David Hendley on thu 16 dec 99
I think we have a first here.
For the first time in the history of Clayart, I have to agree
with both Minnesota Mel and Sour Cherry Tony.
Getting a glaze recipe from someone is like the first step
in a marathon: it's a start, but the tough work is still ahead
of you.
That's why you have to pick a few things, and work with them long
term - for years, not until the next Ceramics Monthly comes out.
What makes a glaze interesting is its interaction with your
clay, other glazes, and your kiln. And the way you use it.
I have no secrets. Although I appreciate the courtesy, I always
thought it was odd that people would ask if they could take
a photo of a pot. Then I realized that there are people out
there zealously guarding their work, allowing no photographs
and stamping "copyright" on the bottom of each piece.
Like they are doing something that's never been done before.
If I give you a glaze recipe, all you have to do to make it
look the same is figure out how to apply it, learn how to use
it with other glazes, find an appropriate claybody, and build
a wood kiln and learn how to fire it.
The result? The glaze will not look the same for you as for me,
but hopefully you will spend the time developing it so it will
work for you with your variables and your process.
Then the glaze will no longer be mine. It will be yours.
--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: clennell
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 8:47 AM
Subject: Orange you glad
| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
| Gotta agree with Minnesota Mel on the Mels orange post. When someone
gives
| you a glaze formula they haven't given you much. There are all the other
| variables that they left out. thickness, clay body, application, brush,
| dip, spray, firing, reduction ( oh really tell me more) when, how long,
| soak??/ periods of oxidation, heavy, moderate light at the end. What
about
| cooling???? Placement in kiln. You get my point.
| I tried Crawdads black. Looked dreadful on my stuff. Like Minnesota I
have
| glazes that suit me better. If I had of loved the black I'd have it
working
| for me now some 5 years later. didn't love it enough to stick with it.
| A good glaze is like Joyce in Mojaves love of me. It ain't for everyone.
| There is something sinful or luring that keeps us interested in each
other.
| Yes, that's it! It is like a single malt whiskey. Not for the first time
| drinker. An acquired taste for the ones that traveled the gravel road of
| life.
| Here's betting that there is no paved road leading to Joyces house.
| cheers,
| tony
| Orange you glad I'm not a banana.
|
| Tony and Sheila Clennell
| Sour Cherry Pottery
| 4545 King St.
| Beamsville, On. L0R 1B1
|
| http://www.sourcherrypottery.com
| e-mail:clennell@bestnet.org
| 905-563-9382
| fax 905-563-9383
|
----- Original Message -----
From: mel jacobson
To:
Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 4:07 PM
Subject: mel's orange
| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
| well, from the beaten horses mouth:
| that orange was developed over many years to be
| a decorative element for my pots.
| i almost never dip an entire pot in it...too much.
| i use big brushes, put layers of orange and red on shino
| and temmoku. use a great deal of wax.
| it variegates, moves into the other glazes.
| it is made for a painter that glazes pots.
|
| i love certain glazes for how they inter/act with others.
| create rich surfaces. this one almost makes crystals.
|
| base glazes carry these glazes as canvas'. very few glazes, in my
opinion
| are meant to be bases.
|
| it took kurt almost two years to find the proper base glaze for his work.
| then he uses salts to decorate.
|
| in many ways, rhodes 32 has been that for me.
| use the base.
| add colors to small buckets of it....use it under and over.
| layers.
|
| that is why i am always so concerned when new glazes come
| along..folks just take them..slather them all over pots.
| don't know what their intention was.
|
| that is the purpose of my `not too big kiln`....remember,
| i am just the opposite of tom wirt. i am a teacher and
| a researcher....kurt and i for years have done things, not
| just to sell, but as teachers to build and share ideas.
| tom makes his living, like tony, david h....
| they cannot afford to just...`hey, man, just do it.`.
| i can. i can afford to lose 40 pots.
| what the hell, just throw them out...or give the away.
| as has been stated. i have a good pension, and have insurance.
| all is paid for....it is my job to do research and have a good time.
|
|
| so, in saying that.
| try to find out why a glaze was made, what is the purpose.
| how can you use it in your work.
|
| it has taken me three years to figure out just the basics of shino.
