Michael Wendt on thu 4 feb 10
Randall,
I have Rapidograph pens but found the hypodermic needles
ground off square at the end work very well, come in various
diameters and are easy to fill from above using an ear bulb
syringe you get in the baby section of the store.
You will need the medium to be the correct consistency and I
found angling the syringe slightly pulled the fluid out
evenly producing very fine, dense lines.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Randall Moody on thu 4 feb 10
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 6:58 PM, gayle bair wrote:
> Hi randall,
> I used those pens while in college and they were notorious for clogging o=
n
> paper.
> Now I graduated college in 67' but unless they have drastically changed t=
he
> design/ink etc. I'd
> say use something else. I looked at them online and I'm not seeing much
> difference.
> That said buy one (I think I saw one for $18) and try it.... and do let m=
e
> know if it's successful.
> good luck...
> BTW I made some elk hair brushes because I couldn't find a brush that gav=
e
> me the thin line I wanted... you could do the same.
>
>
Thanks to all on this. My wife has some left over somewhere from her days i=
n
Architecture school. I will let the list know how it turns out. The trick t=
o
the as far as ink goes is to clean them regularly and use them on mylar
rather than paper. These are the newer design rather than the very old ones
that my dad would fuss at me about using.
--
Randall in Atlanta
Randall Moody on thu 4 feb 10
I was wondering if anyone has used Rapidograph type pens for underglaze
decoration and if so do they have any tips on the use of them. I am looking
at using probably a .7 or 1.0 mm due to the obvious issue of clogging.
Basically I am looking for a steady fine(ish) line but I don't want to use =
a
brush. I have looked at the "Potters' Pen" but the line weight is too heavy
and the tend to spread more than I like.
--
Randall in Atlanta
David Hendley on thu 4 feb 10
With vivid 30-year-old memories of trying to use clogged
Rapidograph pens, it seems like trying to use one with
ceramic materials would be fraught with frustration and one
would spend more time cleaning than decorating.
When I want a fine line, I use hypodermic needles, either
with small plastic bottles or syringes. I do this all the time
(take a look at my website and you will see lots of pots with
random, fine-line decoration). The needles give much better
control and a finer line than a "Potters' Pen".
For me, the optimum size of needle, for the finest line without
an unreasonable amount of clogging and cleaning, is 20 gauge.
This is an inside diameter of .0238 inch or .6 mm.
I cut the needles down to about 1/2 long with a grinding wheel.
I use bits of old guitar strings (the high E, or smallest string)
to insert in the needles to clean them, and also have a spray
bottle handy, to shoot a shot of water directly into the needle
when required.
After a decorating session, I shoot several shots of water
through the needles, into the bottles. This cleans the needles,
and the excess water keeps the materials from drying out. Then
the excess is emptied in preparation for the next use.
Alternately, the syringe is emptied and a couple of syringe-fulls
of plain water is run through.
I purposely formulated my overglaze recipe to use not a lot
of clay, as I think drying clay is the most troublesome material
for clogging the needles. If a high-clay slip is being used, I think
the best course would be to empty and clean everything after
each use.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
>I was wondering if anyone has used Rapidograph type pens for underglaze
> decoration and if so do they have any tips on the use of them. I am
> looking
> at using probably a .7 or 1.0 mm due to the obvious issue of clogging.
> Basically I am looking for a steady fine(ish) line but I don't want to us=
e
> a
> brush. I have looked at the "Potters' Pen" but the line weight is too
> heavy
> and the tend to spread more than I like.
Lis Allison on thu 4 feb 10
On Thursday 04 February 2010, you wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone has used Rapidograph type pens for underglaze
> decoration and if so do they have any tips on the use of them. I am
> looking at using probably a .7 or 1.0 mm due to the obvious issue of
> clogging. Basically I am looking for a steady fine(ish) line but I
> don't want to use a brush. I have looked at the "Potters' Pen" but the
> line weight is too heavy and the tend to spread more than I like.
