Tom Buck on wed 17 jan 01
Mr. Edwards
is right to note that any recipe posted to the list is examined
for its safety with food. The reason is simple: if the glaze I or others
post is declared safe with food it can be used for any purpose including
claywork decoration without harm to anyone.
BTW, Mr. Edwards, any post made to Clayart is NOT public domain,
so any archival data from Clayart is likewise NOT public domain. The
original author retains all rights to the post. Of course, any single
person can inspect the archives for information for their own use
but copying such posts word for word would decidely be frowned on.
til later. Peace. Tom B.
Tom Buck ) tel: 905-389-2339
(westend Lake Ontario, province of Ontario, Canada).
mailing address: 373 East 43rd Street,
Hamilton ON L8T 3E1 Canada
Susan Otter on wed 17 jan 01
In a message dated 1/17/01 6:48:50 AM, Tom.Buck@HWCN.ORG writes:
<< BTW, Mr. Edwards, any post made to Clayart is NOT public domain,
so any archival data from Clayart is likewise NOT public domain. The
original author retains all rights to the post. Of course, any single
person can inspect the archives for information for their own use
but copying such posts word for word would decidely be frowned on.
til later. Peace. Tom B. >>
Not entirely, Tom.
The business I used to run was a small publishing company, so I have some
passing familiarity with copyright rules.
If someone typed in a section from a book or magazine article without the
author's permission, and posted it in a newsgroup like this -- that would be
an initial copyright violation.
However, if subsequent participants found that posting in archives and
printed it out, they -- having no opportunity to know it had been plagiarized
-- would not be at fault.
An assumption is made when information is posted publicly that the poster
intended to share it through this medium.
It would then be a copyright violation to move that text to new media (ex:
quote it in a magazine article or book). Just the act of copying the post
word for word, for one's personal use would not be copyright infringement.
Because of the medium where it was posted (an archived internet newsgroup) it
is assumed that the poster intended to share his or her words and information
in that way.
What people cannot do (and many do not know this) is go through information
posted anywhere and compile it for some new publication -- including a new
website.
Anyone who wants the ability to restrict who reads or prints out what they've
said would be better off not to post in a newsgroup, because once information
has been released to the internet, it's very difficult to track where it's
disseminated, and more often than not, attribution will be lost at some point
along the way.
Ron Roy on thu 18 jan 01
I'm afraid there might be some misunderstanding here - most glazes posted
to clay art will not have been tested and many are downright scary. There
are ways to find these things out but the prudent attitude would be to
assume they are not till investigation proved other wise unless they have
been tested by the author. Asking for a copy of the lab report would be
best but assume some of the cost that went into that.
Keep in mind - even thought there are no toxins present - the glaze may
shiver on the clay you are using - that makes makes it unsafe for food.
Any one who uses the material I have posted to clay art for profit without
my permission is in for a surprise - one way or the other you are going to
have to pay.
I am still learning and some of my earlier posts are not up to date - I
repeat - if you use what I have published here you better make sure I am
comfortable with it. My reputaion - such as it is - is important to me.
RR
> is right to note that any recipe posted to the list is examined
>for its safety with food. The reason is simple: if the glaze I or others
>post is declared safe with food it can be used for any purpose including
>claywork decoration without harm to anyone.
>so any archival data from Clayart is likewise NOT public domain. The
>original author retains all rights to the post. Of course, any single
>person can inspect the archives for information for their own use
>but copying such posts word for word would decidely be frowned on.
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
Randall Moody on fri 19 jan 01
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Roy"
> Any one who uses the material I have posted to clay art for profit without
> my permission is in for a surprise - one way or the other you are going to
> have to pay.
>
> I am still learning and some of my earlier posts are not up to date - I
> repeat - if you use what I have published here you better make sure I am
> comfortable with it. My reputaion - such as it is - is important to me.
I am not sure but it seems that you are arguing intellectual property rights
for your glaze formulas. While I am not a lawyer, I think that you might
have trouble arguing this point if you have posted the formula(s) to a
ostensibly public listserve. If there are any lawyer types out in clayart
land I would love to hear from them.
Also, it would stand to reason that if you have "published" it here you were
comfortable enough with it to put it out in cyberland. Please do not read
this as antagonistic, these are just "devil's" advocate arguments.
Post House Pottery on fri 19 jan 01
I'm not a lawyer either but did see on the news this week that a group of
scientists had successfully patented brocolli sprouts exactly as they grow
in nature. They used the recently accepted patent avenue of "business
process" and now hold patent to all brocolli sprouts, which they claim have
certain health benefits. They are aggressively persuing farmers and
packagers of said produce as violators of their patent.
So it seems to me, as a layman, that the glaze recipes might soon be
patented (by those persons or corporate entities so inclined) as business
processes. Egad! Perhaps someone should patent new attorneys, law school
being a business process, and then not license out the patent.
