AElena4234 on fri 23 jan 98
Hi All,
I have heard mention of a dulling spray or film to put on glossy pots for
photographic purposes. Is there such an animal? We try to photograph our
pots and even with indirect lights and soft boxes we still get the shiny light
spot. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Ann Elena
C Redding on sat 24 jan 98
Ann--I'm not a professional photographer, nor do I pretend to be, but for
the past couple of years I've been photographing slides for myseft and
several other people. What I do is set up approx. waist high box and run
a cloth (dark and ironed for no seams) from a higher box so there isn't
that annoying ground line...then, to solve the shiny light on pot problem
(I set up this contraption near a window for natural light), I put a thin,
(silky?) white piece of fabric over the window to diffuse the light...make
the reflection less harsh. Thus far, my slides have turned out very nice.
That's my two cents. :)
cookie
On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, AElena4234 wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hi All,
>
> I have heard mention of a dulling spray or film to put on glossy pots for
> photographic purposes. Is there such an animal? We try to photograph our
> pots and even with indirect lights and soft boxes we still get the shiny light
> spot. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Ann Elena
>
the Gallagher's on sat 24 jan 98
Hi,
In theatre, to keep props from glaring under stage lights and to frost up
mirrors, we use "hair spray".
Michelle
In Oregon
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi All,
I have heard mention of a dulling spray or film to put on glossy pots for
photographic purposes. Is there such an animal? We try to photograph our
pots and even with indirect lights and soft boxes we still get the shiny light
spot. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Ann Elena
Dannon Rhudy on sat 24 jan 98
The Krylon company makes Dulling Spray. It is an easy one to
remove, just wipes off ceramic surfaces(some sprays are quite
difficult).
I have found it in the past at some paint stores, KMart used to
have it, but many places that carry Krylon products don't stock
it, small market for it. If you don't find it, probably Krylon
has an 800-number.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Hi All,
I have heard mention of a dulling spray or film to put on glossy
pots for
photographic purposes. Is there such an animal? We try to
photograph our
pots and even with indirect lights and soft boxes we still get the
shiny light
spot. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Ann Elena
Tim Knapp on sat 24 jan 98
------------------
Ann,
I used a couple of different types of dulling sprays when I worked on films.
You can contact the following companies for more information:
Wholesale Supply Company
Box 38796
1005 Lillian Way
Hollywood, CA 90038
Phone: 213-467-6400
FAX: 213-466-5712
Superior Specialist, Inc.
Phone: 414-830-5055 / 800-666-2545
Fax: 800-666-506
One brand that comes to mind was K-Line Dulling Spray, it comes off with any
solvent that will remove wax and a old rag. I pick up most of my supplies =
from
Wholesale Supply Company (since they are close enough to drive to).
Tim Knapp
Orange, CA
theatrix=40worldnet.att.net
or
timk=40iwmd.co.orange.ca.us
=3E=3E=3E AElena4234 =3CAElena4234=40aol.com=3E 01/23 4:56 AM =3E=3E=3E
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi All,
I have heard mention of a dulling spray or film to put on glossy pots for
photographic purposes. Is there such an animal? We try to photograph our
pots and even with indirect lights and soft boxes we still get the shiny =
light
spot. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Ann Elena =3CAElena4234=40aol.com=3E
LMarsh1220 on sat 24 jan 98
Yes It's called dulling spray and you can get it at any large photo house.
However i've tried it with a professional photographer with little sucess.
It's a spray that puts a dull gray finish on the pot and without the right
filters on the lights nothing seems to do much good . Those bright spots on a
gloss glaze have been impossible for me to eliminate. The best I have been
able to do is " hide" them in a handle or some other texture . They aren't
quite so prominate there.
good luck
Lee Marshall
Visiting in chicago and confirming my reasons for moving to Tennessee
John Hesselberth on sun 25 jan 98
Dannon is right. I couldn't find the name when I first responded but
since have found that Dulling Spray is carried by Porters Camera Store in
Iowa--a big mail order house. It is 7.95 a can. Call them on
1-800-553-2001 from the 50 states.
