Stephani Stephenson on tue 1 aug 00
Here's a observation on the corrosive nature of salts on fired clay.
An example of the forces at work.
I used to make clay pendants about 1inch by 3 inches in size. They were
burnished and pit fired, but first bisqued to cone 010 for added
strength. A friend of mine loved these pendants and wore one all the
time. He also ran everyday and perspired heavily during the run. He used
to wear a cotton John Deere hat when he ran and there was always a high
water mark of perspiration, a white wavy line of deposited body salts
ringing the hat, like the highwater mark around some alkaline lake.
Within a few weeks of wearing the pendant he noticed it was beginning to
look pitted and pockmarked. Within a year the pendant had lost all
color and evidence of black burnished surface. It was completely
corroded and pitted away . I had never seen this happen before .I had
been wearing a pendant for a number of years and had seen nothing of the
kind.
Actually the corroding pendant was rather beautiful and ancient
looking.He loved it that way , so once a year I gave him a new one and
he watched it age.
P.S. the pendants still outlasted the John Deere hats. He went through
five or six of those each year.
Though as a potter/sculptor, I am a lover of all things durable /
enduring....(.strong in Spanish is duro)....time IS erosion.
Even the rocks themselves have different rates at which they wash away
,blow away, fracture and corrode.
Not to say that craftsmen and craftswomen shouldn't hold their work to
high standards.
I treasure the pots and statues that have lasted centuries.
I've noticed some teabowls I've had for 20 or 30 years and used often
are showing age in a rather beautiful manner.
My own body will only last one lifetime, so it's OK with me that a few
clay things age more quickly than I. It makes me feel like I'm holding
up rather well in comparison!
The most beautiful bread bowl I ever owned, made 25 years ago by a
potter named Jeannie McMennimie of Milton Freewater,Oregon , would
likely have outlived me by several hundred years had not some lunk come
along and broken it...
c'est la vie.
Stephani Stephenson
Leucadia, CA
Alchemie Ceramic Tile Studio
the NAP on wed 2 aug 00
this is the best posting I've read on this subject since it began...
the decaying of the pot has no bearing on its quality. it is what it is.
maybe it is an object lesson in non-attachment, and of the impermanance of
the stuff that makes up the world. At one time the Grand Canyon was a level
plain...
the decaying indicates the pot is a living thing, not a static object frozen
forever in time. I think that is pretty cool. Besides, it seems
pretentious to think any pot or any other artwork for that matter deserves
to exist forever. Make it as well as you can, with as much spirit as you
can and let it go. It will live as long as it is supposed to.
and the wheel goes round.....
thoughts from the bank of the mainstream
the NAP
(no attitude pottery)
nap_pots@yahool.com
----- Original Message -----
From: mark boyd
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 3:26 PM
Subject: Fw: crumbling art- effects of salt and time
>
> the NAP
> (no attitude pottery)
> nap_pots@yahool.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephani Stephenson
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:42 AM
> Subject: crumbling art- effects of salt and time
>
>
> > Here's a observation on the corrosive nature of salts on fired clay.
> > An example of the forces at work.
> > I used to make clay pendants about 1inch by 3 inches in size. They were
> > burnished and pit fired, but first bisqued to cone 010 for added
> > strength. A friend of mine loved these pendants and wore one all the
> > time. He also ran everyday and perspired heavily during the run. He used
> > to wear a cotton John Deere hat when he ran and there was always a high
> > water mark of perspiration, a white wavy line of deposited body salts
> > ringing the hat, like the highwater mark around some alkaline lake.
> >
> > Within a few weeks of wearing the pendant he noticed it was beginning to
> > look pitted and pockmarked. Within a year the pendant had lost all
> > color and evidence of black burnished surface. It was completely
> > corroded and pitted away . I had never seen this happen before .I had
> > been wearing a pendant for a number of years and had seen nothing of the
> > kind.
> >
> > Actually the corroding pendant was rather beautiful and ancient
> > looking.He loved it that way , so once a year I gave him a new one and
> > he watched it age.
> >
> > P.S. the pendants still outlasted the John Deere hats. He went through
> > five or six of those each year.
> >
> >
> > Though as a potter/sculptor, I am a lover of all things durable /
> > enduring....(.strong in Spanish is duro)....time IS erosion.
> > Even the rocks themselves have different rates at which they wash away
> > ,blow away, fracture and corrode.
