David Hendley on thu 25 feb 99
Well, I haven't had a good disagreement with Mel in quite a
while, so I'd like to respond with my thoughtful opinions
to his messages about throwing off the hump:
1. Throwing off the hump is no more precise or less precise
than conventional throwing. All throwing is precise if you
are good, not precise if you are not.
2. Throwing off the hump IS fast and easy. Again, if you
are experienced and good.
3. Throwing off the hump is no more oriental than a Honda
Civic (they're built in Kentucky, you know).
4. American "throwers" also work 8 or 10 hours a day, 5 days a
week, and average 20-50 pots an hour, depending on size.
They are a dying breed, but you can visit them at Marshall
Pottery, in East Texas, and you will see them doing what
they've been doing all their lives.
5. Hump throwing is not "nice to know", but is a requirement
to know, if you are a serious potter who plans to make a
living as a functional potter. For certain sizes and shapes, it
is the only reasonable way to thow a piece.
If I had two Japanese apprentices, I would let them pug,
wedge, and weigh balls of clay, just like the old timers train
their 'boys' at Marshall Pottery.
Best wishes,
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
At 08:35 PM 2/24/99 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>the technique of hump throwing is for very, very precision throwing.
>it is not fast or easy.
>but, it is meant to be perfect.
>that is why the oriental potters developed it.
>production throwing that is perfect.
>i do not use it very much in my own pottery anymore.
>it is too slow.
>i weigh the clay to throw sets.
>
>most american customers would not have a clue as to how the pots
>are made, produced or thrown.
>i watch kevin caufield throw pots as fast as any production potter
>i have seen....he just weighs the clay, slams them down and makes pots.
>sells like mad. (if you make a good product, have some sense of marketing
>and get after it....one can make a good living. we have many local potters
>that do very well. kevin, the dock six women, tom wirt, (buy the way, they
>(dock six) are
>showing at the home show this weekend.
>what a concept. i am sure they will sell out.
>the only potters at this event, and have about 600 fountains with them.)
>they are really getting after it.
>they just weigh the clay and throw the pots. and work long hours.
>fire almost everyday, a big car kiln. state of the art and can they fire
it.
>
>
>hump throwing is nice to know, but not the answer for many contemporary
>western potters.
>i use it a great deal for covers, spouts small detailed things.
>small well thrown pieces. but, as a daily practice..not.
>
>when i came back from japan after making maybe 10,000 pots
>on the hump, well, it was a pleasure to weight out 4 lbs of clay
>and just make my stuff. (remember, a japanese thrower works a ten hour day,
>six days a week...and makes maybe, average, 40 pots and hour.) do the math.
>mr. uchida told me as i was leaving, `you cannot be japanese, nor do you
>want to be japanese.....just go home and make your pots`.
>good advice. and my skills where about 800% better.
>
>the reason kevin is so fast is that he makes thousands of pots a year.
>not 20 a week.
>he gets after it.
>and always has people mad at him......his orders are so piled up.
>this is not an accident.
>my own daughter has a set of porcelain dishes still on order. my kid, mind
>you. kurt wild has a set of dishes ordered, he will decorate them as a
>joint effort with kevin.
>
>but, he makes great dinnerware......much better than me.
>
>mel/mn
>
>
>
>
>
>if i had two japanese apprentices, i would let them do it.
>and i would design pots all day as my teacher did in japan.
>
>
>http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>minnetonka, minnesota/ u.s.a.
>
Ilene Mahler on sun 27 apr 03
I have been throwing off the hump after my 1st semester I am having a =
problem Its' the same clay that I have been using the wonderful Loafers' =
Glory from Highwater..I did 16 beautiful teabowls trimmed and 9 had s =
cracks they were evenly thrown and trimmed the Question is why some =
lived and others cracked I cover the trimmed bowls over nite as to even =
out the drying..Mark Is' green crystal bowl was in this batch,and was =
good enough for a present..Stumped... compressed the bottoms 4 times at =
least...Ilene in Conn where I have 3 shows starting Sat....
