vince pitelka on sun 8 apr 01
> I agree that professors should advise their students about proper dress
> behavior at such events; the students are not only representing
> but also their schools. In addition, the title "National Council on
> Education in the Ceramic Arts" implies, at least to me, that the
> would be about Education in the Ceramic Arts, and here's a newsflash for
> government idiots in charge of determining teacher pay: Education is a
> professional occupation. While I would not expect most folks to go to the
> tie and jacket wearing extreme at such a conference, I would expect them
> leave the ripped jeans at home.
I am sorry, but this is really petty. You would expect professors to
educate their students in proper dress and behavior? What is this, higher
education charm school? We struggle to give our students all the
information we can bestow upon them concerning clay and glazes and
techniques and history and professionalism in ceramics. We try to teach
them to be creative and original. The way they behave socially and the way
they dress are their responsibility and their parents responsibility, and
for them individually these are valued forms of freedom of expression. I am
surprised that anyone in the clay world would be the least bit startled or
offended that students attend NCECA in ripped jeans or any other form of
eccentric dress. We in the clay world have always been a rather endearingly
scruffy group. Dress however you want, but don't try to change the
collective image. Let it take care of itself.
Remember that these are college students. They are SUPPOSE to be
challenging our expectations of dress and behavior. Do you really want to
condemn them for this?
Best wishes -
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - email@example.com
Work - firstname.lastname@example.org
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> The issue of BYOB into the hotel bar is just plain bad manners, and I'm
> surprised the hotels dinna throw 'em out.
> L. P. Skeen www.living-tree.net
> Living Tree Pottery & Handmade Soaps, Summerfield, NC
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Lisa P Skeen on mon 9 apr 01
> Remember that these are college students. They are SUPPOSE to be
> challenging our expectations of dress and behavior.
I think you missed Terry's original note in this thread in which he made several valid points about
the college students attending NCECA, only one of which had anything to do with their dress. I
agree with you re: their dress, when they're on campus or even around town in general. God knows
I never dressed up when I was in school - I had a pair of overalls for every day of the week.
However, this was a professional education conference. Imagine if it had been the other way
around; we'd be saying, "Geez, did you notice how nice and polite and well-dressed those college
kids were? What a credit they are to their schools."
Linda Blossom on mon 9 apr 01
For the first time, I am not in agreement with Vince. The original post did
not say people should not dress casually. He was speaking about the effort
some of the very young seem to make to be as poorly attired as possible.
Clean and somewhat maintained is what he was saying. Just be clean and have
your jeans in one piece. He also spoke of the kids sitting outside on the
lawn, in front of the hotel, on the floor in walkways and in the bar. This
wasn't a Motel 6, it was a nice hotel that would like the other guests to
not be put off by the behavior of a few. It was rude behavior that Terr was
talking about and very just out of the studio dirty clothes.
My disagreement with Vince is this: few 18-22 year old students would even
know about NCECA if not for their instructors. Now when the instructor is
telling them about it and encouraging them to go, it would not take much to
mention that they could act a little professional - at least in a self
employed clay sense. Not suit and tie, not even pants, but show some
MANNERS. Not saying we need to suppress their creativity or originality.
Just use some good sense. Don't sit on the ground like a bunch of ground
squirrels that still have winter fur hanging off that hasn't quite released
yet. One piece clothes that are clean and using the two feet they came with
or a chair. That just CAN'T be too much to ask. Having taught school for
ten years, I know Vince's reaction to telling a teacher to do one more
thing. But if you think it is important that they attend a professional
conference, and YOU are the one encouraging them to go, use the influence of
the teacher to tell them that the rest of the group would appreciate that
they act like adults. We all modify our dress and behavior depending upon
where we happen to be. A nice hotel...a motel six...a studio...a class...a
nice restaurant...a fast food place. We all know how to dress and act
appropriately depending on the setting.
I pasted Lisa's and Terry's post to show that neither seems to be saying
that we should infringe on people's rights of expression:
> the college students attending NCECA, only one of which had anything to do
with their dress. I
> agree with you re: their dress, when they're on campus or even around town
in general. God knows
> I never dressed up when I was in school - I had a pair of overalls for
every day of the week.
> However, this was a professional education conference. Imagine if it had
been the other way
> around; we'd be saying, "Geez, did you notice how nice and polite and
well-dressed those college
> kids were? What a credit they are to their schools."
Terry's post (most of it):
Though the usual mode of dress for many ceramists is jeans and a clean
many of the younger crowd shows up at the conference looking like they just
finished a day in the studio. Along with that, many of them think sitting
the floor of the hotel lobby, in the walkways outside the bar, or wherever
and drinking a beer is acceptable. In some cases they would even bring their
own booze, even into the hotel bar. This was a major bone of contention at
the Las Vegas convention and was also quite visible at the Adams Mark in
Charlotte. I'm a fairly loose fellow but never thought this sort of
appearance and behavior was acceptable in the public areas of a good hotel.
It does "piss off" the hotel staff and certainly makes a bad impression that
reflects on us all.
My suggestion would be that instructors, and others, who encourage their
students to attend the conference, as well they should, also give a little
instruction on the minimum edict (both dress and behavior) when at such a
function. Without any strict dress "code" or such; it might be that the
NCECA registration and conference instructions might gently mention this
Chris Clarke on tue 10 apr 01
I did not attend NCECA, I'm terrified of crowds, but discussing proper dress
seems a tad silly to me. Ripped jeans? Does this really effect the
conference? Did it ruin anyone's time? I suppose sometimes we choose to
focus on things that mean little. And I think we focus too much on the young
in a negative way. There's no excuse for bad manners but by the time kids
get to college few words from a professor will change what has been taught
to them for years by their parents. Rude and unruly is something people of
all ages share.
I recently attended a show at a local winery. People of all ages walked by,
some old, some young, many were well dressed, some were not. There was no
common thread among the poorly dressed people (or age) and ridiculous
behavior. Some of the best dressed were drunk and in the grass (some not
by choice) acting like morons. Don't let boorish behavior ruin a good time.
I stood and shook my head thinking "rich people" as most picked themselves
up and proceeded to waiting limos.
I have always found the art crowd to be highly tolerant. My hope is for
that trend to continue, and I think it will. It is my intention to attend
next years conference, ripped jeans, piercings, red tipped hair and all.
I'll be behind the potted plant with Helena : ) chris
Ravenson on wed 11 apr 01
I have to agree with vince on this. I really do not mind the setting =
on the floor or the torn jeans as long as when I am trying to watch or =
listen to some one they are not getting it the way of me doing that. =
I found this NCECA to be much diffren then my first one(columbus) I did =
not get to walk arround an see as many shows , because of my leg being =
in a cast, but at the same time I got to talk to lots more peopel so it =
was a good trade off. I think that the fact we are seeing more =
younger potters at NCECA is very promsing it is the younger potters that =
will keep potting alive and push us higher. SO I say Let them come =
torn jeans and all. =20