Url Krueger on tue 20 dec 11
OK, what I'm really interested in is I want
to determine the translucency, slumping
and absorption of various porcelain recipes.
When I look at cone packs after a firing I
see various degrees of bending (slumping),
glassy look or translucency and I could
measure absorption of the cones. So, it
seems like making cones (pyramids)
from each batch might be the way to go.
Anybody know what the standard testing
methods used by industry are for doing this?
And, by the way, why do we call cones cones
and not pyramids?
Thanks.
earl
usa
oregon
hillsboro
John Hesselberth on tue 20 dec 11
On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:38 AM, Url Krueger wrote:
> And, by the way, why do we call cones cones
> and not pyramids?
Hi Earl,
In the article where Seger first described the development/invention of =3D
cones (Title: "Pyrometers and the Measurement of High Temperatures. =3D
Standard Cones") he introduces them by writing "...I have for some time =3D
used tetrahedrons made out of porcelain glazes or feldspar which make =3D
possible a rather accurate control of the same temperature in burning." =3D
He refers to them as tetrahedrons several more times in the early pages =3D
of the article. But in the middle of the article he starts inserting the =
=3D
word "cones". By the last few pages he has substituted the word cones =3D
and uses it almost exclusively at the end of the article.=3D20
I didn't spot anywhere where he explained that transition, though I =3D
admit I didn't read every word. He does say his tetrahedrons were 6 cm =3D
high with a base whose sides were 1 1/2 cm.
And that concludes your ceramic history lesson for the day.
Regards,
John
John Hesselberth
john@frogpondpottery.com
"I love everything that's old: old friends, old times, old manners, old =3D
books, old wines." Oliver Goldsmith, "She Stoops to Conquer" (1773)
Taylor Hendrix on tue 20 dec 11
You could also do bars, Url. Those make nice slumping references and
you can extrude them. Check out the standard references for clay folks
and you'll find descriptions on slumping tests for clay bodies. I seem
to remember one of the textbook style references for clay work had a
section on testing in such a manner. I'm sorry I'm forgetful.
I'm pretty sure I'm not making this stuff up, but I have had a lot of
sugar these last couple of days, so...
I have no idea why they call them cones. Wonder what the German word
was that was used when Mr. Smarty-Pants did his work, oh so long ago.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Url Krueger wrote:
> OK, what I'm really interested in is I want
> to determine the translucency, slumping
> and absorption of various porcelain recipes.
>
> When I look at cone packs after a firing I
> see various degrees of bending (slumping),
> glassy look or translucency and I could
> measure absorption of the cones. =3DC2=3DA0So, it
> seems like making cones (pyramids)
> from each batch might be the way to go.
>
> Anybody know what the standard testing
> methods used by industry are for doing this?
>
> And, by the way, why do we call cones cones
> and not pyramids?
...
logan johnson on tue 20 dec 11
And, by the way, why do we call cones cones
and not pyra=3D
URL Wrote :=3D0A=3D0AAnd, by the way, why do we call cones cones=3D0Aand no=
t pyra=3D
mids?=3D0A=3D0AOOOH ! I have a couple of=3DA0 guesses why :=3D0A=3D0A=3DA0#=
1=3DA0 Pyramid=3D
is too long a word to print on those little boxes .=3D0A=3D0A#2=3DA0=3DA0 =
Since a =3D
pyramid is actually a tomb "they" didn't want to call them something that w=
=3D
ould remind people of death.=3D0A=3D0APersonally, I prefer=3DA0 bars .=3DA0=
=3DA0 It's=3D
always a party when you open the door ! ( kiln lid)=3D0A(o.k. so that's no=
t =3D
the real reason I use bars but it sounds better than=3DA0 'cause I like to =
ma=3D
ke sure I get the same temp every time.) =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AHugs !=3D0ALogan=3D=
0A=3D0A=3DA0=3D
=3D0ALogan Johnson =3D0AAudeo Studios=3D0A=3D0A3930 118th Pl.=3DA0 n.e.=3D0=
A=3D0AMarysvil=3D
le, Wa.=3D0A98271=3D0A(360) 651- 1478=3D0A =3D0A=3DA0www.audeostudios.com=
=3D0A"Carpe Ar=3D
gillam!!"=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A________________________________=3D0A From: Url Kru=
eger lkrueger@GMAIL.COM>=3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG =3D0ASent: Tuesday, De=
cemb=3D
er 20, 2011 8:38 AM=3D0ASubject: Why are cones....well....pyramid shaped?=
=3D0A =3D
=3D0AOK, what I'm really interested in is I want=3D0Ato determine the trans=
luce=3D
ncy, slumping=3D0Aand absorption of various porcelain recipes.=3D0A=3D0AWhe=
n I lo=3D
ok at cone packs after a firing I=3D0Asee various degrees of bending (slump=
in=3D
g),=3D0Aglassy look or translucency and I could=3D0Ameasure absorption of t=
he c=3D
ones.=3DA0 So, it=3D0Aseems like making cones (pyramids)=3D0Afrom each batc=
h migh=3D
t be the way to go.=3D0A=3D0AAnybody know what the standard testing=3D0Amet=
hods u=3D
sed by industry are for doing this?=3D0A=3D0AAnd, by the way, why do we cal=
l co=3D
nes cones=3D0Aand not pyramids?=3D0A=3D0AThanks.=3D0A=3D0Aearl=3D0Ausa=3D0A=
oregon=3D0Ahills=3D
boro
Pottery by John on tue 20 dec 11
From: "John Hesselberth" "He refers to them as tetrahedrons several more
times in the early pages of the article. But in the middle of the article h=
e
starts inserting the word "cones". "
John,
He probably got tired of having to spell out tetrahedron (tetraeder) and
subbed in cone (keger) thinking surely they'll know what I am talking about=
.
