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signing off!

updated tue 16 dec 97

 

Clennell on sun 7 dec 97

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Worry, worry, worry...I'm in my first sale this weekend...very soon now.
>>I neglected to sign some of my ^10 reduction-fired pots. I'd like to
>>add a signature in red iron oxide. My questions are: Will it work if I
>>then fire them in the electric kiln? If so, at what cone should they be

Joyce: Why would you worry about your signature in the first place. Your
pots are your signature. I have some excellent pots by Richard Batterham
of England. No signature. I can spot his pots a mile away. He is
actually my favourite potter. Never has or never will sign his work.
Is it your pots that are worth the money or your signature? If the pots are
worth less without the signature, then maybe you could start selling your
signature and giving them a pot for free.
I just looked at a Wally Keeler jug we have. No signature but you would
know it's a genuine Wally.
I am not making light of your problem. People seem to need the ego
scratching on the bottom to validate the piece of work.

We have a collection of folk pots. No signature. I value them for the pot.
Signing off!
maybe I won't sign this, oh yes I will. That will validate it.
Tony

Sheila and Tony Clennell
Gleason Brook Pottery
Box l0, RR#2,
Wiarton, Ontario
NOH 2TO
Canada

Phone # 1 (519) 534-2935
Fax # 1 (519) 534-0602
E-mail clennell@bmts.com

Rebecca Harvey on mon 8 dec 97

From a historical point of view it is very very important that you not only
sign but date your work in some fashion. I am speaking from experience
here. We ( all of us here at OSU) are going through the process of sorting
through our collection and properly cataloging the works. It is hard
enough with a signature and a date, difficult with just a signature and
very hard to impossible with nothing other than this looks like or seems
similar to other known and documented works. I am empathetic with the
attitude that the work speaks for itself but should we give it the
opportunity to speak beyond itself, beyond our lifetime possibly, ( clay
as a material has that potential after all. ) to join in a larger dialogue
of a history of objects in the world. Perhaps there is even a resposibilty
to the ceramic world at large. I never used to sign my pieces either, I do
now.

David Hendley on mon 8 dec 97

Tony, I couldn't disagree more with your slant on signing pots.

A signed pot is good for the potter and for the buyer of the piece.
It's good for a viewer who happens by. Everyone benefits. No one loses.
Best of all is a "signature" that can actually be read, as well as the
name and location of the pottery.

The potter benefits because the information allows the public to easily
connect
the potter and his work. I certainly wouldn't know a Richard
Batterham pot if I saw it. But I would like to.
How would I ever find out? Ask an expert? Buy a book showing potter's marks?
And, would you value his pots any less if they were signed?
I am always irritated when I find a good pot, turn it over
to see who made it, and see an illedgible scrawl, or nothing at all.
Doesn't the potter think enough of his work to let people know who made it?
And, I've lost a learning opportunity to know about another potter.

What if automobiles had no names and no location of manufacture,
but just a hard to read initial?
I might see a Ford that really appealed to me.
Gracefully designed, beautifully painted. I might even want to buy one.
Uh-oh, I don't even know the name of the vehicle.
I don't know where I can see more.
Far from an ego scratching, a signature provides basic information.

And yes, I have made sales to people who saw a pot they liked,
called information for my little town to get my phone number,
called, and then visited.
It's hard enough to make a living as a potter.
Why should I make it harder by making it difficult for
people to find me?
Equally important, if someone has a question about using a pot or
a problem with a pot, they are able to contact me.
I've also sold pots because they say "Maydelle, Texas" on the bottom.
Great. I'm proud of my little town, and my pottery is the only thing
equally proud people can buy that says 'made in Maydelle'.
I've also made sales because my pots say "U. S. A." on the bottom.
Great again. Folks are proud of their country and are tired of everything
they pick up stamped "Taiwan" or "China".

You're darn right my signature is valuable, as well it should be.
Every piece that some one buys from my shop was made entirely by me.
No students. No apprentices. No hourly employees.
My signature verifies that the piece was made by a potter with
25 years of experience.

I don't know why this 'non-signing' of pots has such a toe-hold in North
America. It's part of the Oriental~Leach~English tradition that
made it over here with the beginnings of the modern potter movement, I guess.
I, myself, feel no allegiance to it.

Most sincerely,
Mr. X
Somewhere in North America


>Joyce: Why would you worry about your signature in the first place. Your
>pots are your signature. I have some excellent pots by Richard Batterham
>of England. No signature. I can spot his pots a mile away. He is
>actually my favourite potter. Never has or never will sign his work.
>Is it your pots that are worth the money or your signature? If the pots are
>worth less without the signature, then maybe you could start selling your
>signature and giving them a pot for free.
>I just looked at a Wally Keeler jug we have. No signature but you would
>know it's a genuine Wally.
>I am not making light of your problem. People seem to need the ego
>scratching on the bottom to validate the piece of work.
>
>We have a collection of folk pots. No signature. I value them for the pot.
>Signing off!
>maybe I won't sign this, oh yes I will. That will validate it.
>Tony
>
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/

Don Jones on tue 9 dec 97

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>From a historical point of view it is very very important that you not only
>sign but date your work in some fashion.

