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teaching/signing/conceptual language

updated tue 25 jan 00

 

Dannon Rhudy on thu 20 jan 00


>........Dear Dannon; That book I mentioned by Frank Wilson called,"The
Hand", has wonderful stories from magicians turned mathematicians,
magicians turned surgeons, all seemed to have early
'real work' with the hands which
>patterned their brains for later learning. I wonder if any.......
.....raised as an ASL 'signer',..... could report their
>experience in using the wheel? ............

It would indeed be most interesting. Because signing is a conceptual
language, those who ONLY sign from birth learn differently, and have
advantages in "reading" body language, difficulties in areas requiring
abstract thought, because of the nature of language. This is not from
my own experience - I only took a couple of classes in signing a few years
ago, and the instructor gave us all kinds of information regarding the
pluses and minuses of learning without the use of " words"
in the sense that hearing persons experience, and using only
physical indications of meanings. He'd signed from infancy, as
his parents were signers. But he could also hear, which they could
not. I was sorry to move to a place where signing classes were
not available.

Learning to sign has advantages for hearing persons, too, but it is
a surprisingly difficult language to acquire fluency in,
for adults, once past the basics of alphabet and phrase.
One of the more interesting things
the instructor told us was that it is nearly impossible to get away with
a lie, signing. Apparently, body language tells on you.

regards

Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com

Hank Murrow on fri 21 jan 00

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>>........Dear Dannon; That book I mentioned by Frank Wilson called,"The
>Hand", has wonderful stories from magicians turned mathematicians,
>magicians turned surgeons, all seemed to have early
>'real work' with the hands which
>>patterned their brains for later learning. I wonder if any.......
>.....raised as an ASL 'signer',..... could report their
>>experience in using the wheel? ............
>
>It would indeed be most interesting. Because signing is a conceptual
>language, those who ONLY sign from birth learn differently, and have
>advantages in "reading" body language, difficulties in areas requiring
>abstract thought, because of the nature of language. This is not from
>my own experience - I only took a couple of classes in signing a few years
>ago, and the instructor gave us all kinds of information regarding the
>pluses and minuses of learning without the use of " words"
>in the sense that hearing persons experience, and using only
>physical indications of meanings. He'd signed from infancy, as
>his parents were signers. But he could also hear, which they could
>not. I was sorry to move to a place where signing classes were
>not available.
>
>Learning to sign has advantages for hearing persons, too, but it is
>a surprisingly difficult language to acquire fluency in,
>for adults, once past the basics of alphabet and phrase.
> One of the more interesting things
>the instructor told us was that it is nearly impossible to get away with
>a lie, signing. Apparently, body language tells on you.
>regards
>Dannon Rhudy
>potter@koyote.com

Dear Dannon; Thanks for the great post! I love the part about signers not
being able to lie. Maybe if a signer reverts to speaking it's an indication
of probable verity? I got some great responses privately, including this
one:

"Interesting you mentioned signing. My sister in law taught her
10 month old daughter to sign ( she is not deaf) . Found it was a
wonderful way to communicate with a child prior to learning speech. It was
incredible to watch her sign she was done eating or wanted some
yogurt....It also cut down considerably on the whining and crying when her
mom would say what did she want and the child signed back, she got her
yogurt or whatever and all was well. Once she started to speak she stopped
signing but it will be interesting to see if she becomes more hands on
later as she grows."

Hank in Eugene, Thanking Clayarters for their contributions on this thread!












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ferenc jakab on sat 22 jan 00

I have a degree with majors in linguistics. Signing is a language and unless
practiced fairly regularly the child will forget. Children also reject
languages that they see as too hard or irrelevant to their needs. This is
often a frustration to migrant parents, and the problem becomes worse with
the second generation migrant child. Sorry slightly off topic but I had to
put in my two bob's worth.
Feri

martin howard on mon 24 jan 00

Because I am now hard of hearing, I did a year's course in BSL, British Sign
Language. It was the only exam which I have ever failed, other than the
driving test :-)

It certainly needs a lot of practice time, just like throwing on a wheel,
but it can be very easily lost. Mine, after less than a year, has gone,
almost completely. I was very surprised at that.

However, for children who want to learn languages, there is an answer,
Esperanto. It is easy to learn, almost mathematical in its logic, but can
express the most detailed thought forms. It also stays with the student and
does not disappear with the passing of time. It is then also used as a basis
for understanding the formation of other languages, so that these other
languages can be learned in a fraction of the time.

Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road
Great Saling
BRAINTREE
Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
www.webbscottage.co.uk Should be ready for 2000 :-) or 2001