>
I haven't tried a Rappie because I think it would clog immediately, but I
have used an old-fashioned nib pen in an attempt to get a sharp thin line.
I was trying to get a black line though and didn't find any stain or oxide
mix that went on thick enough to be black. If it was the narrow line I
wanted there wasn't enough stain to fire up good and black, and if there
was enough stain, the line wasn't narrow enough. This was cone6, though,
maybe lower fire would work better. Porcelain painters get a lovely thin
black line with the nib pens, but that is fired much lower.
One potter in my area scraffito's (is that a word?) a thin line on the
greenware, fills it with black slip, scrubs the excess off, then bisques.
Then he does his colour work, including re-applying the black over the
carved lines with a brush, then he dips the pieces into a clear glaze and
fires them, I think to cone10. Beautiful, but oh-so-time-consuming.
I, too would love a solution!
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
www.Pine-Ridge-Studio.blogspot.com
Nancy Spinella on fri 5 feb 10
I love the idea of using a hypodermic needle for a fine line, but how do yo=
u
get a hold of one??
A friend of mine wanted a needle to inject her Thanksgiving turkey with rum
or some such spirit, and had a hard time convincing people that she wasn't =
a
drug addict ("The turkey's the junkie, not me!").
--"All my addictions are legal" Nancy
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:01 PM, David Hendley wrote:
> With vivid 30-year-old memories of trying to use clogged
> Rapidograph pens, it seems like trying to use one with
> ceramic materials would be fraught with frustration and one
> would spend more time cleaning than decorating.
>
> When I want a fine line, I use hypodermic needles, either
> with small plastic bottles or syringes. I do this all the time
> (take a look at my website and you will see lots of pots with
> random, fine-line decoration). The needles give much better
> control and a finer line than a "Potters' Pen".
>
> For me, the optimum size of needle, for the finest line without
> an unreasonable amount of clogging and cleaning, is 20 gauge.
> This is an inside diameter of .0238 inch or .6 mm.
> I cut the needles down to about 1/2 long with a grinding wheel.
> I use bits of old guitar strings (the high E, or smallest string)
> to insert in the needles to clean them, and also have a spray
> bottle handy, to shoot a shot of water directly into the needle
> when required.
>
> After a decorating session, I shoot several shots of water
> through the needles, into the bottles. This cleans the needles,
> and the excess water keeps the materials from drying out. Then
> the excess is emptied in preparation for the next use.
> Alternately, the syringe is emptied and a couple of syringe-fulls
> of plain water is run through.
>
> I purposely formulated my overglaze recipe to use not a lot
> of clay, as I think drying clay is the most troublesome material
> for clogging the needles. If a high-clay slip is being used, I think
> the best course would be to empty and clean everything after
> each use.
>
> David Hendley
> david@farmpots.com
> http://www.farmpots.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> I was wondering if anyone has used Rapidograph type pens for underglaze
>> decoration and if so do they have any tips on the use of them. I am
>> looking
>> at using probably a .7 or 1.0 mm due to the obvious issue of clogging.
>> Basically I am looking for a steady fine(ish) line but I don't want to u=
se
>> a
>> brush. I have looked at the "Potters' Pen" but the line weight is too
>> heavy
>> and the tend to spread more than I like.
>>
>
Nancy Spinella on fri 5 feb 10
Wayne, David, and James -- Thanks! I would never have thought to look at a
Tractor Supply -- and here in central PA, we're lousy with the things. :)
Thanks again!
--Nancy, in the boonies
James Freeman on fri 5 feb 10
On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Nancy Spinella wrote:
I love the idea of using a hypodermic needle for a fine line, but how do yo=
u
get a hold of one??
A friend of mine wanted a needle to inject her Thanksgiving turkey with rum
or some such spirit, and had a hard time convincing people that she wasn't =
a
drug addict ("The turkey's the junkie, not me!").
Nancy...
