has gotten into financial trouble. They had started to ask
major accounts from whom they purchase for 60 and 90 day credit.
Several I have personally talked to refused this as did we when they
asked. Upon this refusal, they turned to smaller suppliers, placing
large orders...oftentimes a major percent of the potters capacity.
This practice was the trigger for the discussion on Clayart of 90 day
billing in February. Everyone responding said NEVER do it.
Now the account is defaulting on payments, or extending them WAY
beyond the 90 days as in Kim's case.
Lesson 1: NEVER let an account become more than 10-15% of your sales.
The same is true for street fairs.
Lesson 2: ALWAYS check references.
Lesson 3: Never ship a second shipment until the first is paid
for...especially if they are large (for us) shipments.
Lesson 4: Never extend credit terms that are longer than the terms you
receive from suppliers. Otherwise you are merely financing your
customer.
Lesson 5: Lawyers, credit bureaus, Better business bureaus etc., are
only as good as the accounts ability to pay. When the pressure gets
too great, they bankrupt. Even credit references are suspect since
they obviously won't give you someone they are stiffing.
Lesson 6: Don't let the ego of a big order or an important account
get in the way of good business sense. (Another good friend turned
down $7,000 of orders from PP and it hurt greatly...but not as much as
shipping the pots and never getting paid).
Lesson 7: If the retailers' business model (large mass marketing of
"handmade" work) don't fit together, be suspicious right off. Would
you really want these people to market your work?
Lesson 8: Even though the people are nice and mean well, you can't
take that to the bank.
Some of this ties right into what Wendy was talking about the schools
not teaching business to art students. This should be basic Retail
Business 101.
I've volunteered to help teach this. Our local community college has
taken me up on it. The Universities generally don't want "outsiders"
wandering around their halls.
But I digress....The advice for Kim at this stage is to negotiate the
best payment terms she can and then hassle them to stick to it. Get
everything in writing....EVERYTHING. and confirm agreements in
writing. YOu won't be able to sue, but writing sometimes is a bigger
commitment than teleophone conversations ("I said THAT???). You as a
small supplier will take second seat to the big suppliers where they
get most of their stuff.
Tom Wirt
Craig Martell on tue 19 jun 01
Hi:
Excellent post Tom Wirt!
Kim:
What you may want to consider is demanding the return of all unsold items
so you can sell your work to someone else or whoever or whatever, to keep
yourself solvent. I believe you mentioned that you drove to one location
to deliver work, so you could go to that point and pick up what's
there. I'm sure you can sense that this is a LAST resort tactic. If you
have a purchase order for your work that stipulates "net 90" and you
haven't agreed to extend this in writing, you can sieze any of your pots
that are beyond the net 90 due date. They don't belong to People's Pottery
until you are paid in full as per the terms of your agreement. You can
also demand to see an inventory of what has been sold, if they have such a
thing and a lot of shops do, and keep that on the books as "payment
due". This is an inventory and accounting nightmare for you and People's
Pottery as well but if they won't pay you it's better to get as much back
as you can. Something is better than nothing.
Also, the "investors" not coming thru excuse is pure BS. The premise
behind net 30 to net whatever is to let your buyer recoup some or all of
his initial cash outlay before you are paid. This is good biz for both
buyer and seller if the terms are adhered to. Any outfit that relies on
investors for buying capital and inventory should be ignored in my
opinion. Cash flow from gallery to artists should be generated from sales
and operation of the gallery. If they don't have enough money or projected
income to buy and pay on time, they need to get a clue and cut back on
their outlay of dough. I say this from two sides of the fence. On one
side, I'm a potter and I wholesale and consign. On the other side, I'm
Co-owner of a gallery here in Oregon. We don't buy if we can't pay!!
I hope you get this worked out OK, Craig Martell in Oregon
Tom Wirt/Betsy Price on wed 20 jun 01
Folks....we apparently don't understand what People's Pottery
is....it's a 60-plus store chain. They bring the inventory in to a
central point and then ship it all over the Eastern US. If something
doesn't sell in one store, it goes to another. This is a big time
company, big time investment. If it crashes it may take a number of
individual artists with it.
It's a scary situation for the artisan world....and I'm not known as
an alarmist.
Tom Wirt
PS...Terry, is your "Pricing-My Turn still available?"
Robin S. Martinez on wed 20 jun 01
This is my first post since recently subscribing to clayart, so hello
everyone.
I've been following this thread with some interest. Here are a couple of
thoughts:
1. Depending on the state(s) in which the artist and the gallery are
located, different rules may apply. A number of states have specific laws
that protect artists who consign their work to galleries. For example, in
Missouri (where I live), the legislature added a separate section to the
state's merchandising practices law that relates to consignment by artists
of their work to art dealers (interestingly, if art is sold to a dealer who
doesn't pay, the transaction is deemed to be a consignment for the purposes
of this law). Among other things, the law puts art dealers in a fiduciary
relationship with the artist; which is an important point because it holds
the dealer to a higher standard than would normally exist between parties to
a commercial transaction. Additionally, Missouri's law (and that of a
number of other states) allows for recovery of legal fees by the artist.
