MRS SANDRA L BURKE on fri 10 apr 98
I have an unsual problem that needs to be addressed as quickly as
possible. HELP! Please!
I teach a a college in the st Louis area. Directtly behind the
ceramics lab is a storage area. It seems that amon other things, they
also store motorcycles. On Tue I walked into the lab and there was a
strong oder of gasoline. It seems one of the motorcycles had a leak.
Well this is Thursday and I can still smell gasoline.
I NEED to fire my two electric kilns SOON, as we have a student show
coming up in two weeks. We have had kiln problems all semester and I
am behind as it is.
The area where the motorcycles are store is directly behind the
lkilns, there is no firewall, only regular drywall (not fireproofed).
How much danger is there with electric kilns and gas fumes, does the
presence of an ordor necessicarily mean there are still fumes present.
HELP please------this question NEVER came up in any of my ceramics
classes.
Thanks,
Sandra Burke
Tim Stowell on sun 12 apr 98
At 1am on night last year I went to our studio to do a last minute firing
for an upcoming show. When I opened the door to our store a blast of
gasoline fumes hit me in the face. I immediately called the building
manager and he called the fire department. We store no gas in our
store/studio. I went downstairs to the kilns and the odor was even worse.
I kept the door open and within 5 minutes four firetrucks with sirens and
lights going and the building manager pulled up. He and the firemen went
through our space and the adjacent basements. They used a handheld device
which sniffs for different gas vapors. It showed that gas vapors were
present (duh?!?), but, that they were not of a high enough concentration
to cause an explosion or fire. They gave me the OK to fire the kilns. I
didn't sleep to well that night, but, the store/studio was still there in
the heart of downtown Troy the next day. One of the firemen came back two
days later and bought one of our bowls. It seems someone must have dumped
gas down a nearby sewer and the fumes were coming up through a dry trap
in an adjacent basement.
After all this, I would suggest calling your local fire department and
ask them if they would/could check it out for you. Don't forget to tell
them they don't need to use the lights and sirens. It's their job. By the
way clean the studio first, they will point out every potential fire
hazard in your studio.
Tim
Tim Stowell Gerard Stowell Pottery
Stacey Gerard 290 River Street
tstwll@juno.com Troy, NY 12180
(518)272-0983 www.trytroy.org/gerard/
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Stuart Ridgway on sun 12 apr 98
Hi Sandra
The essential question is: How much gasoline vapor. Consult a
professional. Call your local fire department and ask them to inspect the
situation. They would much rather prevent fires than fight them! They are
equipped to shoulder the responsibility of estimating the dangers.
Stuart Ridgway
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have an unsual problem that needs to be addressed as quickly as
>possible. HELP! Please!
>I teach a a college in the st Louis area. Directtly behind the
>ceramics lab is a storage area. It seems that amon other things, they
>also store motorcycles. On Tue I walked into the lab and there was a
>strong oder of gasoline. It seems one of the motorcycles had a leak.
>Well this is Thursday and I can still smell gasoline.
>I NEED to fire my two electric kilns SOON, as we have a student show
>coming up in two weeks. We have had kiln problems all semester and I
>am behind as it is.
>The area where the motorcycles are store is directly behind the
>lkilns, there is no firewall, only regular drywall (not fireproofed).
>
>How much danger is there with electric kilns and gas fumes, does the
>presence of an ordor necessicarily mean there are still fumes present.
>
>HELP please------this question NEVER came up in any of my ceramics
>classes.
>Thanks,
>Sandra Burke
>
Gavin Stairs on tue 14 apr 98
Hi Sandra,
The following note is written in the spirit of maximum safety, and minimum
risk. Your local fire people will have better advice.
If the motorcycle area is outside (i.e., well ventilated), and there is a
wall in between, it is highly unlikely that enough gasoline vapor would
accumulate in your studio to ignite. A motorcycle doesn't hold much gas,
and it probably didn't leak dry anyway.
HOWEVER, gasoline vapor is heavy, and settles to the ground. If there is a
flow path (like downhill from the motorcycle to a doorway with a low sill)
to a catchment (like a sunken floor, or a sump), then an accumulation is
possible. To be safe, and to avoid inhaling too much vapor yourself, get a
room fan and blow the room out until you can't smell gasoline any more. If
there is a wind blowing, just open the doors and windows and let it air
out. If there is a sump or a drain in the floor, pay more attention to it:
remove the cover, smell it, blow it out with clean air.