Susan Setley on sun 27 apr 03
In a message dated 4/27/03 1:24:22 PM, imahler@ATTBI.COM writes:
<< I have been throwing off the hump after my 1st semester I am having a
problem Its' the same clay that I have been using the wonderful Loafers'
Glory from Highwater..I did 16 beautiful teabowls trimmed and 9 had s cracks
they were evenly thrown and trimmed the Question is why some lived and others
cracked I cover the trimmed bowls over nite as to even out the drying..Mark
Is' green crystal bowl was in this batch,and was good enough for a
present..Stumped... compressed the bottoms 4 times at least...Ilene in Conn
where I have 3 shows starting Sat.... >>
Did you compress the bottom while it was on the hump or afterwards? You're
just going to have more cracked bottoms when throwing off the hump. I would
save that technique for when it's well-suited. It is a great way to throw
multiple spouts ... and they do well because they have no bottom to mess up
on you.
I wouldn't throw off the hump without good reason. I knew a woman who had an
order for 100 small, shallow bowls for a sushi bar. She threw them off the
hump because it was fast but made 120 to allow for cracking.
Earl Brunner on sun 27 apr 03
I was in a workshop once where a Japanese potter demonstrated a throwing
technique off of the hump that yielded little or no s-cracking in the
produced wares. The problem I think stems from the fact that you can't
really "compress" the bottom in the same way that you do off of the
wheel head or a bat. You aren't compressing against anything (the bat
or wheel head)when you are trying to compress down through this big lump
of clay.
The method that was demonstrated works pretty well, I just don't have a
clue how to explain or describe it in words.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Susan
Setley
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 11:44 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: hump throwing
In a message dated 4/27/03 1:24:22 PM, imahler@ATTBI.COM writes:
<< I have been throwing off the hump after my 1st semester I am having a
problem Its' the same clay that I have been using the wonderful Loafers'
Glory from Highwater..I did 16 beautiful teabowls trimmed and 9 had s
cracks
they were evenly thrown and trimmed the Question is why some lived and
others
cracked I cover the trimmed bowls over nite as to even out the
drying..Mark
Is' green crystal bowl was in this batch,and was good enough for a
present..Stumped... compressed the bottoms 4 times at least...Ilene in
Conn
where I have 3 shows starting Sat.... >>
cafish47 on sun 27 apr 03
Compress with your finger After you trim too. (or a wood tool). I had
not thrown for awhile and had that problem. So I compressed after
trimming. And I also waxed the bottoms of the pots inside and out
(including the foot) to help slow down the drying. It helped allot.
Cheryl Fisher
cafish47@netscape.net
imahler@ATTBI.COM wrote:
>I have been throwing off the hump after my 1st semester I am having a problem Its' the same clay that I have been using the wonderful Loafers' Glory from Highwater..I did 16 beautiful teabowls trimmed and 9 had s cracks they were evenly thrown and trimmed the Question is why some lived and others cracked I cover the trimmed bowls over nite as to even out the drying..Mark Is' green crystal bowl was in this batch,and was good enough for a present..Stumped... compressed the bottoms 4 times at least...Ilene in Conn where I have 3 shows starting Sat....
>
>
>
Susan Setley on sun 27 apr 03
In a message dated 4/27/03 3:13:33 PM, brunv53@YAHOO.COM writes:
<<
The method that was demonstrated works pretty well, I just don't have a
clue how to explain or describe it in words.
>>
One thing you can do is put it on the wheel afterwards and compress it
against the wheel.
Vince Pitelka on mon 28 apr 03
> Compress with your finger After you trim too. (or a wood tool). I had
> not thrown for awhile and had that problem. So I compressed after
> trimming. And I also waxed the bottoms of the pots inside and out
> (including the foot) to help slow down the drying. It helped allot.
Cheryl -
I think you were lucky, in that the compressing prevented the S-cracks even
THOUGH you waxed the bottom inside and out, because that is about the last
thing you should do to prevent S-cracks. Much of the problem with S-cracks
arises from the bottom drying out slower than the walls and rim. Waxing the
bottom inside and out would simply increase that likelihood.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Vince Pitelka on mon 28 apr 03
Throwing off the hump is a great process. It makes good sense for most
kinds of small-footed forms, and you can eliminate S-cracks almost entirely
if you follow some simple guidelines.
1) Don't use a gritless clay unless you need to. A clay with some sand or
grog will be far less likely to S-crack.
2) Compress the bottom very well as you are throwing the form. This is
simply a matter of applying moderate pressure with your fingers or a small
rib back and forth between the center point and the inside right-hand wall
of the form as the wheel is spinning.
3) When you cut the form off the hump, always do it with the wheel turning.
If you pull your cutoff wire straight across, it is more likely to leave
uneven stresses which can cause cracks. A Japanese cutoff string with a
single handle works best. You can find directions for making one in the
archives, or in my book.
