Gayle Bair on thu 8 sep 11
Since Sairset came up I have a question.
Recently I had to repair some soft brick in my electric kiln and found my
container of Sairset rock hard.
I took a chunk of it and ground it down in a mortar and pestle and added
some crushed soft brick and ITC 100.
It looks good and appears to have worked very well.
Now my question is about the rock hard Sairset.
If I soak it will it reconstitute or is a hammer and the mortar & pestle my
only option at this point.
I figure it settled prior to drying out so taking any chunk may not contain
all the ingredients.
Note I bought it at least 10 years ago and probably only used it once.
--
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 7:40 AM, David Finkelnburg w=
rote:
> The term "seraset" has been posted to the list as the product name for a
> refractory repair material. Just in the interest of clarity and to save
> someone time in the future, the actual name is Sairset, a product which h=
as
> been made and sold by Harbison-Walker (now part of ANH Refractories). It =
is
> described as a wet, high-strength, high-temperature, air-setting mortar,
> mixed for a troweled joint but can be thinned for dipping. It is sodium
> silicate fluxed. Works best in VERY thin application between pieces which
> otherwise fit very well.
>
David Finkelnburg on fri 9 sep 11
Gail,
I have no idea at all. I think you can only try it. I have had Sairset
go hard and, not being as ambitious as you, I tossed it out. However, the
MSDS indicates the flux/cement in Sairset is sodium silicate so it might be
possible. The "air setting" description of it, though, indicates to me some
chemical reaction is taking place that is not reversible. Can you run a tes=
t
and report? I'm curious, now. Thanks!
Dave Finkelnburg
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Gayle Bair wrote:
> Since Sairset came up I have a question.
> Recently I had to repair some soft brick in my electric kiln and found my
> container of Sairset rock hard.
> I took a chunk of it and ground it down in a mortar and pestle and added
> some crushed soft brick and ITC 100.
> It looks good and appears to have worked very well.
> Now my question is about the rock hard Sairset.
> If I soak it will it reconstitute or is a hammer and the mortar & pestle =
my
> only option at this point.
> I figure it settled prior to drying out so taking any chunk may not conta=
in
> all the ingredients.
> Note I bought it at least 10 years ago and probably only used it once.
Gayle Bair on fri 9 sep 11
Thanks everyone for your answers I am now enlightened.
I'll toss the old sairset and get a new smaller container if possible.
Even if the Sairset didn't work the ITC did the job.
The kiln is still cooling but it looked fine after the first post repair
firing.
Thanks again,
Gayle
--
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
Vince Pitelka on fri 9 sep 11
Gayle Bair wrote:
"Now my question is about the rock hard Sairset. If I soak it will it
reconstitute or is a hammer and the mortar & pestle my only option at this
point.
Hi Gayle -
Sairset is an air-setting mortar that develops considerable bonding strengt=
h
after it is exposed to water, and then more bonding strength when it is
fired to temperature. So soaking it is not an option. Generally, when
air-set materials like Portland cement or mortars like Sairset are exposed
to dampness and start to clump up, they are less effective when used for
their intended purpose, even if you grind them back to powder, because some
of the bonding action has already taken place. Sairset is not expensive,
and for most of us the shipping often turns out to be more than the cost of
the material. If you are close to a supplier that has Sairset, that
eliminates the shipping, but regardless of whether you have to have it
shipped, I would not use that old stuff that has hardened.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
James Freeman on fri 9 sep 11
David...
It is my understanding that when the liquid portion of the sodium silicate
solution evaporates, the sodium silicate reacts with air and atmospheric
moisture (and possibly whatever else it may be exposed to), and converts to
silicic acid plus soda ash. If this is true, then I don't think simple
rehydration would be able to reverse the reaction.
For whatever it may be worth.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 9:54 AM, David Finkelnburg w=
rote:
> Gail,
> I have no idea at all. I think you can only try it. I have had Sairset
> go hard and, not being as ambitious as you, I tossed it out. However, th=
e
> MSDS indicates the flux/cement in Sairset is sodium silicate so it might =
be
> possible. The "air setting" description of it, though, indicates to me so=
me
> chemical reaction is taking place that is not reversible. Can you run a
> test
> and report? I'm curious, now. Thanks!
