Bacia Edelman on thu 23 apr 98
There have been a lot of requests for Steven's recipes and address. This is
not really about either. First, I am an enthusiastic admirer of his work,
loved a week-end workshop in Cambridge, WI about 2 yrs. ago, and even bought
one of his vases made oval like the pitchers.
He has had a lot of press lately , a feature article on pulling handles in
the current issue of Pottery Making Illustrated as well as a long article by
him with photos of his work in the April Ceramics Monthly. On p. 58 there is
a "melon Pitcher" with manganese-saturated glaze and on p. 59 there is a
full page photo of "Cypress Ewer" with manganese saturated glaze. On p. 62
appears a teabowl with "Shino and manganese glazes, and on p. 63 is a
beautiful oval tray, which definitely looks like a combo of the
manganese-saturated glaze and a copper glaze, but bears no description.
Below it is a picture of Steven's hands with spray gun, plastic bottle
clearly marked *Manganese*. I suppose I should write and ask him about his
use of manganese in view of all we are learning about its toxicity,but I
have no e-mail address for him (too lazy to write a real letter out of the
blue) and really just wonder what you, my colleagues, think of these
beautiful vessels. A pitcher, ewer, teabowl and tray certainly would be
considered *functional* even though I might not serve anything out of a 19"
high ewer.
Any comments? We keep hearing about people who became ill from MnO2
including our own Elke Blodgett. I think Pat Horsley in Portland has had
serious health problems because of it as well.
Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
Craig Martell on fri 24 apr 98
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Any comments? We keep hearing about people who became ill from MnO2
>including our own Elke Blodgett. I think Pat Horsley in Portland has had
>serious health problems because of it as well.
>Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
Hi:
I saw Pat last week and he looked pretty good to me, as in not having any
serious health problems at all. So, let's not start any unpleasant rumors!
I think it's up to ceramists to learn all they can about the good and bad
side of everything we use and then make decisions about what to avoid and
what to use. Manganese and Barium and all the other potentially toxics can
be used if care and intelligence is applied. It is also necessary that
potters and ceramists gain an understanding of glaze technology. Clayart
has helped a great deal in this area.
Be carful, it's dangerous out there! Craig Martell-Oregon
Plaznclay on fri 24 apr 98
Seems to me that the manganese glazes would be safe on exterior surfaces that
did not come in contact with the user's mouth. Safe handling of the raw
glazes would be the problem.
Paul Lewing on fri 24 apr 98
Bacia,
I was wondering if I was the only one who cringed when I saw those
pots of S. H.'s with the Mn-saturate glaze on them. Especially when I
saw him spraying them.
It is not Pat Horsley who may have Mn poisoning, it is Dave Shaner.
His right arm has been sort of withering up for several years and
hardly works at all any more. It was originally thought that he had
Lou Gehrig's Disease, then they thaought it was bone spurs in his
neck. Now he's taking kelation treatments to try to rid his body of
the Mn. He thinks he may have gotten it by breathing the fumes from
his kiln while he was firing.
In my opinion, Dave is the best American potter of his generation, and
it's really heart-breaking to know that he can't throw any more. My
opinion is also that Steven Hill is one of the best potters of his
generation, and it would be even sadder for him to suffer the same
fate, considering that the information and the example is there for
him to see.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Sylvia See on fri 24 apr 98
Bacia: I also was totally amazed at the Steven Hill article in Ceramics =
Monthly.
We had a workshop in our small potters guild last year, where a well known
potter in our area demonstrated press molds and sold pieces of her work, all
functional with manganese saturated glazes as well. I look at Steven Hills =
work
and I am totally in awe. I think his work is wonderful. However, since the
latest article, I wouldn't dream of using one of his wonderful pitchers,
illustrated in Ceramics Monthly. What worries me the most is, when we put on
workshops by well-known potters in our small community, and it is attended =
by
many newcomers who think the person conducting the workshop is near God, =
then
they believe everything they do is correct. Just try to tell a group of
newcomers it may be dangerous to eat out of manganese saturated functional
pieces made by God. When the potter was questioned about the manganese, she
assured everyone there that her crackled, manganese glazes were totally =
safe. I
quickly found out that to doubt God can very quickly put you at odds with =
the
rest of the guild. So much for general public safety. They are suppose to =
know
better than we potters, and we are often led down the garden-path by the =
leaders
in our field.
The hair is standing up on the back of my neck again, and I feel like I =
am
in trouble again over this email . Oh well, who's the reporter that always =
ends
with =22that's my opinion=22
Sylvia See Claresholm, Alberta sylviac=40telusplanet.net
Candice Roeder on fri 24 apr 98
Hi all,
Steven knows about manganese, I'm quite sure, and it's dangers...so he
probably doesn't need to be "educated" about this matter. Also....last
I knew he didn't have an e-mail address, feeling it was going to be
something he wouldn't have enough time for.
Last I knew his manganese glaze recipe was one he kept to himself, and
didn't give out...even if you begged.
He does not use it on the inside of functional vessels.