| i am finally getting the feel of the glaze.
| thickness, what to use with it.
| drying time.
| how to use the soda ash with it.
| all of that...and have lost hundreds of pots.
| but, now, almost have what i like.
|
| and i bet tony would say the same thing....almost what he likes.
| just like merrie boerner's post....about pleasing oneself...that is
| always the answer....i cannot be anyone but me, they have to
| be my pots...every time i have tried to make things to sell, well they
don't.
| i make my shit, when i love it, well ,then it goes into a sale.
| and sells. my ideas do not come from cm. (cm is for me to see what others
| are doing, and in some cases get pissed off.) they come from me.
| it is called research, and if you do not give it time, and more time
| and lost pots, well then you have not done your job.
|
| taking other peoples glazes, then trying to make them yours...well, hard.
| very hard.
| as funny as this sounds....well, i like my tenmmoku better than ron roy's.
| and his is wonderful, but, does not belong on my pots...i have the glaze
| that works for me...and use it.
| took me 10 years to find that one, and get it to work.
|
| almost my entire theory of glaze is based on.....how will it interact with
| what i have and use now...it is the interaction that is important.
|
| that is why i give all of my ideas and recipes away.
| actually they don't fit that many people anyway.
| and if you have them, well, you have to make them your own.
| if that occurs, well, good on you. then they become you, not me.
| mel.mn
|
| http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
| from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Tetsuya Shimano on fri 17 dec 99
i undersand that lots of people spend lots of time for glaze developing. as
i told everyone, i'm a "beginner potter" and i just wanna try little bit of
everything. to tell the truth, i didn't expect that mel is talking bout this
"copy right" stuff. i was just expecting more like a "technical advice" how
i can get nice orange like other poeple suggested....and i felt so bad coz
the story was going to the wrong way.
when i read mel's message, i felt like how stupid i'm. i've been working on
this glaze for 3 months and never ever got the right orange... then, he told
me that mel's orange is for decoration, surposely. however, how many people
know bout that? maybe, a few poeple... kate murray, she is a potter in fl
and she is using it and she got a beautiful orange pitcher, anyway, she
didn't mention that. i was so frustlated coz i'm quiting pottery the end of
this month. i just finished the last throwing yesterday. i'm going back to
japan. so, i won't never ever make mel's orange again.
one of my japanese potter friends, he tried thousands of glazes for a year.
he made 10 -15 test glazes everyday, looking at books, his friends' recipes,
etc. then, he decided not to use any glazes at all and just have natural ash
glazes. if i had lots of money, i could try to develop my own glazes and
make lots of test glazes everyday...like him. the reality is how many people
can afford the time and money.
speaking of "copy right," i think glazes are exceptional. i mean, still
people call "someone's shino," "someone's red," "someone's tenmoku, " etc and
that's fine to me. however, when u apply someone's glaze on your pot, it
will be personalized. most poeple title their work like "pitcher" or they
give a discription like,"pitcher with shino glaze outside and orange glaze
inside, fired at cone 10 reduction." i've rarely seen a discription like
"pitcher with jeff's shino outside and mel's orange inside fired at cone 10
reduction" except magazine articles with glaze recipes. at the point, "copy
right" is gone. i don't think i'm gonna ask jeff and mel to sign on my pots
for glaze "copy right."
what bout commercial glazes? i think some people are using those commercial
glazes and most of them don't the recipes. do u think the pots with
commercial glazes belong to u? i think the pots belong to me coz that's my
artistic expression with using commercial glazes.
i think it's just a difference how u feel bout other poeple's glazes. poeple
who formulate glazes themselves really love their own glazes and personalize
em more than the other people coz they spend lots of times and money to
formulate em. i admire those poeple, but to me, glazes are parts of elements
of my entire work and most parts are my work so.......
anyway, most subscribors here are "independent" potters and probably, they
agree with mel and tony. i just wanna let u know some poeple have slightly
different thoughts bout using other poeples' glazes. that's all.
t
Tasha Olive on fri 17 dec 99
Thank you, David, for the spirit of generosity denoted in your post. I truly
believe that if you give freely with no worry for those who may not have the
artistic foresight to do any thing at the moment other than to try to copy
someone exactly( their lack of artistic foresight being that they don't know
yet how hard that will be and that they will probably eventually come up
with a style of their own during this imitation), that our own creative
processes become richer. No worry and strife balling up creative juices
here. Tasha
-----Original Message-----
From: David Hendley
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Thursday, December 16, 1999 3:15 PM
Subject: Other people's glazes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I think we have a first here.