> Dave Finkelnburg
>
>
Vince Pitelka on sat 10 sep 11
Mike Gordon wrote:
"One thing I learned while painting my house, keeping paint from drying out
on the surface, I cut a piece of plastic bag in a circle that fit the
interior of the paint can then sealed the lid. This might work for Sairset
if the liquid is evaporating out of the mix over a period of time."
Hi Mike -
There would be no way for you to know this from the conversation so far, bu=
t
Sairset comes dry. The problem is that it absorbs moisture out of the
atmosphere, and it is pretty difficult to keep it "hermetically-sealed" in
order to prevent that from happening. Like Portland cement, it is one of
those ingredients best used up once it is opened. On the other hand, AP
Green Greenpatch 421 comes as a ready-to-use super-duty refractory patching
mortar, and it is a real problem keeping it moist. Your advice would be
well-taken for keeping Greenpatch useable.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
ivor and olive lewis on sat 10 sep 11
Dear Gayle Bair,
You ask.....If I soak it will it reconstitute or is a hammer and the mortar
& pestle my only option at this point.....
A lot will depend upon the nature of the adhesive compound in this
proprietary product.
If it is related to the Sodium Silicate family of adhesives it might
reconstitute in boiling water. Only thing to do is to trial a small sample.
Regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
Mike Gordon on sat 10 sep 11
One thing I learned while painting my house, keeping paint from drying
out on the surface, I cut a piece of plastic bag
in a circle that fit the interior of the paint can then sealed the lid.
This might work for Sairset if the liquid is evaporating out of the mix
over a period if time. Mike Gordon
Vince Pitelka on sun 11 sep 11
Michael Wendt wrote:
"The Sairset I bought from AP Green at Troy Idaho was premixed wet in
original AP Green 2.5 Gallon pails, just like Greenpatch. I still have the
bucket (now long dried out). Later I have bought small quantities from the
Clay Art Center in Tacoma and Seattle Pottery Supply and it was also wet. =
I
have never seen it supplied dry.
Where do you get the dry version?"
Hi Michael -
We have always bought our Sairset and Greenpatch from the AP Green dealer i=
n
Knoxville, TN. Even though they are now part of ANH, I think that they
still go by Harbison-Walker Refractories. I did not realize that Sairset
was available wet in pails. I would not buy refractory supplies from a cla=
y
suppliers because they sell them in such small quantities. You would get a
much better price from an industrial refractory supplier.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Michael Wendt on sun 11 sep 11
The Sairset I bought from AP Green at Troy Idaho
was premixed wet in original AP Green 2.5 Gallon
pails, just like Greenpatch.
I still have the bucket (now long dried out).
Later I have bought small quantities from\
the Clay Art Center in Tacoma and Seattle
Pottery Supply and it was also wet.
I have never seen it supplied dry.
Where do you get the dry version?
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Vince wrote:
Mike Gordon wrote:
"One thing I learned while painting my house, keeping paint
from drying out
on the surface, I cut a piece of plastic bag in a circle
that fit the
interior of the paint can then sealed the lid. This might
work for Sairset
if the liquid is evaporating out of the mix over a period of
time."
Hi Mike -
There would be no way for you to know this from the
conversation so far, but
Sairset comes dry. The problem is that it absorbs moisture
out of the
atmosphere, and it is pretty difficult to keep it
"hermetically-sealed" in
order to prevent that from happening. Like Portland cement,
it is one of
those ingredients best used up once it is opened. On the
other hand, AP
Green Greenpatch 421 comes as a ready-to-use super-duty
refractory patching
mortar, and it is a real problem keeping it moist. Your
advice would be
well-taken for keeping Greenpatch useable.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
John Britt on mon 12 sep 11
My sariset was wet too,
John Britt
marci Boskie's Mama =3D^..^=3D on mon 12 sep 11
>Vince said:
>There would be no way for you to know this from the conversation so far, b=
ut
>Sairset comes dry. The problem is that it absorbs moisture out of the
>atmosphere, and it is pretty difficult to keep it "hermetically-sealed" in
>order to prevent that from happening.
It may not be worth the effort, but I wonder if one of those food
saver things would work if you could get one really cheap off of
Ebay . You know.....the ones where you heat seal in plastic and then
use the vacuum attachment to suck out the air...
Marci the chinapainter
Snail Scott on tue 13 sep 11
In my experience, Sairset was wet; Sairbond was
the dry powered version. Not the same formula,
of course. I liked the Sairbond - handy to have it
around as dry, available at need.
-Snail
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