Lynne Antone on thu 18 mar 99
Have been trying my hand at wine goblets lately and have run into a problem.
First I trim the cup and while it is sitting in the Grip, I attach the stem.
Both pieces are level, it seems, yet when I join them, I have a hard time
making the whole affair level. About half the time a get a wobble. Any hints
on a better way to do this or a way to correct the wobble. Seems no matter
what I try, it gets worse.
Thanks,
Lynne Antone
Olympia WA USA
Catherine Jarosz on fri 19 mar 99
Hi Lynn have you tried using a level on the stem??? I have a
small square bat 1/4 " thick and I put a small level ontop of this
and then put that on top of the stem thats ontop of the cup thats in the
giffin grip ... lol do you follow me so far??? well I center the
stem using the level and once its attached i recheck the level and
just lean it where it needs to go if its still off a bit ... works
every time ... cat
Debby Grant on fri 19 mar 99
The best way to attach a stem to a goblet is to actually throw it on
just as you would throw a knob on a casserole cover. If you do it
that way, and it does take some practice, the stem should be centered
and straight.
Good luck, Debby Grant in NH
elizabeth l gowen on fri 19 mar 99
Try throwing the stem on the trimmed cup using pretty soft clay. I've done
it right on the grip, if you have the plastic or fiberglass one and not the
older version, so it will clean up easily. Good luck
Liz Gowen
-----Original Message-----
From: Lynne Antone
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 6:14 PM
Subject: Goblets
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Have been trying my hand at wine goblets lately and have run into a
problem.
>First I trim the cup and while it is sitting in the Grip, I attach the
stem.
>Both pieces are level, it seems, yet when I join them, I have a hard time
>making the whole affair level. About half the time a get a wobble. Any
hints
>on a better way to do this or a way to correct the wobble. Seems no matter
>what I try, it gets worse.
>
>Thanks,
>Lynne Antone
>Olympia WA USA
>
Matthew Blumenthal on fri 19 mar 99
My favorite method of making a goblet is:
1. Throw the cup.
2. Before trimming the cup, throw, cut off, and put aside a thick cylinder
that will become the stem.
Note: When cutting the cylinder off the wheel, cut through the walls. Like
a hollow pipe.
3. Trim the cup bottom.
4. Score and slip the area on the bottom of the cup that you will attach
the stem to.
5. Attach the thick cylinder to the scored and slipped area.
6. throw the thick cylinder into a stem.
I find that this method allows for a smooth joining of stem and goblet with
a good line and a level foot.
At 06:13 PM 3/18/99 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Have been trying my hand at wine goblets lately and have run into a problem.
>First I trim the cup and while it is sitting in the Grip, I attach the stem.
>Both pieces are level, it seems, yet when I join them, I have a hard time
>making the whole affair level. About half the time a get a wobble. Any hints
>on a better way to do this or a way to correct the wobble. Seems no matter
>what I try, it gets worse.
>
>Thanks,
>Lynne Antone
>Olympia WA USA
>
>
***********************************************
* Matthew Blumenthal *
* Fremont CA *
* Potter, Guitar Player, General Computer Nut *
* mattb@ix.netcom.com *
* http://www.mattegrafix.com *
***********************************************
Mark on sun 21 mar 99
Here are some alternatives to making a two piece goblet. You can avoid the
need to level your assembled pieces and save a step by making one piece
thrown goblets.
In the first kind, you make a tiny disc or saucer of clay and set it aside.
Then you make a cylinder, neck it in where you want the cup to start, and
shape the cup. You drop the little disc into the hole in the bottom of the
cup and blend it in. You can finish shaping the cup and stem and remove
the goblet from the wheel. Make sure the saucer is not too chunky or you
will have a hard time working the clay evenly into the goblet. I have also
had a hard time trying this with really soft clay -- it deforms way too easy.
In the other method, you throw the cup on the hump and throw the base below
it out of solid clay. You can decorate the stem and base, trim it and cut
the whole thing off. I have not tried this, but I have seen it done very
successfully by Cynthia Bringle.
Good luck.
Mark
Sharon Pollock-De Luzio on fri 26 mar 99
Lynne:
I used to make 150 goblets in a day and a half, every day for 3 years working
for a small production pottery. It paid my way through grad school!
I used a chuck (bisque fired) instead of the grip. I think this let me eyeball
it a little better. If the rim of your goblet is not level relative to the
form then the grip is unforgiving because the lip is always flat on the wheel
head.
Also try putting them together as wet as possible with the top part being a
little dryer than the bottom. Then when you flip them right-side-up onto the
board after they are finished you can press on the top rim of the goblet to
level them. This works well for stoneware. Porcelain is less forgiving. Dry
them slowly under plastic. This makes a big difference in warping during
drying.
good luck.