Also from a sales point of view, very few collectors of living clay artists
would be willing to pay big bucks for an unsigned piece. I had to send a
letter of authenticity to one c ollector because I had forgot to sign a
piece.

Don Jones
claysky@highfiber.com
:-) implied in all messages and replies
http://highfiber.com/~claysky

douglas gray on tue 9 dec 97

I use stamps to sign my work. Have been doing so almost from the very begining.
When it breaks or cracks (it is a bisqued piece of clay) I make another like it,
maybe a bit larger or smaller, maybe a square or rectangle instead of a circle.
The stamp doesn't have my name on it, just a symbol. It began as my initials,
but abstracted into a tiny little figure, so abstract you can't tell the gender,
just a human being. Sometimes I rotate the stamp so that the little figure
stands on his head. There are days when I feel like doing that myself.
Sometimes, I repeat the stamp so he or she has company (hate to feel alone).
Sometimes the stamp is incorpoarated into the surface design, and doesn't look
like a signature at all.

Then a bout 3 years ago I started making companion stamps, something that would
suggest a location. When I lived in the mountains, I had a stamp of the
mopuntains, now that I live by the ocean I have a fish stamp that I use. The
stamps don't mean much to anybody but me, I can tell it's my work. I can even
tell where it was made and what mood I was in when I signed it.

It is a bad business practice I know. I am a bad businessman. Tried one
semester in business school before I took up writing. Did three years of
writing before I took up clay. Have been in clay since, so I know I am not cut
out for business, maybe not even cut out for writing, but I found an area that I
love and I spend my time doing that.

On occassion, buyers come up to me to tell me I forgot to sign my work. I point
to the stamps and say that's my signature. Sometimes they are ok with that,
sometimes they want a real signature. I whip out my black sharpie pen and write
my name nicely across the bottom, (I have been practicing my penmanship since
the third grade) date it and hand it back to them. They smile and seem
contented.

I think most of the ceramic work that has been made throughout time and across
the world has no signature, maybe a thumb print, but no signature. Many of
those early potters were slaves, probably didn't know how to right, probably
didn't make much money either. I can hear my mother now. It's one of the
historical bridges that everyone else has jumped off of, am I to follow them?
Probably, I was never very practical child.

I can see the logic in signing your work, as a record, as an advertisement, as
good business. But I can't make myself do it any other way. I like stamping, I
like the impressions I get with my stamps. I like the vague nature of the
process--as if some person some where made this thing. That is enough for me.
Well, there are times when i write messages inside my double wall forms and then
close them up like individual ceramic time capsules, but that's another story.

If I could sign with a thumbprint I would probably do that. Maybe I'll get some
of those ceramic ink pads and start leaving prints every where, or use xerox
toner to dust my hands with. Maybe I could silkscreen my prints, or photo
transfer or maybe use room temperature glazes or ...

I can see many more possibilities now that I am part of this list. The only way
I don't like to see signatures, is scratched into the botom with a needle
tool--sharp edges and little clay boogers that trap glaze--ick.


doug

============================================================================ =)
Douglas E. Gray
Assistant Professor of Art, Ceramics
Francis Marion Univeristy
Florence, South Carolina 29501

dgray@fmarion.edu

JockyC on wed 10 dec 97

In a message dated 07/12/97 Tony Clennell writes:

<< Joyce: Why would you worry about your signature in the first place. Your
pots are your signature. I have some excellent pots by Richard Batterham
of England. No signature. I can spot his pots a mile away. He is
actually my favourite potter. Never has or never will sign his work.
Is it your pots that are worth the money or your signature? If the pots are
worth less without the signature, then maybe you could start selling your
signature and giving them a pot for free.
I just looked at a Wally Keeler jug we have. No signature but you would
know it's a genuine Wally. >>

In fact Wally Keeler does use a discreet identification mark on his pots - a
stamp consisting of a dot, in a circle, in another circle; it is usually on
the body of the pot, often well up towards the top.

John

Sandra Dwiggins on wed 10 dec 97

Doug--
I don't like clay buggers either. For what it's worth, I sign with RIO, and if
I forget to sign a piece (and I've had people refuse to purchase a piece
without a signature) I also whip out the old Sharpie. I thought at one time
I would give them a choice of red, blue, or black---but that's stretching it
a bit.

No clay buggers for me.
Sandy

Akitajin \"Lee Love\" on wed 10 dec 97

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Jones

Also from a sales point of view, very few collectors of living clay artists
would be willing to pay big bucks for an unsigned piece. I had to send a
letter of authenticity to one collector because I had forgot to sign a
piece.
----------------------------------------

I stamp my work with the Japanese Kanji for Ikiru. I have thought about
stamping my telephone number on the bottom of larger pots. Gonna move next
year, I hope, so it isn't a good idea right now.

Warren MacKenzie doesn't sign or stamp his pots anymore. He gets
upset about people buying for his name and not the inherent virtue of the
pot.