Your local fire prevention people can help you with this. They have
explosion-proof fans, and will be able to reassure you about any remaining
hazard. If you want to do it yourself, start with the fan outside the
door, blowing in, and plug it in from an extension cord which is plugged in
at another room free from gasoline vapor. Do NOT plug or unplug any
appliance, or turn any switches either off or on, in in a room in which a
gasoline vapor concentration is suspected. Only move the fan inside when
the odor of gas is lessened.
If you have already been in the room and have turned on the lights, and are
still here, then there is no gas buildup at the level of the wall switches.
This does NOT mean there is no danger near the floor: gasoline vapor is
heavy, and pools in low areas.
The following is from and MSDS on Gasoline:
Extract begins:
IV. FIRE AND EXPLOSION Back To Table Of Contents
FLASH POINT
-45 F
AUTOIGNITION TEMPERATURE
650 F
FLAMMABLE LIMITS IN AIR (% BY VOL.)
Lower: 1.4
Upper: 7.6
BASIC FIREFIGHTING PROCEDURES
Use dry chemical, foam or carbon dioxide to extinguish fire. Water may be
ineffective as an extinguishing medium, but may be used to cool
fire-exposed containers, structures and to protect personnel. If leak or
spill has not ignited, ventilate area and use water spray to disperse gas
or vapor and to protect personnel attempting to stop leak. Use water to
flush spills away from sources of ignition. DO NOT FLUSH DOWN PUBLIC SEWERS
OR OTHER DRAINAGE SYSTEMS. Exposed firefighters should wear MSHA/NIOSH
approved self-contained breathing apparatus with full face mask and full
protective equipment.
FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS
Dangerous when exposed to heat or flame. Runoff to sewer may cause fire or
explosion hazard. Containers may explode in heat of fire. Irritating or
toxic substances may be emitted upon thermal decomposition.
SPECIAL FIRE HAZARDS
Vapors are heavier than air & may travel along ground and be ignited by
heat, pilot lights and other ignition sources.
Extract ends.
Note that gasoline will be ignited by operating kiln elements (autoignition
temperature above 650F), and by switching arcs (flash point -45F), if the
concentration lies between 1.4 and 7.6% by volume in air (at sea level).
The occupational health limit exposures (chronic) are about 100-300ppm,
depending on exact composition. Gasoline is not an exact compound, but a
mixture somewhat variable according to source.
I don't have the exact numbers, but gasoline is detectable by smell at
concentrations well below 1% by volume. More like 100ppm or less. So the
odor of gasoline is not evidence of an explosion hazard, but it is better
to be safe if there is any possibility that a vapor pool may accumulate.
A cautionary tale: I know a person who was badly burned in a gasoline
explosion. He was working on his car when fumes from the gas tank were
ignited by a wall outlet nearby. He was working in an enclosed garage, and
there was a local source of gas vapor (his open car gas tank). You are
right to be cautious, because the consequences of an accident can be
serious. Nevertheless, the risk is slight if I understand your description.
Hope this is of some help.
Gavin
At 08:48 AM 4/10/98 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have an unsual problem that needs to be addressed as quickly as
>possible. HELP! Please!
>I teach a a college in the st Louis area. Directtly behind the
>ceramics lab is a storage area. It seems that amon other things, they
>also store motorcycles. On Tue I walked into the lab and there was a
>strong oder of gasoline. It seems one of the motorcycles had a leak.
>Well this is Thursday and I can still smell gasoline.
>I NEED to fire my two electric kilns SOON, as we have a student show
>coming up in two weeks. We have had kiln problems all semester and I
>am behind as it is.
>The area where the motorcycles are store is directly behind the
>lkilns, there is no firewall, only regular drywall (not fireproofed).
>
>How much danger is there with electric kilns and gas fumes, does the
>presence of an ordor necessicarily mean there are still fumes present.
>
>HELP please------this question NEVER came up in any of my ceramics
>classes.
>Thanks,
>Sandra Burke
>
>
Gavin Stairs
Toronto, Canada
MRS SANDRA L BURKE on tue 14 apr 98
Stuart,
That Was my question. I had no way of telling, all I knew was that it
burned my eyes and made me sick. The school officials are reluctant
to call the fire department. Probably because they can quess that the
are in violation of a code or two.