Candice Roeder
Bacia Edelman wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> There have been a lot of requests for Steven's recipes and address. This is n
him with photos of his work in the April Ceramics Monthly. On p. 58
there is
> a "melon Pitcher" with manganese-saturated glaze and on p. 59 there is a full
> appears a teabowl with "Shino and manganese glazes, and on p. 63 is a
> beautiful oval tray, which definitely looks like a combo of the
> manganese-saturated glaze and a copper glaze, but bears no description.
> Below it is a picture of Steven's hands with spray gun, plastic bottle
> clearly marked *Manganese*. I suppose I should write and ask him about his
> use of manganese in view of all we are learning about its toxicity,but I
> have no e-mail address for him (too lazy to write a real letter out of the
> blue) and really just wonder what you, my colleagues, think of these
> beautiful vessels. A pitcher, ewer, teabowl and tray certainly would be
> considered *functional* even though I might not serve anything out of a 19"
> high ewer.
>
> Any comments? We keep hearing about people who became ill from MnO2
> including our own Elke Blodgett. I think Pat Horsley in Portland has had
> serious health problems because of it as well.
>
> Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
Cindy on sat 25 apr 98
All this manganese talk raises a question for me. Her in Custer, SD, many
people have manganese in their wells. I asked a local developer what he
planned to do about the problem on an acreage he is currently subdividing
and he was surprised I thought there might be any danger. Says it causes a
build-up on sinks and is a hassle with laundry, but there isn't enough to
hurt anyone. I don't think he even knew it was toxic. How much manganese is
too much, anyhow? Is there an established limit for water supplies?
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels
Custer, SD
USA http://blackhills-info.com/a/cindys/menu.htm
KLeSueur on sun 26 apr 98
Before people panic at the thought of manganese glazes it might be advisable
to have those glazes tested for leaching. Spraying of any glaze can be
hazardous if the spray set up is not properly designed and the operator is not
wearing a well-fitting respirator.
We all know that lead glazes are harmful, yet they are used by the U.S.
ceramicis industry everyday. Properly formulated they are safe. That might
also be the case for manganese.
As for David Shaner's arm. I'd suggest a sports medicine doctor as another
route to a cure. There are lots of potters who have the same symptoms but
don't use manganese. I thought my career was over several years ago. But six
months of phsical theraphy with one of the best shoulder specialists in the
country (just lucky she' s in Ann Arbor) cured me. OwlPotter can attest to the
condition I was in when she started and how after two years I'm still throwing
daily with no problems.
kathi LeSueur
Paul Lewing on mon 27 apr 98
KLeSueur wrote:
> As for David Shaner's arm. I'd suggest a sports medicine doctor as another
> route to a cure. There are lots of potters who have the same symptoms but
> don't use manganese.
Kathy,
Sorry, but I don't think I made clear exactly what Dave Shaner's
symptoms are, but they are not the same symptoms that a lot of potters
have. His whole right arm is withering up and turning inward. He has
almost no grip strength, and his right arm now has about half of the
muscle mass of his left. His hand and fingers are twisted and
inflexible. Definitely beyond what a sports medicine clinic could
deal with.
It would be incredibly sad to see the same thing happen to Steven
Hill, with Dave's example before him, especially since dave should
have learned from the example of Hans Coper before him!
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Stephen Mills on tue 28 apr 98
Hans Coper was also a VERY heavy smoker. We have to be very careful in
what we attribute to manganese, accepting only that which is proven
byond doubt and avoid decending into hysteria.
I have a friend whose wife's arm exhibited the same symptoms as Dave
Shaners. After a great deal of investigation, it eventually turned out
to be a very severely trapped nerve in the shoulder, a diagnosis that
had escaped several highly qualified medical gentlemen. She is now fully
recovered
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Paul Lewing writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>KLeSueur wrote:
>
>> As for David Shaner's arm. I'd suggest a sports medicine doctor as another
>> route to a cure. There are lots of potters who have the same symptoms but
>> don't use manganese.
>
>Kathy,
>Sorry, but I don't think I made clear exactly what Dave Shaner's
>symptoms are, but they are not the same symptoms that a lot of potters
>have. His whole right arm is withering up and turning inward. He has
>almost no grip strength, and his right arm now has about half of the
>muscle mass of his left. His hand and fingers are twisted and
>inflexible. Definitely beyond what a sports medicine clinic could
>deal with.
>
>It would be incredibly sad to see the same thing happen to Steven
>Hill, with Dave's example before him, especially since dave should
>have learned from the example of Hans Coper before him!
>
>Paul Lewing, Seattle
>
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
KLeSueur on tue 28 apr 98
In a message dated 4/27/98 2:01:02 PM, you wrote:
<symptoms are, but they are not the same symptoms that a lot of potters
have. His whole right arm is withering up and turning inward. He has
almost no grip strength, and his right arm now has about half of the
muscle mass of his left. His hand and fingers are twisted and
inflexible. Definitely beyond what a sports medicine clinic could
deal with.
>>
While I won't dispute that Dave Shaner's problems are chemically related, his
symptoms are very similar to what I was experiencing. I could barely grip. Had
no strength in my right arm. Couldn't raise it above waist high.
The main lesson here is that we potters ( and other artists) wait far too long
before seeking treatment for pain. We tough it out when we should be going to
the doctor at the FIRST sign of problems with our bodies.
Kathi LeSueur
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