You can buy hypodermic needles, and also the huge syringes for line blendin=
g
glazes, at any farm supply store. The needles go from 22 gauge up to reall=
y
fat, painful looking things. They are sitting right out in the open, and
nobody gives you a dirty look! I bought mine at Tractor Supply. If there
is no store near you, you can buy them online at
http://www.tractorsupply.com/livestock/livestock-veterinary-supplies/veteri=
nary-syringes/?currentPage=3D2.
Lots of cool, weird stuff at Tractor Supply. A fun place to browse.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
Phoenix Rising Farm on fri 5 feb 10
One can easily buy hypodermic needles.
Most farm feed supply stores carry them for injecting cattle, etc.
You can buy them over the counter, or from a number of sources online.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
eastern Maine
On 2/5/2010 8:09 AM, Nancy Spinella wrote:
> I love the idea of using a hypodermic needle for a fine line, but how do =
you
> get a hold of one??
>
David Hendley on fri 5 feb 10
----- Original Message -----
>I love the idea of using a hypodermic needle for a fine line, but how do
>you
> get a hold of one??
Buy hypodermic needles and syringes at a farm supply store. At least
around here, lots of people give injections to their pets and/or livestock.
My vet, who knows me, sold me a box of needles at his cost - cheaper
than buying them one at a time at the store.
Be sure, first thing, when you use one, to get rid of the sharp point.
They are very sharp, and accidental injections of undergalze are
not healthy.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
Rimas VisGirda on fri 5 feb 10
I have used Rapidographs in the past, I found it's necessary to empty and c=
lean them after each session. I later switched to a WRICO "pen" -maybe from=
Germany? It has a pretty big barrel and completely dis-assembles for easy =
cleaning. Comes with interchangeable tips and associated needles. Currently=
I'm using Kemper gold pens, come in 2 sizes, which are quick and easy to f=
ill as well as clean. The only drawback to the Kemper's is that the barrel =
doesn't hold much fluid so you have to fill it periodically if you are doin=
g a LOT of line work. I use primarily black china paint and luster in the p=
ens although I have also used underglaze. China paint is loaded with pigmen=
t and is made to go on very thin so I get a very black line. Luster is lust=
er and also applied very thin. With underglaze, sometimes the line gets fai=
nt as the amount of pigment is not always a strong concentration; For exam=
ple I found that AMACO's LUG 1 Black apparently has more black stain
than their Velvet blacks. I find it's very important to screen the fluids =
that I use, except for luster which doesn't have any "lumps." I strain my c=
hina paint through a 285 mesh piece of silk screen fabric into a small cont=
ainer which I then reserve for the pen work. I bought some janting (sp?) pe=
ns used for batiking, similar to Kemper pens in design and MUCH cheaper, bu=
t haven't got around to trying them yet. I also like someones idea of hypod=
ermic needles... -Rimas
Philip Poburka on fri 5 feb 10
Hi Nancy,
Hypodermic Needles and Syringes may be had on e-bay...internet or other mai=
l
Order Veterinarian-home-pet-care related Supply...Farm and Feed
Stores...neighborhood home-health-care supply places...friendly MD,
Med-tec...Laboratory Supply, etc.
Though of course there are many sizes/diameters.
Very small sizes of Catheters ( of the kind intended to socket onto a
Syringe ) would work for this I'd imagine, though these of course are fairl=
y
soft. But they loose their flexibility/softness over time with exposure to
UV and ambient Air, and become more like a 'Gumby'.
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Spinella"
>I love the idea of using a hypodermic needle for a fine line, but how do
>you
> get a hold of one??
>
> A friend of mine wanted a needle to inject her Thanksgiving turkey with
> rum
> or some such spirit, and had a hard time convincing people that she wasn'=
t
> a
> drug addict ("The turkey's the junkie, not me!").