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>The Krylon company makes Dulling Spray. It is an easy one to
>remove, just wipes off ceramic surfaces(some sprays are quite
>difficult).
>I have found it in the past at some paint stores, KMart used to
>have it, but many places that carry Krylon products don't stock
>it, small market for it. If you don't find it, probably Krylon
>has an 800-number.
>
>Dannon Rhudy
>potter@koyote.com
>
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>Hi All,
>
>I have heard mention of a dulling spray or film to put on glossy
>pots for
>photographic purposes. Is there such an animal? We try to
>photograph our
>pots and even with indirect lights and soft boxes we still get the
>shiny light
>spot. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Ann Elena
John Hesselberth
Frog Pond Pottery
Pocopson, PA USA
EMail: john@frogpondpottery.com
visit my web site at http://www.frogpondpottery.com
Akitajin \"Lee Love\" on sun 25 jan 98
-----Original Message-----
From: AElena4234
> We try to photograph our pots and even with indirect lights and
> soft boxes we still get the shiny light spot. Any help in this matter
> would be greatly appreciated.
Two things are a sure answer: Matt glazes and Photoshop. :^)
I just had some slides made of work that is going to be in a show in Japan
in spring. Temmoku is a difficult glaze and bulbous shapes are too.
One thing the photographer did (Peter Lee 612 788-2143) with a large shiney,
round Shino jar, was to light it more like portrait photography: You
light one side of the pot and have it dark behind the lighted side and then
light the background behind the shadowed side of the pot. Pretty dramatic.
Peter Lee is willing to work by mail with
craftspeople. His prices are real reasonable. He is in Minneapolis.
/(o\' Lee In Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
\o)/' mailto:Ikiru@Kami.com ' http://www.millcomm.com/~leelove/ikiru.html
/(o\' Lee In Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
\o)/' mailto:Ikiru@Kami.com ' http://www.millcomm.com/~leelove/ikiru.html
Vince Pitelka on sun 25 jan 98
This comes up periodically on Clayart. There has been some mention of
dulling sprays. Be very careful in their use for several reasons. First,
you do not want to alter the surface texture of your work. And second, you
do not want to eliminate all highlights and reflections. Glazed wares are
reflective, and if you entirely eliminate that reflectivity, you in essence
kill the impact of your work. In jurying shows, I am appalled at the number
of slide entries which are otherwise well photographed, obviously with best
intentions, but the work has been completely deadened, neutralized, by
eliminating all highlights and reflections. The idea behind softboxes and
umbrella systems is to diffuse the light so that the reflections are not
overpowering. But if you do not use proper reflective cards or secondary
spots to bring out some highlights and subtle reflections, you cannot expect
to make quality slides. I have always felt that dulling sprays are a poor
device to reduce reflectivity. Better to deal with the light source.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
James Houck on sun 25 jan 98
re: dulling sprays
I'm sort of a "half-lurker" and not really a potter (yet) but I used to
work for a photographer and one of our clients was a lamp mfr. We used
aerosol anti-perspirant on the lamps as a dulling spray and it worked
great! (Not to mention that it solved the problem of those pesky
sweating lamps!)
Claudia in SC
Tom Wirt on mon 26 jan 98
A couple of notes...Dulling spray will kill most of the reflection, but
will also kill the detail. It is used mostly on mirrors so you can't see
the studio.
Porters Camera also has a shaded background that taks the place of the
long seamless paper that the pro's use. You can shoot on a 2' wide table
top and still get the nice white foreground fading into the black
background. Porters also has all the lights you'll ever need.
Peter Lee....You can see excellent examples of his work in the MacKenzie
book by David Lewis.
Tom Wirt
Clay Coyote Pottery
Hutchinson, MN
claypot@hutchtel.net
DIANA PANCIOLI, ASSOC. PROF. on tue 27 jan 98
We have used dry deodorant sticks too. A little rubbed on dims but does
not eliminate hot spots.
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, James Houck wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> re: dulling sprays
> I'm sort of a "half-lurker" and not really a potter (yet) but I used to
> work for a photographer and one of our clients was a lamp mfr. We used
> aerosol anti-perspirant on the lamps as a dulling spray and it worked
> great! (Not to mention that it solved the problem of those pesky
> sweating lamps!)