/(o\' Lee In Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
\o)/' mailto:Ikiru@Kami.com
' http://www.millcomm.com/~leelove/ikiru.html

Judith Enright on thu 11 dec 97

I have two stamps, made by a typesetter -- one is a semicircle
indicating the name of my pottery, the other is an initial stamp. The
aluminum of the stamps makes for a very clean edge; I brush the
stamp(s) with oxide or underglaze, then stamp into the bottom of the
pot after trimming. Works like a charm.

Judith Enright



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Signing Off! -Reply
Author: Sandra Dwiggins at Internet
Date: 12/10/97 9:25 AM


----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Doug--
I don't like clay buggers either. For what it's worth, I sign with RIO, and if
I forget to sign a piece (and I've had people refuse to purchase a piece
without a signature) I also whip out the old Sharpie. I thought at one time
I would give them a choice of red, blue, or black---but that's stretching it
a bit.

No clay buggers for me.
Sandy

Janet H Walker on fri 12 dec 97

...A signed pot is good for the potter and for the buyer...

And here's a perspective from the buying public. Yesterday was my turn
to tend shop at the coop I belong to. A sortof shy lady came over and
asked why the potter didn't sign his work. I didn't know.
We checked a number of pieces and found that some had a simple stamp of
an initial and many had nothing. (Same guy. Hmm. I wonder whether he
slip casts. Anyhow.)

She likes to buy pots that are signed. She says it gives her a good
feeling to turn over a pot and look at the name and date on the bottom.
She feels a connection with a person who made something for her to use.
She bought the guy's pot without the stamp but explained that it was
for a gift so that was alright. For herself, she likes a handmade pot
to announce that fact.

I'm with her now. As a beginner, I signed because others did. Then
about 15 years ago, I hit a phase where I thought it wasn't "professional"
to sign. (I wonder what I thought that meant?) Then I started doing
handbuilding instead of throwing and the signing was just a natural part
of finishing up. Now I really believe in it. For reasons like those
the lady offerred. I actually spend quite a lot of time on the out of
sight bottoms of some pieces, making a little frame area for the
signature. I think of that as the secret between me and the owner.
We're the only two who know that it is there but it makes both of us
feel good.

(signed)
Jan Walker
Cambridge MA USA

R12396 on fri 12 dec 97

Hello Joyce,

Well I guess you got them knocking at your door step....I would think the best
signature you could give your pots would be a clear finger
print!...Permanent,..one of a kind...not to showy...can be traced down the
future....and different!...what do you think?...
Good to hear from you. R12398,Richard, "The Clay Stalker", Ramierz,...In
Sacto, Calif....Where's it's coool.

Akitajin \"Lee Love\" on sun 14 dec 97


-----Original Message-----
From: Janet H Walker


----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ...A signed pot is good for the potter and for the buyer...

Hamada said he didn't sign his pots because in the future, when
he was dead and gone, all the good pots that looked like his would be
thought to be his and all the bad pots (including the ones he made) would be
thought to be made by others. :^)

I stamp my pots with a chop. I do this for my work that sells
at other shops. Helps with inventory. But it is my hope that the pots I
make _ARE_ my signature. Encourage and educate the public so that they can
learn to tell one pot from another without looking at the stamp. An
educated public is going to buy better pots and hopefully these works are
going to be yours & mine.

Buying by signature is a little like the icon cash registers at
McDonalds. They use these registers so people who cannot read English or
count change can resgister a Happy Meal purchase (*Happy, Happy, Joy,
Joy!*). I'd rather teach them how to read and count than dumb them down
with icons. JMHO ;^)

/(o\' Lee In Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
\o)/' mailto:Ikiru@Kami.com i
' http://www.millcomm.com/~leelove/ikiru.html

Jenni on mon 15 dec 97

On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Akitajin "Lee Love" wrote:

> I stamp my pots with a chop. I do this for my work that sells
> at other shops. Helps with inventory. But it is my hope that the pots I
> make _ARE_ my signature. Encourage and educate the public so that they can
> learn to tell one pot from another without looking at the stamp. An
> educated public is going to buy better pots and hopefully these works are
> going to be yours & mine.

You're implying, of course, that all of your pots are the same style. If
you try different things, which I would imagine most people would seeing
as how making the same style over and over could get a little old, people
are going to have a difficult time knowing which one is yours and which
one is anothers.

>
> Buying by signature is a little like the icon cash registers at
> McDonalds. They use these registers so people who cannot read English or
> count change can resgister a Happy Meal purchase (*Happy, Happy, Joy,
> Joy!*). I'd rather teach them how to read and count than dumb them down
> with icons. JMHO ;^)

I honestly, do not see the relevance to your metaphor. If I know I like a
particular potter's work and I'd like to get another one either for
myself, or as a gift, I'd like to be able to tell whether or not I'm
getting one by that potter. What do icon registers have to do with buying
pots? I can read...I've had many years of ceramic classes (although I do
not, by any means, profess to be an expert)...I've been educated...but if
I see someone's work that I like, I'd like to be able to give them my
money again...not someone who's work looks like their work. You assume,
incorrectly, that those of us who do like to buy particular potters work
are uneducated. I for one, simply like supporting a particular potter who
I like and enjoy.

Jen



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