Dannon Rhudy on fri 22 jan 10
Linda said:
. I was going to attach the tiles to a hardy backer cement board or shoul=
d
I use something else //////
It will never be outside and I want to make sure the tiles don't fall off.
Also any suggestions for attaching it to the wall............
If the piece will never be outside, you can reduce the
weight by using a thin-set glue rather than mortar behind
the pieces, and using thin grout lines. For hanging purposes,
I always like to use a French cleat, the width of the piece,
or nearly so. You really ought to figure the weight of the
piece, to be sure it will not break out the wall. Be sure
to find the studs if it is a stick wall, or use really good
heavy duty anchors if it is a masonry wall.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Carolyn Boeri on fri 22 jan 10
Hi Linda,
I have forwarded your question to Rob Rossel, a potter friend of mine who
has hung many a mural at schools around new england.
he was tweeking it, hopefully it is up, I am sure he will answer you I aske=
d
him to.
check out his website.
symmetrytilesworks.com
good luck,
Carolyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Stauffer"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 3:27 PM
Subject: Tile mural
> I've finished all the tiles for a mural at our local YMCA. I was going t=
o
>
>
>
John Post on fri 22 jan 10
Frank Giorgini's book Handmade Tile has an excellent section with
pictures on how to create a backing for a wall relief tile. It's made
from plywood. I have made 7 tile murals with my students, followed
his directions and installed them in heavy traffic areas in my schools
and they don't budge at all.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
On Jan 22, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Linda Stauffer wrote:
> I've finished all the tiles for a mural at our local YMCA. I was
> going to attach the tiles to a hardy backer cement board or should
> I use something else to reduce the weight . It will never be outside
> and I want to make sure the tiles don't fall off. Also any
> suggestions for attaching it to the wall?
>
> Linda Stauffer
>
Linda Stauffer on fri 22 jan 10
I've finished all the tiles for a mural at our local YMCA. I was going =3D
to attach the tiles to a hardy backer cement board or should I use =3D
something else to reduce the weight . It will never be outside and I =3D
want to make sure the tiles don't fall off. Also any suggestions for =3D
attaching it to the wall?
Linda Stauffer
Phoenix Rising Farm on sat 23 jan 10
Folks:
Sorry to butt in, but I have to say something here.
In the interests of safety, PLEASE make sure that your substrate is
strong enough
to hold whatever you're trying to hang!
You can use plywood, marine grade or otherwise, HardieBoard, steel
panels or a sky hook....whatever
your little heart desires to mount your masterpiece...all well and good...
But if that wall itself isn't strong enough to hold it, you're facing
not only the loss of your art
but also (if in a public place) a possible liability lawsuit if the damn
thing comes crashing down
on some John Q Publican's head, foot, or other body part.
Just a word to the wise.
In Susan's case, below, she used the proper fastener on a concrete block
wall. She KNEW what the wall was made of.
Someone else would try doing the same thing on a sheetrock wall, and
could have the tapcons rip out and have it all come crashing down.
"Gee, but I used two inch long fasteners" is NOT going to be a valid
defense in court, trust me; no matter
whose fault the poor wall construction is.
Be sure you know what you're mounting it on...BEFORE you start.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
On 1/23/2010 4:58 PM, Susan Fox Hirschmann wrote:
> I took 1/2 plywood --depending on size you might need to go thicker to pr=
event any warpage....out door marine grade plywood. a must!!!!and painted i=
t several times, then drilled it in 4 areas, which were all level but two o=
n the left ish about equally apart as two on the rightish. Use heavy duty =
wire and string it thru the board several times, winding it on the inside. =
Push it down flat. Then I slattered construction adhersive in sections to=
the board, knowing of course where each tile would go. Did it section by =
section, and let it dry. Construction adhesive will never move, HONEST! =
Then hung it with 2 " tapcons onto cement block. You see, I created two ha=
ngers on the back to balance the weight between the two tapcon type nails.
> Been there for several years. No moving, no cracking....yeah!!!