>
> Claudia in SC
>
Pam Sadow on thu 24 sep 98
Hello, I am an amature photographer and I was browsing the web yesterday for
photography topics. I came across the archives for potters.org discussions.
You have a techniques/photography section on there that I found interesting.
I would like to respond to one of the discussions that was going on there back
in January of this year.
Several people were discussing the difficulties of photographing high-glaze
items. They were concerned with the "hot spots" that light reflecting off of
the piece caused. Many people mentioned a dulling spray that they had tried.
However, I didn't see anyone at all refer to trying a "polarizer" filter on the
camera lens. I have had extremely good luck with a polarizer on getting the
glare off of sunlit water and windows. I have a friend who does body-castings
of people and in a few weeks I will be trying the polarizer approach to
photographing one of their glossy items. I'll explain more fully what I mean
and/or give an update on my success (or failure) if anyone is interested. Also
if any of you have tried this, I'd like to know your results.
I'll subscribe to the clayart list for a week or so in case anyone is
interested in this topic. After that, you'll need to email me to discuss it.
Thank you!
Pam Sadow
klauzer jessica a on fri 25 sep 98
The subject of using a polarized lens to cut glare in slides of work came
up in class the other night. It works well if you put polarizing filters
over the lights you are using as well as on the camera lens --
so if you only have one on the lens the glare cuttage would be split in
half?? It is said by those who seem like they know what they are
talking about that you can buy polarizing film in big
squares and fashion your own filtersso you can mount them in front of
your
lights (not too close, right??) I think they are sold all ready to go
at camera
stores if you wanna pay more. This was in regards to making slides of a
really glossy painting, but I'm sure that it will work for glaze too . . .
ah, how i love the hours and hours spent in a hot little room in the dark
taking
pictures of pieces that seem like ancient history . . .
jessica
Paul Lewing on sat 26 sep 98
Pam,
I have tried sa polarizing filter, and find it useful for controlling
glare in slides. However, I'm never quite sure about the exposure
settings. Is it one f-stop that you have to open it up? And that's a
lower number for the f-stop reading, right? And can I trust my
through-the-lens meter when I have the filter on? I use a hand-held
meter also to check that the lighting is the same all over a tile
installation. How do I compensate?
Thanks, Paul Lewing, Seatle
Philip Davenport on sun 27 sep 98
Pam:
In response to your questions about correcting the exposure for a
polarizing filter-- if you take a meter reading with the built in meter
in your camera it is reading the light AFTER it has passed through the
filter thus if the light has been reduced then the meter will give you a
f/stop and shutter combination for that amount of light. If you are
using a hand held meter then I would suggets that you do the BRACKETING
TECHNIQUE. This technique is simple and assures that you will get the
correct exposure for any lighting situation.
To bracket, do the following--
1. Take the meter reading and select the suhtter speed and f/stop you
plan to use. Take the picture.
2. Open up one stop or slow the shutter speed by one number. Take the
picture.
3. Open up one more stop or slow the shutter by one more number. Take
the picture. .
You have just taken 3 pictures with each exposure more light that the
previous shot. If you are using a filter then one out of the three
shots will be the correct exposure. Keep acurate records and you will
soon know exactly how much to compensate for the filter factor.
Actually each filter will come with a given filter factor and you can
automatically compensate for it. The polarizer filter is different
because you have to rotate the filter on the camera and as it rotates
the amount of light that is decreased will vary.
A good way to understand f/stops is to think of fraction-- the larger
the number the smaller the portion-- this is also true for the amount of
light that is passing through the lens. f/2 will let more light pass
through the lens than f/16.
I hope this will help anyone that read this.
Phil Davenport
Philip Davenport on sun 27 sep 98
Clayart subscribers:
In response to using polarizing filters-- the filters will reduce the
amount of light entering the camera (this is called the filter factor)
which could lead to underexposed slides unless the filter factor
correction is made. You should also use a 18% gray card when taking a
meter reading. The 18% gray card is a standard for the photography
industry and will help in getting the correct exposure.