> >
> > Not to say that craftsmen and craftswomen shouldn't hold their work to
> > high standards.
> >
> > I treasure the pots and statues that have lasted centuries.
> > I've noticed some teabowls I've had for 20 or 30 years and used often
> > are showing age in a rather beautiful manner.
> > My own body will only last one lifetime, so it's OK with me that a few
> > clay things age more quickly than I. It makes me feel like I'm holding
> > up rather well in comparison!
> > The most beautiful bread bowl I ever owned, made 25 years ago by a
> > potter named Jeannie McMennimie of Milton Freewater,Oregon , would
> > likely have outlived me by several hundred years had not some lunk come
> > along and broken it...
> >
> > c'est la vie.
> >
> > Stephani Stephenson
> > Leucadia, CA
> > Alchemie Ceramic Tile Studio
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Janet Kaiser on thu 3 aug 00
Interesting to hear Stephani's take on salt... Many
potters and clay artists have looked at me in disbelief
when I have emphasised the importance of tiles for The
International Potters' Path being impervious. Either
vitrified stoneware (preferably) or well glazed.
The salt fallout is one hundredweight per acre per year
here. That is a lot of salt! And thanks to the high
rainfall (over an inch just on Monday!) it tends to
seep into anything and everything. One earthenware tile
in The Path has already lost all the glaze after just 6
months and another (which had a hair line crack)
appears to be "dissolving" from that crack outwards,
just as I had warned the maker.
We really expect The Path to last 100-200 years
minimum. The question is, should we use tiles we
consider will not meet the test of time because the
maker was kind enough to make and send a contribution,
or should we be ruthless and only use "good" tiles?
That would save the integrity of the project, thus
protecting everyone else's work for the next
millennium. After all, we cannot expect future
generations to dig out the tiles which are failing and
replace them with later day substitutes.
It is quite a weighty conundrum...
It saddens and annoys me to have received so many tiles
which I know do not meet the specifications. Sad
because the makers have gone to a lot of time and
effort to make a contribution, which is not really of a
high enough standard. Annoyed because they have
obviously not taken the specs seriously and they
therefore let everyone else and ultimately the whole
project down.
One art college recently sent a box of tiles which were
quite honestly an insult to The International Potters'
Path. Do we smile graciously and say thank you, or do
we send them back with a "must do better" letter?
According to some recent opinions expressed, we should
not expect any of the tiles to be longlasting, as long
as they look good when we get them...
I honestly think that is a bit much! Surely all work
should be of the highest possible standard, especially
if specifically made for a millennium project ? Even
more so when working along with 5000 other potters from
around the world? Each tiny part should surely be as
good as the next? Or am I being too strict? I do
wonder.
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
Diane Mead on thu 3 aug 00
The other thing that occurs to me in this discussion is caring.
Beyond not teaching history, technique or science of the things, there are
those who actively alienate potentially good students.
There is a situation I know where people are consistently told they are
incapable of making art. This person is indeed tenured. The institution
thinks all is well in this person's courses.
Students come away feeling it is useless, even though some have talent,
desire, need to make good art.
And so maybe I am not the greatest genius of the teaching world. I cannot
know every detail of everything.
But doggone it I care about what happens to students and what they
experience and learn and take with them. To the best of my ability I'll
present them with as much as I possibly can, and do it with kindness.
Yes I am tired, but doggone it I will make time to be decently nice, (even
tho' sometimes they drive me nuts).
I will do my best in trying to teach a million different things to find out
what I can and present it as well as I can.
Why do some people in this business feel that is not their job!?
Again, thank goodness for those who do care and wish to present the material
as best they can, in situations that are often less than ideal.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Bruce Girrell on thu 3 aug 00
Janet Kaiser wrote:
>The question is, should we use tiles we
>consider will not meet the test of time because the
>maker was kind enough to make and send a contribution,
>or should we be ruthless and only use "good" tiles?
Is the path constructed in such a way that the tiles are not replaceable?
I would think that you could use the tiles and see how they hold up. If one
degrades too much, then replace it with another tile.
Bruce Girrell
in northern Michigan, psyched because we found a porcelain based body
supposedly suitable for the raku process. Throws nice. Very fine grog - no
rocks. We'll see how it holds up.
Dannon Rhudy on thu 3 aug 00
..........The question is, should we use tiles we
>consider will not meet the test of time because the
>maker was kind enough to make and send a contribution,
>or should we be ruthless and only use "good" tiles?