Sandra B
Stuart Ridgway on wed 15 apr 98
Sandra
Don't fire the kiln while you smell gas. Gavin's post is valuable
and most instructive, but you must not be burdened with the responsibility
for assuring that the operation of the kiln is safe in the absence of onsite
experienced professional advice, and the authority to make whatever changes
might be necessary in architecture and space utilization.
This is appropiately the responsibility of the school authorities,
and they should be willing and eager to call the fire department, and to fix
the code violations if there are any.
Stuart
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Stuart,
>That Was my question. I had no way of telling, all I knew was that it
>burned my eyes and made me sick. The school officials are reluctant
>to call the fire department. Probably because they can quess that the
>are in violation of a code or two.
>Sandra B
>
MRS SANDRA L BURKE on wed 15 apr 98
No, the motocycle are is not outside, it's a basement type area. No
windows, poor to nonexistant ventilation and there are about 15
motorcyles stored there, not just one or two. there are also no
windows in the ceramics lab and only one door.
pretty scarry stuff.
Sandra B
Gavin Stairs on thu 16 apr 98
Sandra,
I agree with this 100%. I am appalled that the school authorities are
reluctant to call the fire dept. This is unacceptable. The correction of
minor infractions (or major ones, for that matter) is not optional. If
there are deficiencies, they MUST be corrected, and not by you on your own
responsibility. I would have simply called the fire dept. for advice in
the beginning: There is no need to go through the school authorities. Now
that they have been informed and have exhibited reluctance to involve the
fire dept., you are placed in an awkward position. Should you wish to call
the fire dept. in future, you may be called to task for it, which is
unacceptable and DANGEROUS. You should ask for a further meeting with the
school authorities, and clarify this situation. If they are still
obstructing, you should inform them of your intention to call the fire
authorities whenever you think it necessary, as is your civic duty. If you
are uncertain of your own responsibilities, you should contact the fire
authority with jursidiction, and ask them for a clear statement of what you
must do when there is a risk of fire.
This sort of thing is NOT some political game of little consequence. It is
a matter of urgency for the safety of you, your students, and the school
and its neighbours.
End of tirade. Sorry you have been handed this problem, and I hope you
find a way through it without more personal distress.
Gavin
At 08:11 AM 4/15/98 EDT, Stuart wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Sandra
> Don't fire the kiln while you smell gas. Gavin's post is valuable
>and most instructive, but you must not be burdened with the responsibility
>for assuring that the operation of the kiln is safe in the absence of onsite
>experienced professional advice, and the authority to make whatever changes
>might be necessary in architecture and space utilization.
>
> This is appropiately the responsibility of the school authorities,
>and they should be willing and eager to call the fire department, and to fix
>the code violations if there are any.
>
>Stuart
Cindy on thu 16 apr 98
Sandra,
If school authorities refuse to correct the situation or call for an
inspection, you may have to do it. It's a bummer and probably won't make
you a lot of friends, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I used
to work as an RN in a hospital setting and was forced to do this on one
occasion. It's the nurse's job to be a patient advocate but boy can you get
fried for it. It's the administration's job to see to safety issues, but
it's your job, too. A dozen leaky motorcycles in the basement is an
unconscionable fire hazard. If you know about it and do nothing, then you
are leaving yourself open to liability in case of the (very likely, IMO)
event of fire.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels
Custer, SD
USA http://blackhills-info.com/a/cindys/menu.htm
MRS SANDRA L BURKE on fri 17 apr 98
My thanks to all you kind and caring people who responded to my plea
for help with the gas fumes in the ceramics lab.
You will be pleased to know that I have made SOME progress. They have
agreed to revamp the entire ventilation system and they are checking
into purchasing a morgan-type shed to sotre the motocycles in. Yes,
they are still in the basement area adjacent to the cermics lab.
Also they have insturcted the person teaching that class that he is
to properly cool down the motorcycles before brining the in and under
NO circumstances is he to attempt to work on them inside (which is
what happened. they were brought inside with the engines still hot
and then he did some work on the carboraters or some such-causing gas
spillage etc)
I have not fired the kilns as of yet and my students are beginning to
complain. One of the students is president of the student government
association and she has complained loudly to the President. Unhappy
students hits them in the pocket book so I suspect they will move as
fast as a college governing board can, somewhere between a snails
pace and a slow lumber.
We shall see.
Thank-you all once more for all your help and support.
Snadra Burke
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