4) As SOON as the form can stand it, turn it upside down, and let it stiffen
to trimable consistency that way. The tendency for S-cracks is greatly
increased when the rim and wall of a form dry faster than the foot.
5) When you trim the foot, compress the space inside the foot, using a
rounded modeling tool. It only takes a second, and usually eliminates the
cracks when nothing else will. The cracks usually start from the underside
and spread upwards through the bottom. Compressing the underside usually
stops that possibility.
6) Recite magical incantations.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Ruth Ballou on tue 29 apr 03
Since pressing downward effectively is difficult, press inward from the
sides, just below the inside bottom of the pot. Start with a foot wider
than the desired final size and press inward toward the center of the
mound so that the mound is visibly narrowed, at the beginning of each
pull. Also, do not leave water in the bottom at any time. Even a
little extra water will be absorbed in the foot area and create the
dreaded drying differential.
Good luck.
Ruth Ballou
Silver Spring, MD
iandol on wed 30 apr 03
Dear Vince Pitelka,=20
Your instructions for preventing the incidence of cracks in the bottoms =
of things thrown from the Hump seem to cover things pretty well though I =
would substitute Consolidate for Compress. They are all well known =
procedures. The only point I would add is to apply pressure towards the =
foot from the outside to give support as pressure is applied to the =
interior base plane. This helps to disrupt the original flow patterns =
and circulates the clay while maintaining physical strength beneath an =
overhanging wall.
But do you have any explanations for why each works and gives a fair =
degree of success?
Beat regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Jorge Nabel on thu 1 may 03
As I could never learn the string thing, I managed to learn other way. I
used a stainless steel tool till I found something called "mayoknife". Its a
kind of spatula used to take out of the canister all the contents. I really
dont know if its plastic or teflon, but its light,firm and has a smooth edge
so you keep it in the water bucket and it works wonderfully. Clay doesnt
stick to it so you dont twist the pot, and I put two fingers of my left hand
( palms up) one on each side of the foot to hold the pot when taking it to
the table with the knife. I saved a lot of time with this. Hope you find
it.Bought it in a dollar shop and its chinese.
Jorge en Buenos Aires
Liz Willoughby on fri 2 may 03
Jorge, I never learned the string thing either. I use a bamboo
skewer, cutting first at a 45 degree angle, and then gradually move
the bamboo horizontal, all while the wheel is turning, then stop the
wheel and cut off the small amount of clay that is left with a wire.
Porcelain body, C10, using little water while throwing, compression
inside, then out (using the technique above), I get very few cracks.
Different strokes for different folks, so long as it works.
Meticky Liz
>As I could never learn the string thing, I managed to learn other way. I
>used a stainless steel tool till I found something called "mayoknife". Its a
>kind of spatula used to take out of the canister all the contents. I really
>dont know if its plastic or teflon, but its light,firm and has a smooth edge
>so you keep it in the water bucket and it works wonderfully. Clay doesnt
>stick to it so you dont twist the pot, and I put two fingers of my left hand
>( palms up) one on each side of the foot to hold the pot when taking it to
>the table with the knife. I saved a lot of time with this. Hope you find
>it.Bought it in a dollar shop and its chinese.
>
>Jorge en Buenos Aires
>
Liz Willoughby
RR 1
2903 Shelter Valley Rd.
Grafton, On.
Canada
K0K 2G0
e-mail lizwill@phc.igs.net
mel jacobson on tue 6 mar 07
i don't want to pimp...but my book is filled
with drawings of how to hump throw and measure.
it is sort of the base thought in the book.
all the ribs, tools, stuff is illustrated.
i could go on for pages about this stuff.
but one drawing will do more than 50 pages of blather.
pmi did a story i did about hump throwing....with the
same sort of illustrations.
a few years back.
check it out...free.
i use 18lb standard fish line...you know the old
style black casting reel line for the one knob cut off.
....and one spool will last a potter 2,856 years of
throwing.
i have used one five inch cut off/hump tool
about 25 years.
i make all of my covers, accessory pots from the hump.
same for teapot spouts.
lots of little/quick dishes. they go like blazes.
use a tombo made of bbq/skewer sticks and popsicle stick.
i drill 5 holes down the popsicle stick...add the skewer through
the hole. so, you have height and width in one tool.
the rib is used inside the pot...it makes the shape, then you
refine it...but the size is always right on.
oh well, a demo would be worth your time.
mel
from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
Clayart page link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
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