Neil Berkowitz
Seattle, WA, where the camellias are abloom on schedule.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Moody"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Roy"
>
> > Any one who uses the material I have posted to clay art for profit
without
> > my permission is in for a surprise - one way or the other you are going
to
> > have to pay.
> >
> > I am still learning and some of my earlier posts are not up to date - I
> > repeat - if you use what I have published here you better make sure I am
> > comfortable with it. My reputaion - such as it is - is important to me.
>
> I am not sure but it seems that you are arguing intellectual property
rights
> for your glaze formulas. While I am not a lawyer, I think that you might
> have trouble arguing this point if you have posted the formula(s) to a
> ostensibly public listserve. If there are any lawyer types out in clayart
> land I would love to hear from them.
> Also, it would stand to reason that if you have "published" it here you
were
> comfortable enough with it to put it out in cyberland. Please do not read
> this as antagonistic, these are just "devil's" advocate arguments.
Greg Lamont on sat 20 jan 01
If the patent was indeed granted for brocolli sprouts that wouldn't have
much effect on the vegetable we currently eat--broccoli--due to the
different name.
-----Original Message-----
From: Post House Pottery
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Friday, January 19, 2001 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: food-safe glazes
>I'm not a lawyer either but did see on the news this week that a group of
>scientists had successfully patented brocolli sprouts exactly as they grow
>in nature. They used the recently accepted patent avenue of "business
>process" and now hold patent to all brocolli sprouts, which they claim have
>certain health benefits. They are aggressively persuing farmers and
>packagers of said produce as violators of their patent.
>
>So it seems to me, as a layman, that the glaze recipes might soon be
>patented (by those persons or corporate entities so inclined) as business
>processes. Egad! Perhaps someone should patent new attorneys, law school
>being a business process, and then not license out the patent.
>
>Neil Berkowitz
>Seattle, WA, where the camellias are abloom on schedule.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Randall Moody"
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ron Roy"
>>
>> > Any one who uses the material I have posted to clay art for profit
>without
>> > my permission is in for a surprise - one way or the other you are going
>to
>> > have to pay.
>> >
>> > I am still learning and some of my earlier posts are not up to date - I
>> > repeat - if you use what I have published here you better make sure I
am
>> > comfortable with it. My reputaion - such as it is - is important to me.
>>
>> I am not sure but it seems that you are arguing intellectual property
>rights
>> for your glaze formulas. While I am not a lawyer, I think that you might
>> have trouble arguing this point if you have posted the formula(s) to a
>> ostensibly public listserve. If there are any lawyer types out in clayart
>> land I would love to hear from them.
>> Also, it would stand to reason that if you have "published" it here you
>were
>> comfortable enough with it to put it out in cyberland. Please do not read
>> this as antagonistic, these are just "devil's" advocate arguments.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Ron Roy on mon 22 jan 01
Hi Randal,
I am not taking so much about recipes although if you use one of mine and
choose not to give credit your public image is going to suffer. I was
thinking about ideas and thoughts that are my own. Ways of putting things
as it were.
I do understand that there would be no legal recourse - at least not what I
could afford. There are other disadvantages to those who choose to simply
borrow rather than do their own. This free flow of information we are
experiencing can be used in many ways.
I am simply pointing out - if you use something I have said - with or
without using my byline - and the information has been revised - you have
done me and others a disservice and I am bound to point that out.
RR
>> Any one who uses the material I have posted to clay art for profit without
>> my permission is in for a surprise - one way or the other you are going to
>> have to pay.
>>
>> I am still learning and some of my earlier posts are not up to date - I
>> repeat - if you use what I have published here you better make sure I am
>> comfortable with it. My reputaion - such as it is - is important to me.
>
>I am not sure but it seems that you are arguing intellectual property rights
>for your glaze formulas. While I am not a lawyer, I think that you might
>have trouble arguing this point if you have posted the formula(s) to a
>ostensibly public listserve. If there are any lawyer types out in clayart
>land I would love to hear from them.
>Also, it would stand to reason that if you have "published" it here you were
>comfortable enough with it to put it out in cyberland. Please do not read
>this as antagonistic, these are just "devil's" advocate arguments.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
Randall Moody on mon 22 jan 01
Hello Ron,
I now see that you are talking about plagiarism of quotes, which I can
understand you would be upset about. I am still not convinced about the use
of glazes simply because one would have to show that they alone 'invented'
that glaze. With the incredible length of ceramic history I think that this
would be very hard to do. God forbid someone tries to patent a shino recipe!
You could also run into having the exact same glaze base but instead of
using _% Mason stain, using _% Cerdec stain.
One would also need to prove that the "idea" or thought had never been
thought before. I have often thought that philosophers were not really that
original in their ideas, they just happen to write it down!:)
> I am not taking so much about recipes although if you use one of mine and
> choose not to give credit your public image is going to suffer. I was
> thinking about ideas and thoughts that are my own. Ways of putting things
> as it were.
> I am simply pointing out - if you use something I have said - with or
> without using my byline - and the information has been revised - you have
> done me and others a disservice and I am bound to point that out.
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