>
> --"All my addictions are legal" Nancy
Russel Fouts on sat 6 feb 10
Ra Ra RaPIdo Ra PI do (sorry, couldn't resist)
I've had very good luck with small squeeze bottles and needles from =3D
Howard Electronic Instruments Inc. They have LOTS of different size =3D
needles and little bottles to fit them.=3D20
http://www.howardelectronics.com/jensen/products.html
It's true that the consistency of the medium is important for flow and =3D
control.
They will also ship abroad.
Russel
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
http://www.mypots.com
Home of "The Potters Portal"
Over 3000 Pottery Related Links!
Updated infrequently
"Look, it's my misery that I have to paint this kind of painting, it's =3D
your misery that you have to love it, and the price of the misery is =3D
thirteen hundred and fifty dollars. "
- Mark Rothko, In Art/Painting
Elizabeth Priddy on sat 6 feb 10
There is no need to rig this. They make a bottle that has tips that leave =
a fine line using underglaze.
http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayProductPage?productNum=3Dcp0278&c=
hannelid=3D
Don't have needles in your studio because some people are stupid and horse =
around with things like that. That is the real reason. Another is that de=
pressing a plunger as you draw is very difficult.
The bottle holds in your palm and you squeeze and write as you go. It cost=
s about $5 and the tips are comparable to rapidograph width.
- ePriddy
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
Michael Wendt on sun 7 feb 10
To use the hypodermic needles for drawing, I remove the
plunger and fill the barrel from the top with a ear bulb
syringe. Once done, I clean the syringe by reinserting the
plunger and pumping water in and out while shaking the
contents.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
ePriddy wrote:
There is no need to rig this. They make a bottle that has
tips that leave a fine line using underglaze.
http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayProductPage?productNum=3Dcp0278&c=
hannelid=3D
Don't have needles in your studio because some people are
stupid and horse around with things like that. That is the
real reason. Another is that depressing a plunger as you
draw is very difficult.
The bottle holds in your palm and you squeeze and write as
you go. It costs about $5 and the tips are comparable to
rapidograph width.
- ePriddy
Rimas VisGirda on sun 7 feb 10
Elizabeth has a good point of why mess with needles when so much is availab=
le ready to use... HOWEVER, there is a big difference between using a squee=
ze bottle with a fine tip and a pen-type instrument. I find it impossible t=
o write/print well with a squeeze bottle, OK, OK, maybe not IMPOSSIBLE, jus=
t difficult (or is that just me?). I use the squeeze bottle to draw with -a=
nd to sign work if the signature is going to be about an inch tall or more;=
for anything smaller, the squeeze bottle is too clumsy and I go to the Kem=
per gold pen, if I'm doing a LOT of writing/printing I'll get out the ole t=
rustworthy Wrico. AMACO offers a squueze bottle with an 18 gauge and a 16 g=
auge tip for about $5. A rep gave me a set of interchangeable tips and sque=
eze bottles (similar or maybe even the same as Howard Industries? which som=
eone posted). I tried them but found the assortment of tips, lengths, gauge=
s, etc, completely unnecessary for what I needed to do. AMACO also
made a plunger type dispenser, except the tip did not come off. It was pla=
stic and tapered so you could cut it to whatever size you wanted, you would=
need more than one if you wanted to have more than one line. AND as Elizab=
eth noted it is difficult to press the plunger while drawing -sort of like =
walking and chewing gum at the same time, just kidding. Actually more like =
patting your head and rubbing your belly. -Rimas
marci and rex on mon 8 feb 10
At 09:45 AM 2/7/2010, Rimas VisGirda wrote:
> A rep gave me a set of interchangeable tips and squeeze bottles
> (similar or maybe even the same as Howard Industries? which someone
> posted). I tried them but found the assortment of tips, lengths,
> gauges, etc, completely unnecessary for what I needed to do.
Find the gauge tip or tips you need, and use them with
plastic disposable pastry bags... fold the top of the bag
over and tape or clip shut so the paint, slip, resist , whatever
,doesnt squeeze out the back end .. Easy peasy ... (
Much easier to handle than a syringe )
Marci the chinapainter..
| |
|