>For the first time in the history of Clayart, I have to agree
>with both Minnesota Mel and Sour Cherry Tony.
>Getting a glaze recipe from someone is like the first step
>in a marathon: it's a start, but the tough work is still ahead
>of you.
>That's why you have to pick a few things, and work with them long
>term - for years, not until the next Ceramics Monthly comes out.
>What makes a glaze interesting is its interaction with your
>clay, other glazes, and your kiln. And the way you use it.
>
>I have no secrets. Although I appreciate the courtesy, I always
>thought it was odd that people would ask if they could take
>a photo of a pot. Then I realized that there are people out
>there zealously guarding their work, allowing no photographs
>and stamping "copyright" on the bottom of each piece.
>Like they are doing something that's never been done before.
>
>If I give you a glaze recipe, all you have to do to make it
>look the same is figure out how to apply it, learn how to use
>it with other glazes, find an appropriate claybody, and build
>a wood kiln and learn how to fire it.
>The result? The glaze will not look the same for you as for me,
>but hopefully you will spend the time developing it so it will
>work for you with your variables and your process.
>Then the glaze will no longer be mine. It will be yours.
>
>--
>David Hendley
>Maydelle, Texas
>hendley@tyler.net
>http://www.farmpots.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: clennell
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 8:47 AM
>Subject: Orange you glad
>
>
>| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>| Gotta agree with Minnesota Mel on the Mels orange post. When someone
>gives
>| you a glaze formula they haven't given you much. There are all the other
>| variables that they left out. thickness, clay body, application, brush,
>| dip, spray, firing, reduction ( oh really tell me more) when, how long,
>| soak??/ periods of oxidation, heavy, moderate light at the end. What
>about
>| cooling???? Placement in kiln. You get my point.
>| I tried Crawdads black. Looked dreadful on my stuff. Like Minnesota I
>have
>| glazes that suit me better. If I had of loved the black I'd have it
>working
>| for me now some 5 years later. didn't love it enough to stick with it.
>| A good glaze is like Joyce in Mojaves love of me. It ain't for everyone.
>| There is something sinful or luring that keeps us interested in each
>other.
>| Yes, that's it! It is like a single malt whiskey. Not for the first time
>| drinker. An acquired taste for the ones that traveled the gravel road of
>| life.
>| Here's betting that there is no paved road leading to Joyces house.
>| cheers,
>| tony
>| Orange you glad I'm not a banana.
>|
>| Tony and Sheila Clennell
>| Sour Cherry Pottery
>| 4545 King St.
>| Beamsville, On. L0R 1B1
>|
>| http://www.sourcherrypottery.com
>| e-mail:clennell@bestnet.org
>| 905-563-9382
>| fax 905-563-9383
>|
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: mel jacobson
>To:
>Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 4:07 PM
>Subject: mel's orange
>
>
>| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>| well, from the beaten horses mouth:
>| that orange was developed over many years to be
>| a decorative element for my pots.
>| i almost never dip an entire pot in it...too much.
>| i use big brushes, put layers of orange and red on shino
>| and temmoku. use a great deal of wax.
>| it variegates, moves into the other glazes.
>| it is made for a painter that glazes pots.
>|
>| i love certain glazes for how they inter/act with others.
>| create rich surfaces. this one almost makes crystals.
>|
>| base glazes carry these glazes as canvas'. very few glazes, in my
>opinion
>| are meant to be bases.
>|
>| it took kurt almost two years to find the proper base glaze for his work.
>| then he uses salts to decorate.
>|
>| in many ways, rhodes 32 has been that for me.
>| use the base.
>| add colors to small buckets of it....use it under and over.
>| layers.
>|
>| that is why i am always so concerned when new glazes come
>| along..folks just take them..slather them all over pots.
>| don't know what their intention was.