> Also did an indoor one with kids from summer arts camp from the JCC---the=
y each made a tile fo their choosing showing me how they felt about summer =
and starting camp (it is always the first week after school is over so they=
are super enthusaistic and showed it in the clay!)
> Best of luck
> Email me off list if I can help you more.
> Susan
> annandale, va
>
> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Linda Stauffer wrote:
>
>
> From: Linda Stauffer
> Subject: Tile mural
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 3:27 PM
>
>
> I've finished all the tiles for a mural at our local YMCA. I was going t=
o attach the tiles to a hardy backer cement board or should I use somethin=
g else to reduce the weight . It will never be outside and I want to make s=
ure the tiles don't fall off. Also any suggestions for attaching it to the =
wall?
>
> Linda Stauffer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Susan Fox Hirschmann on sat 23 jan 10
I took 1/2 plywood --depending on size you might need to go thicker to prev=
=3D
ent any warpage....out door marine grade plywood. a must!!!!and painted it =
=3D
several times, then drilled it in 4 areas, which were all level but two on =
=3D
the left ish about equally apart as two on the rightish.=3DA0 Use heavy dut=
y =3D
wire and string it thru the board several times, winding it on the inside.=
=3D
=3DA0 Push it down flat.=3DA0 Then I slattered construction adhersive in se=
ctio=3D
ns to the board, knowing of course where each tile would go.=3DA0 Did it se=
ct=3D
ion by section, and let it dry.=3DA0 Construction adhesive will never move,=
H=3D
ONEST!=3DA0=3DA0 Then hung it with=3DA02 " tapcons onto cement block.=3DA0 =
You see,=3D
I created two hangers on the back to balance the weight between the two ta=
=3D
pcon type nails.
Been there for several years. No moving,=3DA0 no cracking....yeah!!!
Also did an indoor one with kids from summer arts camp from the JCC---they =
=3D
each made a tile fo their choosing showing me how they felt about summer an=
=3D
d starting camp (it is always the first week after school is over so they a=
=3D
re super enthusaistic and showed it in the clay!)
Best of luck
Email me off list if I can help you more.
Susan
annandale, va
--- On Fri, 1/22/10, Linda Stauffer wrote:
From: Linda Stauffer
Subject: Tile mural
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 3:27 PM
I've finished all the tiles for a mural at our local YMCA.=3DA0 I was going=
t=3D
o=3DA0 attach the tiles to a hardy backer cement board or should I use some=
th=3D
ing else to reduce the weight . It will never be outside and I want to make=
=3D
sure the tiles don't fall off. Also any suggestions for attaching it to th=
=3D
e wall?
Linda Stauffer
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Jim Willett on sun 24 jan 10
I think you might have better luck finding his web site with this link
http://www.cwtdesigns.com/host/Symmetry/publicart.php
Jim
Out of the Fire Studio
John Post on sun 24 jan 10
I think the wall mount system from the Frank Giorgini book is far
superior to any set up that requires a mounting wire. When I use this
method, I like the Tapcon fasteners that have a hex head instead of
the ones that have a philips head. You can then use a ratchet driver
to set the anchors into the concrete wall instead of a phillips head
screw driver.
The basic premise of the Giorgini method is that on the back of the
mural a horizontal piece of wood is mounted that has a 45 degree angle
cut into the edge that points down. On the wall a similar piece is
attached that has the 45 degree angle pointing up. When the mural is
hung on the wall, the 45 degree angle pieces interlock. Even if
someone bumps the side of the mural there is no way it is going to
move. The only way to get the mural off the wall is to lift it
directly upward.
The reason I recommend getting the book, is that if you see a photo of
this method you can instantly understand why it's such a stable
mounting system. The murals in the schools I teach in are in crowded
hallways and are constantly being touched by kids who are going in and
out for recess.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
Linda Stauffer on sun 24 jan 10
I will check to see the location and the type of wall it will be hung =3D
on. I think the location they have selected is a concrete block wall.
On Jan 23, 2010, at 10:03 PM, Phoenix Rising Farm wrote:
> Folks:
> Sorry to butt in, but I have to say something here.