Another way of decreasing the hot spot effects of light hitting a glossy
surface would be the placement of the lights. If the lights are placed
at a 45 degree angle to the surface the reflactions will be reduced if
not completely eliminated.
Good luck with your picture taking.
Phil Davenport
Garland, Texas
Tom Wirt on sun 27 sep 98
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
The subject of using a polarized lens to cut glare in slides of work came
up in class the other night. It works well if you put polarizing filters
over the lights you are using as well as on the camera lens --
so if you only have one on the lens the glare cuttage would be split in
half?? It is said by those who seem like they know what they are
talking about that you can buy polarizing film in big
>>The comment about having to polarize the light source is right. Normal
Tungsten or strobe light is not polarized. Putting a polarizing filter over the
lens will do nothing but cut the light going to the lens by about 2 f-stops.
The glare is not affected at all. It just appears cut because there's less
light.
The only way to cut glare and hold sharpness is to use some sort of
diffuser....either passing light through a translucent material or bouncing off
an umbrella or board. Be sure also that the color of the translucent material
or bounce material is pure white. If the color is off, it will tone the light
and throw you're color balance off. You can however balance this out with
filters. Take a series of slides with your proposed light source and setup.
Buy a few filters and shoot a roll using careful notes as to exposure and
filtering. Then PROJECT the slide to a white screen and compare. You'll see
amazing differences even in what appear to be great slides. Look mainly at the
white areas to see what's wrong with your color balance.
Do NOT use the dulling sprays. They destroy sharpness and detail. Kurt Wild
set up a nifty permanent photo booth in about a a 4 foot square area. Table
top with seamless background. Tented with white fabric. All he has to do is
set the lights up outside the tenting and shoot. Standardizing the lighting and
focussing makes it easy to shoot a piece as it comes out. Something many of us
wish we did.
Tom Wirt
Clay Coyote Pottery
17614 240th St.
Hutchinson, MN 55350
320-587-2599
claypot@hutchtel.net
Ernesto Burciaga on mon 28 sep 98
Photogs!!!!!!!
Exposure meters, in camera or hand held are usually calibrated to 18%
gray or middle gray. If you expose a white area, the meter will give
you an exopsure that will cause the white area to be printed gray.
What you do is get a gray card at most any camera store and place the
card in the scene. Take your meter reading from that card. Remove the
card and take the picture. Chrome film looks better under exposed
about 1/2 stop. Also brackiting works. Say your gray card metered
exposure says f8 at 125 sec. Take three exposured for "insurance".
f5.6 and 1/2, f8, and f8 and 1/2. With practice, like any art form,
you should get good in time.
For me film is cheap???? Try calling B&H photo to order film. They
have one of the best reputations in the industry and the best prices
on all sorts of things photo etc. I buy my film 40 rolls at a time.
(It only hurts once) Also I have bought cameras, lens and all sorts
of equiptment. Never a problem and the stuff gets here fast.
B&H 1-212-444-6600
1-800-974-7088
Call and ask for their photo catalog and dream, lust on.
Ernesto Burciaga
Gavin Stairs on mon 28 sep 98
Hi All,
A long time ago, I used to be a photographer. I used polarizing filters to
cut glare in studio setups and in the field. They work well: some effects
are just impossible without them.
The reason a single filter on the lens works is that specular reflections
off non-metallic surfaces, such as glass or glaze, become partially
polarized at right angles to the plane of reflection. This means that you
can get rid of (or reduce, anyway) the reflections from one light in your
lighting setup with one filter on the camera lens. You just rotate the
filter until the light seems to go away most, and there you are.
The trouble is that any other lights in your setup will still be reflecting
almost as much as without the filter. That's because the angle the plane
they are polarized in makes with the polarizer on the lens will be
different. You can rotate the filter and see the lights dim and then
brighten again as you go, all at different angles.
The solution is to polarize the lights. Then you do the trick with the key
light, and then go around to the others and rotate the polarizers so that
they also dim the most in your camera viewfinder.