>That would save the integrity of the project, thus
>protecting everyone else's work for the next
>millennium. After all, we cannot expect future
>generations to dig out the tiles which are failing ...
It seems it would be wiser to use only the tiles that
you belive will withstand reasonable wear, tear, salt, rain,
etc. You could keep the others for another use at some
future time, a wall or such, indoors.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Diane G. Echlin on thu 3 aug 00
Janet Kaiser wrote:
use tiles we consider will not meet the test of time because the
> maker was kind enough to make and send a contribution,
> or should we be ruthless and only use "good" tiles?
> That would save the integrity of the project, thus
> protecting everyone else's work for the next
> millennium. After all, we cannot expect future
> generations to dig out the tiles which are failing and
> replace them with later day substitutes.>
Janet, as director of the project I believe it's your ressponsibility to use only
the highest quality materials donated by the artists. It serves no good purpose to
use inferior quality materials. yes, you should graciously thank the contributers,
but also let them know that you are very strictly adhering to the standards you've
set forth in matters of durability. There is no shame in culling tiles even if
they are beautiful. Perhaps you'll find another application for the ones that
don't make the cut for the path.
> which I know do not meet the specifications. Sad
> because the makers have gone to a lot of time and
> effort to make a contribution, which is not really of a
> high enough standard. Annoyed because they have
> obviously not taken the specs seriously and they
> therefore let everyone else and ultimately the whole
> project down.>
>
Yes, it may be disappointing for those whose tile cannot be used, but you have set
out on an ambitious project that you want to last, and you should think of the
tiles as any other building material. You wouldn't use wood glue to set thhe tiles
instead of the proper tile adhesive or mortar just because it was donated, would
you? Maintain the integrity of your mission by maintaining the integrity of the
pieces that you choose to place in the path!
>
> One art college recently sent a box of tiles which were
> quite honestly an insult to The International Potters'
> Path. Do we smile graciously and say thank you, or do
> we send them back with a "must do better" letter?
> According to some recent opinions expressed, we should
> not expect any of the tiles to be longlasting, as long
> as they look good when we get them...
Perhaps the gracious thank you and an explanation of why the tiles can't be used.
If this is from a college, what better than to take the opportunity to EDUCATE
these students about standards in the real world on real projects. Regardless of
the reception of your critique, whether they are grateful or bitter for your
comments, don't let the opportunity slip by.
> Each tiny part should surely be as
> good as the next? Or am I being too strict? I do
> wonder.
It's not too strict to set a standard and stick to it. You, and the potter's path,
will be better for it. Stick to your guns!
respectfully,
Diane in Connecticut, who hasn't donated a tile for fear it might be inferior
quality.
Julie Ryan on thu 3 aug 00
Janet,
This is a project of the Chapel of Art, right? And you said that you were
very specific about the standards of the tiles to be included. You are the
leader of a collaborative project and as such, I think it is your
responsibility to include pieces that will ensure the long-term success of
the project. If you feel that some of the tiles you receive won't last,
don't use them. If you can, return them to the artist with an explanation,
or as Dannon suggested, use them somewhere else. Sounds like a really neat
project. When I come to the COA in 15 years with my kids, I'd sure hate to
stub my toe on a hole where a tile used to be. :8) Good luck.
Janet Kaiser wrote:
>The question is, should we use tiles we
>consider will not meet the test of time because the
>maker was kind enough to make and send a contribution,
>or should we be ruthless and only use "good" tiles?
Julie Ryan
in Dallas, Texas where it is expected to reach 100 degrees today - yikes
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Gayle Bair on thu 3 aug 00
Diane,
I have seen what you are experiencing with the
person who is tenured and turning people off to
the arts and their abilities.
Sadly it is fairly common.
I'll bet this person's own ability
is sorely lacking.
Don't' waste your time banging your head
against the wall thinking you can change
this person. The best you can do is expose
him/her incompetence and hope they retire
or transfer.
There is some justice in the world.
I did see just such a person as you described
passed over for a prestigious position. He
thought he snowed everyone.... in actuality
he snowed only himself.
You sound burnt out. Take some time to
focus on yourself. Put some "fun" back into your
life. Ignore the bad teachers, they drain too
much energy and that is their goal.
Focus on your students and you will win in the end!
Gayle Bair-Bainbridge Island
Snip>
Beyond not teaching history, technique or science of the things, there are
those who actively alienate potentially good students.