Sharon in RI
Lynne Antone wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Have been trying my hand at wine goblets lately and have run into a problem.
> First I trim the cup and while it is sitting in the Grip, I attach the stem.
> Both pieces are level, it seems, yet when I join them, I have a hard time
> making the whole affair level. About half the time a get a wobble. Any hints
> on a better way to do this or a way to correct the wobble. Seems no matter
> what I try, it gets worse.
>
> Thanks,
> Lynne Antone
> Olympia WA USA
Frank Simons on thu 9 dec 99
------------------
Greetings----Thought I would try my hand at making some 2-piece goblets.
Unfortuneately they all seem to separate in the bisque firing, no matter how=
I
join the parts. I have tried firing them right side up and down side up, but=
the
mortality rate of these guys is almost 100=25. I am obviously doing some =
thing
wrong but darned if I know what. Could this be a differential shrinkage =
problem?
or maybe an uneven cooling? Any input would certainly help with the
frustration.......
Pat Simons in
Penticton, B.C.
Brad Sondahl on fri 10 dec 99
Most stems pop when steam is trapped between the two parts. Thorough
drying will eliminate this, but it's easier to avoid it by making sure
the stem is hollow all the way to the goblet top. Then there's no place
for the steam to build up. I'll poke through a partially closed stem
with a needle tool, also will carve some of the middle top of the stem
out before attaching.
--
Brad Sondahl
http://www.camasnet.com/~asondahl/bradindex.html
Sondahl homepage http://www.camasnet.com/~asondahl
Original literature, music, pottery, and art
Robert Izzi on mon 7 jan 02
Hello, haven't thrown any goblets for years but when I did (do) I attach the
inverted bowl on the wheel head and score the bottom of the trimed bowl
,attach a small amount of throwing clay to the bottom of the bowl, then I
will throw a stem right on the bottom of the bowl. Works for me.
Bob I
Dale Neese on mon 7 jan 02
Susan,
throw the cup or bowl form, let it dry to leather hard careful not to let it
dry unevenly.
Recenter the cup firmly to the wheelhead and trim it smooth as if you were
trimming a bowl without a foot ring. While you still have it centered on the
wheel take some really nice plastic, soft clay, form a ball, nearly the size
of a tennis ball. Score the bowl form where the stem is to be attached.
Place the really nice soft plastic ball of clay on top of the bowl with some
slip. Start the wheel and get the ball as centered on top of the cup as
possible. Then, with a finger, press the soft ball of clay at the base all
around until it is mated with the cup of the goblet. Now gently center that
soft ball of clay on top of the trimmed cup of the goblet. This will work
only if your ball of clay that forms the stem of the goblet is plastic and
soft enough to hold it's shape when thrown into a stem. You don't need much
water since the clay is really soft. I use a heat gun briefly to stiffen
the clay where the two components are attached to prevent twisting of the
stem. This procedure takes a while to master but once you get the hang of
it, this technique is, in my opinion the best way to attach stems to
goblets. I use a guide stick to measure the height of the stem to make most
of the goblets match each other in height. I take a week and throw nothing
but goblets each day alternating between bowls and throwing of the attached
stems. One of the hardest forms for me to make consistently and when the
week is over I don't have to throw goblet sets again for a while. If you
want to see some of my goblets, send me an off list ClayArt email and I will
attach photos back.
Dale Tex
dneese@satx.rr.com
Susan Antinori on mon 7 jan 02
Hello all, I've been making goblets lately and as a neophyte have wondered
as to the best way of attaching the foot...my goblets are about 4 inches
high (bowl) and the foot about 2 inches high thrown off the hump. I cut
the foot off and lute it on the base of the leather hard bowl but worry
that this will create a mid section of very thick clay that will crack
somewhere along the line. Any help vastly appreciated!
kruzewski on tue 8 jan 02
Dear Susan,
I don't know if this will be of help, but here goes anyway.
I make my goblets a little differently, I throw the tops and bottoms in the same
session and trim the bowls slightly when leather hard, slip and scorring the bowl
after trimming - I use a needle tool to score then rotate on the wheel and "slip"
using a toothbrush dipped in water, then add the foot, also slipped and scorred,
and squiggle it into place. I then smooth the join and use a tiny sausage of clay
around the join to make sure. The thing is, you sound like you throw your foot
solid, I throw mine hollow, and not off the hump. I use the same weight of clay for
the foot as I do the top, pull out to a bottomless cylinder, then pull up to form a
hollow cone which I trim to the correct height. That way there is no thick mid
section, and I've never known one to crack.