The bar (bar) was probably invented by a guy who got tired of spelling
cones.
Or maybe it was the guy translating Seger's words....
John Lowes
Sandy Springs, Georgia
http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/
Steve Mills on tue 20 dec 11
If memory serves me Hamer & Hamer refer to them a Pyroscopes.=3D20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Sent from my iPod
On 20 Dec 2011, at 19:36, logan johnson wrote:
> And, by the way, why do we call cones cones
> and not pyra
> URL Wrote :
>=3D20
> And, by the way, why do we call cones cones
> and not pyramids?
>=3D20
> OOOH ! I have a couple of guesses why :
>=3D20
> #1 Pyramid is too long a word to print on those little boxes .
>=3D20
> #2 Since a pyramid is actually a tomb "they" didn't want to call them s=
o=3D
mething that would remind people of death.
>=3D20
> Personally, I prefer bars . It's always a party when you open the door=
!=3D
( kiln lid)
> (o.k. so that's not the real reason I use bars but it sounds better than =
'=3D
cause I like to make sure I get the same temp every time.)=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Hugs !
> Logan
>=3D20
> =3D20
> Logan Johnson=3D20
> Audeo Studios
>=3D20
> 3930 118th Pl. n.e.
>=3D20
> Marysville, Wa.
> 98271
> (360) 651- 1478
>=3D20
> www.audeostudios.com
> "Carpe Argillam!!"
>=3D20
>=3D20
> ________________________________
> From: Url Krueger
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D20
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 8:38 AM
> Subject: Why are cones....well....pyramid shaped?
>=3D20
> OK, what I'm really interested in is I want
> to determine the translucency, slumping
> and absorption of various porcelain recipes.
>=3D20
> When I look at cone packs after a firing I
> see various degrees of bending (slumping),
> glassy look or translucency and I could
> measure absorption of the cones. So, it
> seems like making cones (pyramids)
> from each batch might be the way to go.
>=3D20
> Anybody know what the standard testing
> methods used by industry are for doing this?
>=3D20
> And, by the way, why do we call cones cones
> and not pyramids?
>=3D20
> Thanks.
>=3D20
> earl
> usa
> oregon
> hillsboro
Mary & Wes Handrow on tue 20 dec 11
Because the gentleman that first started making cones spoke german and the
he thought they looked like bowling pins which in german is kegel which
english speakers corrupted into cone. The shape with the "spine" up
controls how the cone bends as it softens due to heat work. He started at
"cone" 4 which also explains why we have 07, 06 cones etc because they ran
out of whole numbers as the temps. went down into the low ranges.
Paul Lewing on tue 20 dec 11
On Dec 20, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Mary & Wes Handrow wrote:
He started at
"cone" 4 which also explains why we have 07, 06 cones etc because they
ran
out of whole numbers as the temps. went down into the low ranges.
Actually that's not quite right about the lower cone numbers. The
numbers above 0 are determined by the composition on the cone itself.
Seger set the numbers where they are according to the flux unity
analysis method he invented which we still use today. He kept the
stabilizer at 1 and the glassformer at 10, and varied the composition
of the flux. So the composition of a cone 4 cone is 1 part
stabilizer, 10 parts glassformer and 4 parts flux. He got the idea
from feldspar, which is almost exactly 6:1:10. This is why the number
of degrees between adjacent cones varies so much. The cones were made
to these formulas, and then the temperature at which they melted was
measured.
I was once told how the numbering system for the cones below 0 was
determined, but I have forgotten. But I do remember that it also had
to do with the chemical composition of the cone itself.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
www.paullewingart.com
Url Krueger on tue 20 dec 11
On 12/20/2011 01:27 PM, Steve Mills wrote:
> If memory serves me Hamer& Hamer refer to them a Pyroscopes.
Ahhh, pyroscopes. I like that.
On 12/20/2011 02:40 PM, Mary & Wes Handrow wrote:
> The shape with the "spine" up
> controls how the cone bends as it softens due to heat work.
And having a little spine never hurts.
So, I shall make my pyroscopes in the shape of a
tetrahedron ( pyramid with a three sided base ).
Maybe about 5cm tall and 1cm on a side with a
self-standing base (oops, I may be violating
somebodies patent here; Oh just sue me! ).
Off to make the model from which I can make
the mold.
Thanks for your comments.
earl
usa
oregon
hillsboro
North side
West of airport
corner of evergreen & 3rd & wilcox
stop by and see me sometime
douglas fur on sat 31 dec 11
My thought in the past was to have the trial cones and the standard cones
bowing into the middle such that at the end of a fire you might find the
tips inter-fingered and your trial piece between two cones...
DRB
Seola Creek
(hillsboro is where I come from- at least the hospital there...)
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