The ability to recover legal fees is often the difference between an
attorney deciding to take a case instead of passing on it -- as a lawyer, I
can speak from experience as to that point. :)
2. Collectibility is the other main issue. The old adage about trying to
squeeze blood from a turnip is absolutely correct. If the gallery is
insolvent, there's not much you can do except attempt to recover any unsold
items. It's worth noting that some states have laws that protect artists'
work from seizure by other creditors of the dealer. This can be an
important protection if all that's left to fight over is inventory.
Regards,
Robin Martinez
robin@martinezlaw.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Terrance Lazaroff
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 6:05 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: People's P...business thoughts
Craig;
I like what you said but I would be very careful about going to the store
and picking up the work. This may be looked at as theft in the eyes of the
law.
Kim could telephone and request permission to retrieve the work and if the
gallery owner says no then that's it. The only recourse open is to: Send a
monthly invoice showing the balance outstanding and stipulating that a 1.5%
interest will be added to the outstanding balance each month.
After three invoices Kim should either seek legal aid. The amount may be
too much for small claims court but Kim may be able to put a lien on the
store and the merchandise in it. This means the store cannot sell anything
until the lien is paid off. This action will cost legal fees but the amount
of money outstanding makes it the best route.
One other recourse is to sell the debt to a bill collector. They often take
50% percent but they will put the fear of god into the store owners and they
never go away.
The chances of getting paid now are slim so the only way is to put the store
out of business legally.
Terry
Janet Kaiser on wed 20 jun 01
Terry
Is it really true that work which was ordered and
delivered, but not paid for has legally passed into the
possession of the buyer in the USA? As you sure? Surely
the work remains the property of the supplier (in this
case the manufacturer) until paid for in full?
Retrieval would surely be the best course, if at all
possible and it has not already been distributed far
and wide.
If your "take" is true... Well, it is surely a very
worrying prospect for everyone who sells or intends
selling work wholesale? It sounds like legalised theft
to me! What do you say, Tom? Is it larceny?
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> I like what you said but I would be very careful
about going to the store
> and picking up the work. This may be looked at as
theft in the eyes of the
> law.
iandol on thu 21 jun 01
Dear Tom,
Thank you for supporting my opinion that students of Arts and Crafts at =
Tertiary Institutions be given instructions in business skills and =
marketing. Perhaps someone at Harvard Business School could come up with =
a general model curriculum. Or would a MBA be a better step up, rather =
than that ubiquitous MFA, in the next stage of career development?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis
L. P. Skeen on thu 21 jun 01
HA! When I was in college at UNC-Greensboro, I specifically asked Mark
David Gottsegen for a "Business of Art" class, and he flatly refused on the
grounds that such a class was/is not needed.
L
Thank you for supporting my opinion that students of Arts and Crafts at
Tertiary Institutions be given instructions in business skills and
marketing. Perhaps someone at Harvard Business School could come up with a
general model curriculum. Or would a MBA be a better step up, rather than
that ubiquitous MFA, in the next stage of career development?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
debkaplan3 on fri 22 jun 01
Dear Tom & Ivor,
I think both of your suggestions are on the mark. I am an MBA/ consultant
(12yrs) now turned artist. Pottery & jewelry are my passions so that's what
I do. However, I find it very difficult to market myself. I can finacially
analyze my business up the ying yang, cost vs revenues, identifing
expenses, assessing sales avenues, reviewing promotional choices, but I
just can't seem to not only decide where I want my work sold but can't step
in the door or make the phone call. To have a class to guide the way,
basically brainwash me, would be fabulous. I think an MBA (there's no basic
Retail Business 101 in an MFA???) & an experienced selling potter or potters
would be an excellent way to come up with a curruculum. Tom, what you had to
say as an experienced businessman / potter is right on the mark, precisely
identifing specific actions.
Some additional ideas on curriculum:
1. What kind of a business do you want?
..one that maximizes your income (may involve expansion, employees, larger
studio etc...), make a living ( at home studio, may need to hire assistant,
or occassional help), support yourself while maximizing creative expression
(combo of functional work & sculptural.. teaching a class or workshops) In
business policy class types of businesses are first assessed as to what they
are, Mom & Pop, Live Style oriented, etc.. This line of thought goes along
with Lowell's question of "Where do you see yourself in 5, 10, etc years?"
Every business interview I ever had I was asked this question.
2. Marketing
What do you want to make & where will it sell best? This is not just
considering, gallery vs art/craft store, retail vs wholesale, on line,
direct to the public through at home sales or craft shows, but in what area
of the country would your work sell the best. I once worked as a buyer for
Filenes deoartment stores in MA & there was a slightly different merchandise
mix based on the location of the store, suburbs more conservative,
Cambridge definetly funky/eclectic. Go into lots of shops to see where your
work would be complimentary (however uniquely novel).