Richard Jeffery on thu 3 aug 00
> >I honestly think that is a bit much! Surely all work
> >should be of the highest possible standard, especially
> >if specifically made for a millennium project ? Even
> >more so when working along with 5000 other potters from
> >around the world? Each tiny part should surely be as
> >good as the next? Or am I being too strict? I do
> >wonder.
> >
Go for quality , Janet. As for the art college, a response pointing out
deficiencies should be part of their learning experience - if you can
shoulder that responsibility.
TexasMudWoman@AOL.COM on fri 4 aug 00
the decaying of the pot has no bearing on its quality. it is what it
is.
maybe it is an object lesson in non-attachment, and of the impermanance of
the stuff that makes up the world. At one time the Grand Canyon was a level
plain...
the decaying indicates the pot is a living thing, not a static object frozen
forever in time. I think that is pretty cool.
This is so true. Thanks NAP...excellent thoughts!!!
Vicki Hardin
iloveclay.com
Russel Fouts on fri 4 aug 00
Janet,
>> It saddens and annoys me to have received so many tiles which I know do
not meet the specifications. Sad
because the makers have gone to a lot of time and effort to make a
contribution, which is not really of a high enough standard. Annoyed because
they have obviously not taken the specs seriously and they therefore let
everyone else and ultimately the whole project down. <<
I don't know how the path is positioned in relationship to the Chapel of
Art, but maybe you could expand the path onto the walls of the Chapel and
have an indoor virtual path. It would be a way to allow more to contribute.
I only work in earthenware and my terra-sig surface is pretty soft compared
to a glaze which is why I've never sent a tile to the path.
>> After all, we cannot expect future generations to dig out the tiles which
are failing and replace them with later day substitutes. <<
I would expect that some maintenance would be required on the potter's path
as on all paths.
Russel
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat
Diane G. Echlin on fri 4 aug 00
>
Janet sez:
> Now this touches on a really delicate issue... It was
> the ART department. I have the feeling that the tutor
> made no effort to communicate the importance of working
> to specifications. The key words here are "the real
> world on real projects"...
>
> Now how can I put this delicately and nicely? How
> about: ART lecturers appear to be living in another
> world.
>
> Or to be absolutely blunt (yes, I think I dare amongst
> friends :-) ART lecturers could not give a monkey's
> uncle whether the materials and techniques used are
> appropriate or not.
This ties in with mel's post from a couple days ago. And truthfully, I am realy
speaking out of my neck, having never attended art school, having never received a
degree in the arts, and only having taught 1 group of exchange students from spain
as part of a cultural enrichment program, as well as my daughter and niece. So as
you see, I have no credentials, but I have opinions that I am grateful Mel will
(may) let me share.
If I thought for one moment I could attend the local state college and get a
meaningful degree in pottery that focussed on skill and technique and craft, I
would do it in a minute. I know that an advanced degree would allow me to teach,
which is what I would really really really like to do. But I just can't stand the
thought of being in an atmosphere where the craftmanship aspect of our art is
derided, where functional pottery is considered second class and artless, and
technique is not even considered. I've gone to some of these college exhibitions
and seen what passes for art, and frankly, my dog could do better on her evening
walk. It makes me crazy to see it. What on earth are these students learning? I
have the same reaction when I see young adults who can't spell (or use a spell
checker) or string three words together into a coherent sentence, yet they have a
BA in English.
In some respects, I agree that art should be fun, but like any endeavor, it takes
work and commitment to gain skill, and sometimes that just isn't fun. Have we as a
society become so entrenched in the idea that hard work, and sometimes failure, is
so detrimental to a person's self esteem that we have removed all possibility of
struggle and failure from the schools and colleges? Why has this happened? And
why is it that educators like Mel, and I'm sure others on this list as well as off,
seem to be in the minority? Why do we stand for such a lack of standards? When
did "do your best" turn into "do whatever, it'll be okay"?
Whew, sorry for the rant. I guess this is a hot button for me, as I struggle to
achieve the standards I have set for myself, even as my studio mates say it's "good
enough" so long as the handle stays on until the customer gets the piece home. I
guess Integrity is paramount to me, and Janet, I hope and pray you choose to
maintain the structural integrity of the path! And what a great metaphor the Path
is!