Jacqui, North Wales
Susan Antinori wrote:
> Hello all, I've been making goblets lately and as a neophyte have wondered
> as to the best way of attaching the foot.
Steve Mills on tue 8 jan 02
Susan,
If you are worried about the thickness where you join the two pieces,
bore a hole right up from the base of the foot to the point where you
join them, alternatively throw the foot as an upside down cone rather
than a solid section. That should solve the problem.
As a matter of interest there are two ways of making goblets in one
piece:
throw a bottomless cylinder to the right height, making the top 1/3 (or
so) the bowl, and then as the last act before wiring off, narrow the
cylinder right in under the bowl, lift it off the wheel, and when
leather hard, drop a little plug into the bottom of the bowl to separate
it from the foot.
the other way is to throw the bowl on top of a solid *trunk* of clay,
shape the foot with a profile, and when leather hard carve the
intervening clay trunk into an interesting shape!
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Susan Antinori writes
>Hello all, I've been making goblets lately and as a neophyte have wondere=
>d
>as to the best way of attaching the foot...my goblets are about 4 inches
>high (bowl) and the foot about 2 inches high thrown off the hump. I cut
>the foot off and lute it on the base of the leather hard bowl but worry
>that this will create a mid section of very thick clay that will crack
>somewhere along the line. Any help vastly appreciated!
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Cat Jarosz on tue 8 jan 02
ahhhhh I should run screaming ;o) I hate doing goblets ask anyone ,
ask my hubby ask my dog bopper !!! why do I do goblets when it the day I
concider a "working day " ? Well I really like the dang things when
they are finished and its just throwing the pieces parts that drives me up a
wall.. I have read other posts about how I make the parts and guess I'll
go cut and paste one explaination here .
>>When I make goblets (not my favorite thing) I make the stems hollow,
in the
upright position, on the wheel. I flare the top of the column slightly and
trim with a needle tool for absolute level. With a hollow stem you don't
have that mass of clay. <<
OK with the above stolen statement from Ann in Ca... I make the stems
separate and hollow and dont care about the dishwasher leaving water in the
stem I just dump it out... I also use a stick for height like someone else
wrote about ...
OK what I didnt hear is how to stick em together and make them level.. I
use the giffin grip to trim both stems and tops then draw a circle about
same size as the top of stem on the bottom of the cup as it turns on the
grip so it is centered then slip and score and attach ... next I use a
flat bat ( small 6" squares I have available) and a small level sooo
small you can make a fist around it) atop the stem( this is still on the
giffin grip by the way and upside down ) and wiggle it till its perfectly
level then retool the join area inside and out and recheck the level ...
voila... PS what the heck is luting and how would this create a midsection
of very thick clay?
Cat Jarosz in cold cold NC mnts who is gonna miss big bro Tony the
tiger with claws hehehehehehe but soooo glad he has such a great job and
I think its awesome those lucky students !!! He may single handedly get a
new generation of potters started !!!!!!!!!!! HIGH 5 Tony soo happy for
you and Sheila...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I cut
> the foot off and lute it on the base of the leather hard bowl but worry
> that this will create a mid section of very thick clay that will crack
> somewhere along the line. Any help vastly appreciated!<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sorry but what the heck is luting ??? lute fish ?? is this another
nor'wedgie'an word ??
Snail Scott on tue 8 jan 02
At 10:59 AM 1/8/02 EST, you wrote:
PS what the heck is luting and how would this create a midsection
>of very thick clay?
'Luting' is that technique of smooshing clay from one
side of a joint to the other. (See, you knew that exotic
technique already, just not the exotic word!)
The 'thick midsection'...does she mean that the top of
the stem flares like the bottom does, making a conical
cross-section at the base of the goblet bowl?
-Snail
Bob Hamm on tue 8 jan 02
I have just being reading the posts about making goblets. They are not =
one of my favorite items to make but I do it anyway.=20
Before Christmas I needed some goblets fast. I use ^6 Mix so I was not =
sure how hard I could push. I made two small batches which I pushed very =
hard. 48 hours after I started throwing, the second batch had been =
dried, bisqued, glazed and was ready to be loaded in the kiln. No cracks =
or warpage in the finished goblets. While this was fast, it was not =
productive. It took a lot of drying with a propane torch to throw and =
complete 6 goblets in 2 hours. A much more efficient process would be to =
just let the air dry them naturally.=20
I don't know why anyone would want to push the process as much as I did =
with these batches. I certainly don't. But it seems to me that a process =
must be pretty sound to tolerate this kind of abuse. My normal method is =
much the same as some of the others posted with a couple of different =
details.=20
I throw the bowl, then trim it when it is very stiff. They are hard. If =
the bases are to soft when I trim, I will either set them aside to dry =
or use a propane torch to dry them.