How to promote yourself - developing a promotional packet. This would
include, artist statement, resume, pictures of work, & pricing. Everything
in one folder for the buyer to see at a glance.
3. Financial How to do financial statements
Cash flow analysis is usually most important to a sole proprietorship & it
is done either on the computer (Excel type program) or on a big piece of
spreadsheet paper. It is done by planning income & expenses business
related (which shoul dinclude your own salary ) on a month to month basis.
So first figure out how much you need to survive...live the way you want &
that would be 1 expense- salary. Then all the expenses of running your
business, raw materials, equipment, tools, advertising, etc.. Next where is
your income coming from. I do workshops Sept through May so that would be 1
source of business revenue, income from each store that sells your work,
craft shows, etc.. List total sales less returns & allowances & sales tax..
An income statement is needed for income tax purposes. Basically it shows
on paper revenues - cost of goods sold - expenses. You want to maximize
your expenses on this report in order to decrease your income in order to
decrease your business taxes. (note you will still be paying tax on your
salary)
This is certainly not all but I'm starting to bore myself so I will stop
here.
Luck to all
Debbie Kaplan
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of iandol
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 2:52 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: People's P...business thoughts
Dear Tom,
Thank you for supporting my opinion that students of Arts and Crafts at
Tertiary Institutions be given instructions in business skills and
marketing. Perhaps someone at Harvard Business School could come up with a
general model curriculum. Or would a MBA be a better step up, rather than
that ubiquitous MFA, in the next stage of career development?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Katheleen Nez on fri 22 jun 01
When I went to art school/The Institute of American
Indian Arts, you couldn't graduate until you took
"Business Priciples for the Artist." We learned to
make slides, made a portfolio and learned how to pay
all the taxes and market ourselves. This was a 2 yr
program, and all the people I know who went on to 4yr
art schools said they really appreciated taking that
class, because the 4yr schools didn't require it. NEZ
with the thunderheads gathering in the Sangre de
Cristos and over the Jemez...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Tom Wirt/Betsy Price on sat 23 jun 01
> At any rate, IMHO we all owe Wendy bigtime thanks for
> raising the profile of business management in our world.
>
Karen....Wendy is the right person to thank for a lot of what's
happening businesswise in the world of wholesale craft. She takes an
active role in trying to stop people such as the recently discussed
situation....and goes over backward to improve the business acumen of
the craft world....get her book, "The Business of Craft" and check
out the website www.americanstyle.com
You don't see this level of support from ANY other craft organization.
We all owe her a large debt of gratitude.
Tom Wirt
iandol on sat 23 jun 01
Dear L. P. Skean
Regarding your comment specifically asked Mark David Gottsegen for a "Business of Art" class, =
and he flatly refused on the grounds that such a class was/is not =
needed.>
Did you ask him to justify his attitude?
Perhaps there is a need to reconsider the nature of the question. It may =
be pertinent to ask "What skills and knowledge do we need to succeed =
financially as well as professionally once you turn us out to pasture" =
or some other question which is not a direct confrontation against their =
philosophies or the brief of their terms of employment. In many cases if =
it is not in the job description, it cannot be accomplished in an =
educational setting.
Thanks for your insight.
Regards,
Ivor.
karen gringhuis on sat 23 jun 01
Don't expect a basic business of art course in art
schools any time soon. To some of these faculties
"employment" appears to be a four letter word.
As another potter with an MBA and BFA, this horrifies
me. At one point I think Wendy Rosen managed an
Institute which offered such courses. If this is is
still available, maybe it has already been posted
here?
At any rate, IMHO we all owe Wendy bigtime thanks for
raising the profile of business management in our world.
=====
Karen Gringhuis
KG Pottery
Box 607 Alfred NY 14802
Personal e-mail to:
KGPottery@hotmail.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
iandol on sun 24 jun 01
Dear Debbie,
Making that first introduction is hard for everyone. Doing it for the =
very first time is total psychological trauma. Most people are never =
cured. One traditional name for the condition is "Stage Fright" and even =
seasoned actors will admit to suffering from it.
People who wish to sell their work by representing themselves need to =
think about writing their own script. This, I suspect, should be drawn =
from the mission statement which is the foundation stone of the =
"Business Plan". They then need to rehearse this "live". As I said =
earlier, using roll play exercises is a valid learning strategy. Voicing =
in one's imagination is insufficient. You have to listen to your self =
saying the words to be able to recall them when they are needed and you =
need real life responses and alternatives. Such rehearsals helped me =
overcome stage fright.
Did I hear someone whisper "What's a Business Plan?"
Some great ideas in the rest of your message. Thank you for making a =
contribution.
Best regards,
Ivor.
| |
|