Respectfully submitted,
Di in Connecticut
KLeSueur@AOL.COM on fri 4 aug 00
In a message dated 8/4/00 10:48:37 AM, dechlin@CONNIX.COM writes:
<< But I just can't stand the
thought of being in an atmosphere where the craftmanship aspect of our art is
derided, where functional pottery is considered second class and artless, and
technique is not even considered. I've gone to some of these college
exhibitions
and seen what passes for art, and frankly, my dog could do better on her
evening
walk. It makes me crazy to see it. What on earth are these students
learning? >>
When I walk through some of the top art fairs and see the "cutting edge" work
displayed I often feel as if I'm looking at a future exhibit of bad art. Ten
or fifteen years from now this "art" will have failed the test of time. The
"art patrons" who bought it will recognize that it has no lasting value and
will donate it to their area art museum and take a deduction from their
taxes. The museum will put it on display for awhile and then will properly
relegate it to a store room out of sight.
If the design concepts and execution are not quality, new and different will
not translate into excellence in the long run.
Kathi LeSueur
Ann Arbor, MI
Gayle Bair on fri 4 aug 00
Janet,
I think you should send copies of this
Clayart thread to the "educator".
Messages from the real world.
Gayle Bair-getting ready for a show
in the real world
Snip>
So do I attempt to educate the educator? The students
were possibly totally ignorant of what is being
attempted. Who knows?
James Bledsoe on fri 4 aug 00
The state of the word is in flux. we need to understand our time in order
to get a fix on the horizon. If one goes to the Super Market they are
confronted with Millions of perfect Man Made objects. No body can feel
anything but inferior when they go home and try to execute and object of
craft when placed against such standards. The intimidation of mass
production is a primary generator of the conceptual embrace in current
advanced art curriculums. My experience is that skills are never derided
and that if one is willing to go towards the conversation that is taking
place in the Art World that their skills will sever them well. Also my
Art World experience has shown me that the Artist that make an impact rarely
go to Art School. Mattie was a lawyer. Gogaun an accountant. If you want
to make Art get an education in Philosophy or History or Religion or Science
that way after you have gotten your chops down you will have something to
say
Jim
>
Janet sez:
> Now this touches on a really delicate issue... It was
> the ART department. I have the feeling that the tutor
> made no effort to communicate the importance of working
> to specifications. The key words here are "the real
> world on real projects"...
>
> Now how can I put this delicately and nicely? How
> about: ART lecturers appear to be living in another
> world.
>
> Or to be absolutely blunt (yes, I think I dare amongst
> friends :-) ART lecturers could not give a monkey's
> uncle whether the materials and techniques used are
> appropriate or not.
This ties in with mel's post from a couple days ago. And truthfully, I am
realy
speaking out of my neck, having never attended art school, having never
received a
degree in the arts, and only having taught 1 group of exchange students from
spain
as part of a cultural enrichment program, as well as my daughter and niece.
So as
you see, I have no credentials, but I have opinions that I am grateful Mel
will
(may) let me share.
If I thought for one moment I could attend the local state college and get a
meaningful degree in pottery that focussed on skill and technique and craft,
I
would do it in a minute. I know that an advanced degree would allow me to
teach,
which is what I would really really really like to do. But I just can't
stand the
thought of being in an atmosphere where the craftmanship aspect of our art
is
derided, where functional pottery is considered second class and artless,
and
technique is not even considered. I've gone to some of these college
exhibitions
and seen what passes for art, and frankly, my dog could do better on her
evening
walk. It makes me crazy to see it. What on earth are these students
learning? I
have the same reaction when I see young adults who can't spell (or use a
spell
checker) or string three words together into a coherent sentence, yet they
have a
BA in English.
In some respects, I agree that art should be fun, but like any endeavor, it
takes
work and commitment to gain skill, and sometimes that just isn't fun. Have
we as a
society become so entrenched in the idea that hard work, and sometimes
failure, is
so detrimental to a person's self esteem that we have removed all
possibility of
struggle and failure from the schools and colleges? Why has this happened?
And
why is it that educators like Mel, and I'm sure others on this list as well
as off,
seem to be in the minority? Why do we stand for such a lack of standards?
When
did "do your best" turn into "do whatever, it'll be okay"?
Whew, sorry for the rant. I guess this is a hot button for me, as I
struggle to
achieve the standards I have set for myself, even as my studio mates say
it's "good
enough" so long as the handle stays on until the customer gets the piece
home. I
guess Integrity is paramount to me, and Janet, I hope and pray you choose to
maintain the structural integrity of the path! And what a great metaphor
the Path
is!