>=3D20
> In the interests of safety, PLEASE make sure that your substrate is
> strong enough
> to hold whatever you're trying to hang!
>=3D20
> You can use plywood, marine grade or otherwise, HardieBoard, steel
> panels or a sky hook....whatever
> your little heart desires to mount your masterpiece...all well and =3D
good...
> But if that wall itself isn't strong enough to hold it, you're facing
> not only the loss of your art
> but also (if in a public place) a possible liability lawsuit if the =3D
damn
> thing comes crashing down
> on some John Q Publican's head, foot, or other body part.
> Just a word to the wise.
>=3D20
> In Susan's case, below, she used the proper fastener on a concrete =3D
block
> wall. She KNEW what the wall was made of.
> Someone else would try doing the same thing on a sheetrock wall, and
> could have the tapcons rip out and have it all come crashing down.
> "Gee, but I used two inch long fasteners" is NOT going to be a valid
> defense in court, trust me; no matter
> whose fault the poor wall construction is.
> Be sure you know what you're mounting it on...BEFORE you start.
>=3D20
> Best,
> Wayne Seidl
>=3D20
> On 1/23/2010 4:58 PM, Susan Fox Hirschmann wrote:
>> I took 1/2 plywood --depending on size you might need to go thicker =3D
to prevent any warpage....out door marine grade plywood. a must!!!!and =3D
painted it several times, then drilled it in 4 areas, which were all =3D
level but two on the left ish about equally apart as two on the =3D
rightish. Use heavy duty wire and string it thru the board several =3D
times, winding it on the inside. Push it down flat. Then I slattered =3D
construction adhersive in sections to the board, knowing of course where =
=3D
each tile would go. Did it section by section, and let it dry. =3D
Construction adhesive will never move, HONEST! Then hung it with 2 " =3D
tapcons onto cement block. You see, I created two hangers on the back =3D
to balance the weight between the two tapcon type nails.
>> Been there for several years. No moving, no cracking....yeah!!!
>> Also did an indoor one with kids from summer arts camp from the =3D
JCC---they each made a tile fo their choosing showing me how they felt =3D
about summer and starting camp (it is always the first week after school =
=3D
is over so they are super enthusaistic and showed it in the clay!)
>> Best of luck
>> Email me off list if I can help you more.
>> Susan
>> annandale, va
>>=3D20
>> --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Linda Stauffer wrote:
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> From: Linda Stauffer
>> Subject: Tile mural
>> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Date: Friday, January 22, 2010, 3:27 PM
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> I've finished all the tiles for a mural at our local YMCA. I was =3D
going to attach the tiles to a hardy backer cement board or should I =3D
use something else to reduce the weight . It will never be outside and I =
=3D
want to make sure the tiles don't fall off. Also any suggestions for =3D
attaching it to the wall?
>>=3D20
>> Linda Stauffer
>>
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
James Freeman on mon 25 jan 10
The hanging system John describes is also called a "French cleat". You can
see an illustration of this system here:
http://www.wallshelfshowcase.com/installationinstructions.html
The big Mona Lisa piece on my Flickr page, which consists of 520 ceramic
cups on a wood and glass shelving system, weighs approximately 180 pounds.
It is mounted using a French cleat and a few screws. It is very solid and
secure, and I am guessing it would hold many times this weight.
The French cleat system does require the back board of the piece to be hung
to be inset from the back of the frame by the thickness of your cleat. In
my case, the back is inset 3/4". It is also possible to hang a frameless
piece with this system by affixing a spacer board to the bottom edge of you=
r
backer, but in this case you will have a visible gap behind the piece, whic=
h
may or may not be an issue for you.