There are several limitations. First, the polarizers are plastic, and you
have to be careful not to melt them. Second, you can't use diffusers in
front of the polarizers, so if you are using a big, soft panel or
reflector, you need an awfully large polarizer. However, if the diffusion
is only slight, some of the effect will survive, so you can experiment.
Also, the technique is easiest to work if you have an assistant to rotate
polarizers while you look in the viewfinder.
As to exposure, there are two techniques: First, be aware that rule of
thumb exposure reduction is only approximate, since you are killing
specular light which will show up in the unfiltered light reading. What
the rule of thumb does is account for the neutral density light reduction
of the filter, not its polarizing reduction. So, you can take exposure
readings through-the-lens, which is possible with most modern SLRs, or you
can hold the filter in front of the hand held light meter, at the same
angle as the effect you want in the camera (very important) and take the
readings from the camera position. This can be very effective using a
small angle spot meter, since you can look through the viewfinder and
verify that the effect is the same, but it's a bit more difficult to do
with a wide angle or integrating meter. On the whole, it's probably better
to trust the through-the-lens camera meter.
If you are taking a lot of pictures of pots with the same set-up, you can
do this rigmarole once for all time, and then simply check the exposure
from time to time to spot dim bulbs and so forth. If you want to do this,
you have to carefully mark the setup and reproduce it accurately, including
the angle of the polarizers on each light, and the one on the camera, and
all the positions and light angles. In general this is useful only when
the objects being photographed are quite similar, and you can leave the
setup in place between pots.
Gavin
===============================================
Gavin Stairs
Stairs Small Systems
921 College Street, # 1-A
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M6H 1A1
Andrew Lentini on mon 28 sep 98
i don't know if it's been mentioned but another way of reducing hot spots on
slides is to spray a little hair spray on your pots just before taking the
shots. the spray acts as a matting agent on the surface diffusing the light
coming from the bulbs. try it! it's cheap and may yield the results you
want.
Andrew Lentini, Savannah, GA
Paul Lewing on tue 29 sep 98
Philip Davenport wrote:
>
You should also use a 18% gray card when taking a
> meter reading. The 18% gray card is a standard for the photography
> industry and will help in getting the correct exposure.
I was just photographing a kitchen backsplash tile job last week, and
I'll give you another tip about correctly using the gray card, and
this is from personal experience. When you've used the card and your
hand-held meter to get the exposure the same all over the tile piece,
and you've laid it down on the stove to stand back and take a look at
the whole thing, MOVE THE CARD BEFORE YOU SNAP THE PICTURES! If I'd
done this sooner, I could have sent this in for the "Boneheaded
Mistakes" thread.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
John Hesselberth on thu 1 oct 98
Here's another view on hot spots, lighting and my version of keeping it
simple. 1 softened (as opposed to harsh) hot spot often adds life to a
photo of a pot and, in my opinion, is even desirable. What is not
desirable are multiple hot spots or harsh hot spots. I don't use
polarizing filters over lens or light source(s). I do use one and only
one light source in the form of a strobe inside a $15 home made soft box.
The single light source normally results in one or no hot spots
depending on the glaze and the pot shape. The soft box softens that
single hot spot to a desirable level. I place the light over and
slightly to the left or right of the pot and inbetween pot and camera.
This puts the shadow mostly in the rear. I didn't get the results I
wanted until I got it down to this simple approach. Multiple lights, in
my view, only adds unneeded complexity for about 90% of the pots we need
to photograph. I have only had one unsolvable hot spot/reflection
problem out of many, many pots I have photographed with this setup over
the last year. I resorted to dulling spray for that pot and I agree with
others that dulling spray is a last resort. It can take the life out of
a pot very quickly and should be used only with the greatest of caution.
By the way, I don't use an exposure meter either. I run an exposure
series one time, pick the best and always use the same setup. Results
are very consistent. Keeping it simple is the key for me. At the very
least, if you are just starting to photograph pots, I recommend starting
as simplly as is described above and only add more equipment,lights, etc.
if you can't get the results you want.
John Hesselberth
Frog Pond Pottery
Pocopson, PA 19366 USA
EMail: john@frogpondpottery.com web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and
hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless
series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken, 1925
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