Respectfully submitted,
Di in Connecticut
Janet Kaiser on fri 4 aug 00
Dear Bruce
No, tiles in The Path are definitely not replaceable.
Eckhard is German and true to his training, everything
he does is made to last forever. This is the man who
dug foundations twice the depth they needed to be, hand
mixed the final four inches of scree to put on top of
the layered plastic, pebble, concrete base and used the
most expensive cement adhesive available.
So it would take an atomic bomb to lift any one tile no
matter how much it has crumbled! There would be no way
to extract one tile without hurting the other four next
to it.
And to be absolutely honest... It would break his heart
to start chipping away at parts of The Path after
working so hard to lay them in the first place. Quite
understandable after spending several weeks out in all
weathers during the winter getting the job done. It was
also not easy with so many different thickness and
sizes. 10 x 10 x 1 cm or 4 x 4 x 1/2 inches is
apparently very difficult to achieve! But that is
another tale of woe!
Having used top quality materials and a lot of TLC the
more I think about it, I believe it would be a damned
shame if The Path was spoiled by the few among the very
makers it is there to honour!
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Girrell
> Is the path constructed in such a way that the tiles
are not replaceable?
>
> I would think that you could use the tiles and see
how they hold up. If one
> degrades too much, then replace it with another tile.
>
> Bruce Girrell
Janet Kaiser on fri 4 aug 00
Dear Dannon
Thanks for your suggestion. Eckhard and I discussed it
earlier this year. Apart from the odd
"self-destructive" tile (and despite my moan they truly
are in the minority!) so many tiles are also really
smooth and slippery... They would be downright
dangerous to walk on. Others are too bumpy and could
trip people up. Although a great many can go around the
edges where no one will really walk, we are gradually
getting more edging tiles than path tiles!
So, we had the idea of building plinths which could be
faced with these "dangerous" and unsuitable tiles. Then
the plinths could either be used as seats or as bases
for sculptures...
We won't know for sure until at least another 1000-2000
tiles arrive. Then the process of sorting can take
place.
Ah, dear... Whose bright idea was this? :-)
Regards to Paris, Texas from a gloomy cool Wales
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Dannon Rhudy
> ..........The question is, should we use tiles we
> >consider will not meet the test of time because the
> >maker was kind enough to make and send a
contribution,
> >or should we be ruthless and only use "good" tiles?
> >That would save the integrity of the project, thus
> >protecting everyone else's work for the next
> >millennium. After all, we cannot expect future
> >generations to dig out the tiles which are failing
...
>
> It seems it would be wiser to use only the tiles that
> you belive will withstand reasonable wear, tear,
salt, rain,
> etc. You could keep the others for another use at
some
> future time, a wall or such, indoors.
>
> regards
>
> Dannon Rhudy
Janet Kaiser on fri 4 aug 00
Dear Diane,
Thanks for your words of wisdom. As you have gathered,
I am extremely torn on this issue. Gratitude to those
makers who have made a contribution, but tempered by
disappointment with the few (and it is the minority)
who have just not thought it through...
> If this is from a college, what better than to take
the opportunity to EDUCATE these students about
standards in the real world on real projects.
Now this touches on a really delicate issue... It was
the ART department. I have the feeling that the tutor
made no effort to communicate the importance of working
to specifications. The key words here are "the real
world on real projects"...
Now how can I put this delicately and nicely? How
about: ART lecturers appear to be living in another
world.
Or to be absolutely blunt (yes, I think I dare amongst
friends :-) ART lecturers could not give a monkey's
uncle whether the materials and techniques used are
appropriate or not. They have a completely different
agenda. We should be surprised that bits of iron or
other materials had not been stuck into the tiles as
part of the experiment. It is not the making which was
important, but the participation.
I should perhaps add that a message arrived with this
box of tiles which informed us of how privileged we
were to be getting these wonderful tiles made by his
degree students and they would expect personal letters
of thanks to each individual so they could add The Path
to their CVs!
Yes, sir! In the absence of any names or even the
address of the college when we unpacked the box, I
wonder if some kind person had not intervened?
So do I attempt to educate the educator? The students
were possibly totally ignorant of what is being
attempted. Who knows?
But before you think I am being dismissive of all
attempts, let me assure everyone that we appreciate a
great many "sub-standard" tiles. There are those made
by a class of blind and visually impaired people. A
consignment from a prison in the US are on their way...
Those folk put a lot of effort and enthusiasm into
making a contribution. That will truly be honoured.