Another tip: Make the half of the cleat which will mount to the wall rathe=
r
wide (much wider than that shown in the link above). The heavier the objec=
t
you intend to hang, the wider your mounting board needs to be. The wider
board provides a greater bearing surface against the relatively soft
drywall. A narrow mounting board under a heavy load could theoretically
bend down on it's screws and dig into the drywall, thus weakening your
mount. The hanger board for my Mona Lisa piece is about 4 1/2" wide. Even
against a block wall, a wider mounting board will provide a more secure
mount. Lastly, if the load is heavy, it is best to make the cleat system
out of a hard, dense wood such as oak, ash, or hard maple. Softer woods
will not hold screws as well where they are glued and screwed to your backe=
r
board, and will not hold up as well against the screw heads where the
mounting board is screwed to the wall.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/clayart/
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 8:03 PM, John Post wrote=
:
> I think the wall mount system from the Frank Giorgini book is far
> superior to any set up that requires a mounting wire. When I use this
> method, I like the Tapcon fasteners that have a hex head instead of
> the ones that have a philips head. You can then use a ratchet driver
> to set the anchors into the concrete wall instead of a phillips head
> screw driver.
>
> The basic premise of the Giorgini method is that on the back of the
> mural a horizontal piece of wood is mounted that has a 45 degree angle
> cut into the edge that points down. On the wall a similar piece is
> attached that has the 45 degree angle pointing up. When the mural is
> hung on the wall, the 45 degree angle pieces interlock. Even if
> someone bumps the side of the mural there is no way it is going to
> move. The only way to get the mural off the wall is to lift it
> directly upward.
>
> The reason I recommend getting the book, is that if you see a photo of
> this method you can instantly understand why it's such a stable
> mounting system. The murals in the schools I teach in are in crowded
> hallways and are constantly being touched by kids who are going in and
> out for recess.
>
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> :: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
> :: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
>
Philip Poburka on mon 25 jan 10
Hi John, all...
Long ago, the use of a top-edge-angled-in Ledger Board on a wall, and a
co-responding/complimentary one on the item to be hung...was called a
'French Cleat'.
Even more stable - have a second reversed set below, at a slight angle...so
the thing-to-be-hung slides on from one side, and, is absolutely positively
snug anbd 'locked', once all the way on.
Or...French Cleat at the top, and some Neodymium Magnets arranged
below...would allow a recessed Back, and, a frame periphery flat
again'-the-wall...
Meant friendly -
Personally, I have never liked 'tapcon' fasteners.
One may easily enough elect to familiarize themselves with traditional kind=
s
of honest, simple, expanding-when-tightened Masonary Bolts
( with the type elected in deference to the condition ), which are vastly
better,
and easy enough to use.
Most every 'tapcon' I ever saw in doing building demolition or remodelling,
I
just casually pulled them out with a Claw Hammer...that's how well they wer=
e
in there.
Occasions of wishing to suspend heavy installations or other things on
Masonry Walls are rare enough to justify a deliberate, mechanically
appropriate, and earnest means and method.
I'd say - Obtaining a Masonry Drill outfit, temporary use of one, or,
enlisting the
services of someone who has an outfit and is familiar with it's proper use,
and electing right Hardware for the particulars of the Wall and
thing-to-be-suspended, is well worth the effort, if the installation is of
any size/weight or importance.
Love,
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Post"
>I think the wall mount system from the Frank Giorgini book is far
> superior to any set up that requires a mounting wire. When I use this
> method, I like the Tapcon fasteners that have a hex head instead of
> the ones that have a philips head. You can then use a ratchet driver
> to set the anchors into the concrete wall instead of a phillips head
> screw driver.
>
> The basic premise of the Giorgini method is that on the back of the
> mural a horizontal piece of wood is mounted that has a 45 degree angle
> cut into the edge that points down. On the wall a similar piece is
> attached that has the 45 degree angle pointing up. When the mural is
> hung on the wall, the 45 degree angle pieces interlock. Even if
> someone bumps the side of the mural there is no way it is going to
> move. The only way to get the mural off the wall is to lift it
> directly upward.
>
> The reason I recommend getting the book, is that if you see a photo of
> this method you can instantly understand why it's such a stable
> mounting system. The murals in the schools I teach in are in crowded
> hallways and are constantly being touched by kids who are going in and
> out for recess.
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> :: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
> :: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
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