>|
>| that is the purpose of my `not too big kiln`....remember,
>| i am just the opposite of tom wirt. i am a teacher and
>| a researcher....kurt and i for years have done things, not
>| just to sell, but as teachers to build and share ideas.
>| tom makes his living, like tony, david h....
>| they cannot afford to just...`hey, man, just do it.`.
>| i can. i can afford to lose 40 pots.
>| what the hell, just throw them out...or give the away.
>| as has been stated. i have a good pension, and have insurance.
>| all is paid for....it is my job to do research and have a good time.
>|
>|
>| so, in saying that.
>| try to find out why a glaze was made, what is the purpose.
>| how can you use it in your work.
>|
>| it has taken me three years to figure out just the basics of shino.
>| i am finally getting the feel of the glaze.
>| thickness, what to use with it.
>| drying time.
>| how to use the soda ash with it.
>| all of that...and have lost hundreds of pots.
>| but, now, almost have what i like.
>|
>| and i bet tony would say the same thing....almost what he likes.
>| just like merrie boerner's post....about pleasing oneself...that is
>| always the answer....i cannot be anyone but me, they have to
>| be my pots...every time i have tried to make things to sell, well they
>don't.
>| i make my shit, when i love it, well ,then it goes into a sale.
>| and sells. my ideas do not come from cm. (cm is for me to see what others
>| are doing, and in some cases get pissed off.) they come from me.
>| it is called research, and if you do not give it time, and more time
>| and lost pots, well then you have not done your job.
>|
>| taking other peoples glazes, then trying to make them yours...well, hard.
>| very hard.
>| as funny as this sounds....well, i like my tenmmoku better than ron
roy's.
>| and his is wonderful, but, does not belong on my pots...i have the glaze
>| that works for me...and use it.
>| took me 10 years to find that one, and get it to work.
>|
>| almost my entire theory of glaze is based on.....how will it interact
with
>| what i have and use now...it is the interaction that is important.
>|
>| that is why i give all of my ideas and recipes away.
>| actually they don't fit that many people anyway.
>| and if you have them, well, you have to make them your own.
>| if that occurs, well, good on you. then they become you, not me.
>| mel.mn
>|
>| http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>| from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
>
Ray Aldridge on sat 18 dec 99
At 04:58 PM 12/17/99 EST, you wrote:
(snip)
>i think it's just a difference how u feel bout other poeple's glazes. poeple
>who formulate glazes themselves really love their own glazes and personalize
>em more than the other people coz they spend lots of times and money to
>formulate em. i admire those poeple, but to me, glazes are parts of elements
>of my entire work and most parts are my work so.......
>
>anyway, most subscribors here are "independent" potters and probably, they
>agree with mel and tony. i just wanna let u know some poeple have slightly
>different thoughts bout using other poeples' glazes. that's all.
>
Actually, Tetsuya, there are very few original glazes, and they were
probably mostly invented by potters long ago. 25 to 30 years ago, for
example, a bright orange C10 reduction glaze colored by iron and rutile was
very popular, and I doubt it was much different from mel's orange.
When potters develop their own glazes it doesn't mean that these glazes
were never developed before by other potters. It's a very old art form and
millions of glazes have been developed over the centuries. I have a number
of "my own" glazes, but I know that other potters are probably using very
similar glazes, since I use common ingredients, and balance my glazes
within the normal limits, for the most part. I'm sure that every glaze I
use is in use in substantially the same form in numerous other studios.
Many of them were derived from other potters' glazes in some way-- my most
popular glaze is related to a glaze Robin Hopper developed many years ago.
It's unrecognizable now, but that was the starting point.
So, in my opinion there's nothing wrong in using a glaze another potter
developed. As I've said before, the only reason for making pottery is the
pleasure the potter takes in the making and his customer takes in the
buying. A lot of us have fun developing glazes, but that doesn't
necessarily make us superior to those who haven't re-invented the horse.
(Though I think it's easier to make strongly individual pots if you do as
much of the process as you can, just like it's easier to make beautiful
pots firing fuel kilns in reduction to C10 and above. That doesn't mean
you can't make beautiful pots in electric kilns at lower temps. It's just
harder.)
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
| |
|