To make the stems I extrude a coil of clay and cut it to predetermined =
lengths. To a centered bowl, I add a smear of thin slip, no scoring, =
then attach the small pug of clay with a twisting motion. I then throw a =
hollow stem the same way I would throw a wide flaring rim on a bottle. I =
use a pointer gauge to throw the stem to the right height and width. The =
goblets are then set aside to dry uncovered.
This technique works very well for me. I think I have only one stem =
release in a bisque firing and it could have been bumped.
I have just posted an image of a goblet to my web site on the dinnerware =
page. You access the dinnerware page through images.=20
Bob Hamm
Ph (250) 765-8876 Fax (250) 765-0497
email bobhamm@look.ca web site www.bobhamm-art.com=20
6750 Highway 33 East=20
Kelowna, B.C. Canada V1P 1H9
For information about the Kelowna Clay Festival 2001, go to =
www.bobhamm-art.com/clayfest=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
Gillian Evison on tue 8 jan 02
Hi Cat,
The trimming process sounds rather complicated - I have made
thousands of goblets, and discovered the secret! Throw the bowls and stems
off the hump. Eyeball both pieces and throw about 30 of each. The stems are
hollow - start with a tube about 11/2 inches high, 1 inch wide and 1/4 inch
thick ie just a tiny thick cylinder. Then give 3 pulls. The first one up,
the second one compress in from the bottom come up a bit for the stem, then
flare out. The last pull is from the beginning of the flare, out to
stabilise and set the rim. Use something to roughly measure the size and cut
off with a needle tool.
Set all pieces aside until soft leather hard. Now go through and set
the bowls in rows of matching sizes - there are usually 5 - 7 different
sizes ( very small differences if your eye is good). Now look at your stems
and start matching them to the bowls - smallest stem to largest bowl and so
on.
Centre the bowl on the wheelhead; anchor with three tiny tabs of clay,
score with a toothbrush as it turns - score the rough end of the stem and
set it in the middle of the upsidedown bowl. Check centering by turning the
wheel a bit then press down on the stem to the bowl with a thumbnail or
similar shaped tool. Gently turn to whatever attaching shape you want, and
you are almost done.
Remove from wheel - put on bench - put you eye on a level with the bowl
rim and slowly rotate the piece. If you see a lean, correct by bending the
stem slightly, or applying pressure on the foot. Experience will tell you
what is best.Dry upside down.
Do these 30, 60, or 90 at a time and you will soon be supplying every
church in America with chalices for mass.
Jill.
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on wed 9 jan 02
Dear All,
just a thought that I do not think has been mentioned. You can throw =
Bowl and Stem in one go. I read in a Ceramic Review in the 70's about =
the process and tried it and used it for a number of years. The main =
draw back is that the Goblet is initially a bit "Chunky" until you get =
used to throwing a thin stem with a lot of top weight.
happy potting Marek http://www.moley.uk.com=20
Bob Hanlin on thu 10 jan 02
The last goblets that I made I threw the bases off the leather hard cups
inverted in my Giffin Grip (another use for this wonderful tool".
Try it...you might like it......at least they always sit straight.
BobH>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Antinori"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 4:15 PM
Subject: Goblets
> Hello all, I've been making goblets lately and as a neophyte have wondered
> as to the best way of attaching the foot...my goblets are about 4 inches
> high (bowl) and the foot about 2 inches high thrown off the hump. I cut
> the foot off and lute it on the base of the leather hard bowl but worry
> that this will create a mid section of very thick clay that will crack
> somewhere along the line. Any help vastly appreciated!
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Randy McCall on sun 15 jan 06
Chris ,,,,,,,,,,this does not answer your question, but I recently made 14
wine goblets and they all turned out fine with a pin hole in the center of
the bottom. I glazed one for myself to use and have found that you need to
warn your customer about using them in a dish washer as the stem will fill
with water so they need to be hand washed so no water gets in the stem.
I am interested too in the response you get.
Just a comment
Randy
Pottery Web Site
members.tripod.com/~McCallJ/index.html
South Carolina
Bonnie Staffel on mon 16 jan 06
I might add that you don't have to warn a customer about the hole n the
bottom if you plug it with some epoxy putty after the final firing.
Takes but a moment and the problem is solved.
I might add, that if you use a pin tool to poke the hole, that you go in
twice. Sometimes a bit of clay sticks to the tip of the pin and
replants itself on withdrawing, plugging the hole.
Regards, Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
| |
|