Just as the tiles from a school in Zimbabwe are amongst
"the best" not for their technical skills, but for the
joy that shines out of the designs.
What bugs me, are those people who should know better,
but don't! So please do not bow out of making a tile
because you believe it will not make the grade or be in
any way inferior! As long as it is sturdy and
waterproof it will become a part of The Path. Promise!
Regards
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane G. Echlin
> Janet Kaiser wrote:
> minimum. The question is, should we
> use tiles we consider will not meet the test of time
because the
>
> > maker was kind enough to make and send a
contribution,
> > or should we be ruthless and only use "good" tiles?
> > That would save the integrity of the project, thus
> > protecting everyone else's work for the next
> > millennium. After all, we cannot expect future
> > generations to dig out the tiles which are failing
and
> > replace them with later day substitutes.>
>
> Janet, as director of the project I believe it's your
ressponsibility to use only
> the highest quality materials donated by the artists.
It serves no good purpose to
> use inferior quality materials. yes, you should
graciously thank the contributers,
> but also let them know that you are very strictly
adhering to the standards you've
> set forth in matters of durability. There is no
shame in culling tiles even if
> they are beautiful. Perhaps you'll find another
application for the ones that
> don't make the cut for the path.
>
> tiles
>
> > which I know do not meet the specifications. Sad
> > because the makers have gone to a lot of time and
> > effort to make a contribution, which is not really
of a
> > high enough standard. Annoyed because they have
> > obviously not taken the specs seriously and they
> > therefore let everyone else and ultimately the
whole
> > project down.>
> >
>
> Yes, it may be disappointing for those whose tile
cannot be used, but you have set
> out on an ambitious project that you want to last,
and you should think of the
> tiles as any other building material. You wouldn't
use wood glue to set thhe tiles
> instead of the proper tile adhesive or mortar just
because it was donated, would
> you? Maintain the integrity of your mission by
maintaining the integrity of the
> pieces that you choose to place in the path!
>
> >
> > One art college recently sent a box of tiles which
were
> > quite honestly an insult to The International
Potters'
> > Path. Do we smile graciously and say thank you, or
do
> > we send them back with a "must do better" letter?
> > According to some recent opinions expressed, we
should
> > not expect any of the tiles to be longlasting, as
long
> > as they look good when we get them...
>
> Perhaps the gracious thank you and an explanation of
why the tiles can't be used.
> If this is from a college, what better than to take
the opportunity to EDUCATE
> these students about standards in the real world on
real projects. Regardless of
> the reception of your critique, whether they are
grateful or bitter for your
> comments, don't let the opportunity slip by.
>
> > Each tiny part should surely be as
> > good as the next? Or am I being too strict? I do
> > wonder.
>
> It's not too strict to set a standard and stick to
it. You, and the potter's path,
> will be better for it. Stick to your guns!
>
> respectfully,
> Diane in Connecticut, who hasn't donated a tile for
fear it might be inferior
> quality.
Tom Wirt/Betsy Price on sat 5 aug 00
> When I walk through some of the top art fairs and see the "cutting
edge" work
> displayed I often feel as if I'm looking at a future exhibit of bad
art. Ten
> or fifteen years from now this "art" will have failed the test of
time. The
> "art patrons" who bought it will recognize that it has no lasting
value and
Kathi,
According to the owner of one of the shops we sell to, who sells
mostly to the Gen X'ers and Y'ers, what is being bought is, in their
minds, "disposable art" . It's fun, funky, I'll live with it a year
or two and then sell it, give it away or throw it out. When we first
got the word that a piece of ours was seen at a garage sale, it
brought certain things into focus. A humbling experience. (Not that
some of that earlier work shouldn't have been in a garage sale.)
Tom Wirt
Gail Dapogny on tue 8 aug 00
I've walked through two notable art displays recently: one, the Ann Arbor
Street Art Fair (the Original) and second, the White House Contemporary
Craft Collection, also in Ann Arbor in the Univ of Michigan Art Museum.
Both contained the proverbial "cutting edge" work, both included big names
as exhibitors, and both were, in my book, stunning. The work managed to be
accessible, technically impeccable, and much of it gorgeous. The work that
seemed alien to me did not seem gimmicky; instead it was fascinating and
exciting. I'd find it hard to believe that this stuff will be dismissed in
a decade.
----
Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu
www.silverhawk.com/ex99/dapogny
| |
|
