Michael McDowell on fri 28 nov 97
------------------
Fellow Clayartists,
I just got through with a four hour session with my photographer, getting
slides done for next year's round of shows. It's become clear to me that in
order to get into shows I need professional quality slides, and that is
beyond my abilities with a camera. I'm convinced that photography is an
art/craft every bit as deserving of recognition as our work with clay.
National clay competitions/exhibitions are now almost exclusively judged on
the basis of submitted slides or prints. Typically, photos of accepted
works are held by the show, and used =22for the purposes of documentation,
education, publicity, and future grant proposals.=22 I have no problem with
this practice. It's an understandable requirement for putting on such an
event on the kind of shoestring budjet that is typically available. These
shows are an important way of gaining recognition for our work, and it
behooves us to cooperate in any way possible. My photographer is a little
troubled by the practice however, and I promised to air his viewpoint here
on the list.
When I purchase slides of my work from my photographer, that's all I'm
buying from him, the slides, not the reproduction rights. Just as when
someone buys a piece of ceramic art from one of us, we don't release the
right to reproduce that work, unless that is specifically contracted for.
Now my photographer is my friend as well, and he's willing to accept the
current practice in order to support my efforts to gain recognition for my
work. But he does feel slighted when his images of my work are used without
at least crediting him for his creation. I can only smile sheepishly =26
apologize to him when that happens.
I have to ask, would it be all that difficult for the shows to alter their
practices in the use of these images to make it a standard practice to
credit the photographers? If feels to me that it would be appropriate for
us, in our efforts to gain recognition for our work on the border between
art =26 craft, not to slight the work of others in a similar location on the
art/craft spectrum.
What do y'all think?
Michael McDowell
Whatcom County, WA USA
Dannon Rhudy on sat 29 nov 97
Michael,
I have given this thought, too. Most times when we select a slide
for use on the prospectus or invitation for Ceramics USA, we have
no way to know who the photographer was. Often, I expect, it
was the artist; just as often, not. Slides arrive
with all kinds of information on them. But information as to
photographer is not there. Perhaps it would be possible to find
out the photographer for selected images. Haven't tried, in
all truth. When we make those selections, we don't even tell the
artist whose work is being used- time is too short. They find out
when the invitation or prospectus goes out. So far, no one has
said "you shouldn't have used my piece on this postcard". But
neither have they volunteered the name of their photographer.
I understand the photographer's concern. They do deserve credit,
and I have seen catalogues and so on where they are given credit.
Don't recall invitations with those credits, off-hand.
It will be interesting to hear what others have to say in this
regard.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
------------------
Fellow Clayartists,
I just got through with a four hour session with my photographer,
getting
slides done for next year's round of shows. It's become clear to
me that in
order to get into shows I need professional quality slides, and
that is
beyond my abilities with a camera. I'm convinced that photography
is an
art/craft every bit as deserving of recognition as our work with
clay.
National clay competitions/exhibitions are now almost exclusively
judged on
the basis of submitted slides or prints. Typically, photos of
accepted
works are held by the show, and used "for the purposes of
documentation,
education, publicity, and future grant proposals." I have no
problem with
this practice. It's an understandable requirement for putting on
such an
event on the kind of shoestring budjet that is typically
available. These
shows are an important way of gaining recognition for our work,
and it
behooves us to cooperate in any way possible. My photographer is a
little
troubled by the practice however, and I promised to air his
viewpoint here
on the list.
When I purchase slides of my work from my photographer, that's all
I'm
buying from him, the slides, not the reproduction rights. Just as
when
someone buys a piece of ceramic art from one of us, we don't
release the
right to reproduce that work, unless that is specifically
contracted for.
Now my photographer is my friend as well, and he's willing to
accept the
current practice in order to support my efforts to gain
recognition for my
work. But he does feel slighted when his images of my work are
used without
at least crediting him for his creation. I can only smile
sheepishly &
apologize to him when that happens.
I have to ask, would it be all that difficult for the shows to
alter their
practices in the use of these images to make it a standard
practice to
credit the photographers? If feels to me that it would be
appropriate for
us, in our efforts to gain recognition for our work on the border
between
art & craft, not to slight the work of others in a similar
location on the
art/craft spectrum.
What do y'all think?
Michael McDowell
Whatcom County, WA USA
DAN JOHNSTON on sun 30 nov 97
Michael:
I do understand the need of the photographer to be recognized for the
quality of the "art" they have produced, but it is in this particular
arena that the pottery is being judged. I agree that a footnote needs to
be added as to the photographer, and perhaps permission needs to be
obtained for further use beyond that competition, but remember it is the
pottery we are looking at in this show.
There are photography competitions where they can gain the recognition and
notoriety needed for their craft. Food for thought: If they photograph a
still life including your pottery do they credit you and gain your
permission for further use?
Dan
Farmington, MO
danj@ldd.net
Cheryl L Litman on sun 30 nov 97
Perhaps we potters should consider adding the photographers name to the
slide along with all the other information.
The husband of a friend of mine is a professional photographer of
sculptures. Maybe it's a different market but in any literature I've
seen printed of the work he photographs, his name is listed in a credit.
Cheryl Litman
Somerset, NJ
email: cheryllitman@juno.com
On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 09:40:32 EST Dannon Rhudy writes:
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>
>Michael,
>
>I have given this thought, too. Most times when we select a slide
>for use on the prospectus or invitation for Ceramics USA, we have
>no way to know who the photographer was. Often, I expect, it
>was the artist; just as often, not. Slides arrive
>with all kinds of information on them. But information as to
>photographer is not there. Perhaps it would be possible to find
>out the photographer for selected images. Haven't tried, in
>all truth. When we make those selections, we don't even tell the
>artist whose work is being used- time is too short. They find out
>when the invitation or prospectus goes out. So far, no one has
>said "you shouldn't have used my piece on this postcard". But
>neither have they volunteered the name of their photographer.
>
>I understand the photographer's concern. They do deserve credit,
>and I have seen catalogues and so on where they are given credit.
>Don't recall invitations with those credits, off-hand.
>
>It will be interesting to hear what others have to say in this
>regard.
>
>Dannon Rhudy
>potter@koyote.com
>
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>------------------
>Fellow Clayartists,
>
>I just got through with a four hour session with my photographer,
>getting
>slides done for next year's round of shows. It's become clear to
>me that in
>order to get into shows I need professional quality slides, and
>that is
>beyond my abilities with a camera. I'm convinced that photography
>is an
>art/craft every bit as deserving of recognition as our work with
>clay.
>
>National clay competitions/exhibitions are now almost exclusively
>judged on
>the basis of submitted slides or prints. Typically, photos of
>accepted
>works are held by the show, and used "for the purposes of
>documentation,
>education, publicity, and future grant proposals." I have no
>problem with
>this practice. It's an understandable requirement for putting on
>such an
>event on the kind of shoestring budjet that is typically
>available. These
>shows are an important way of gaining recognition for our work,
>and it
>behooves us to cooperate in any way possible. My photographer is a
>little
>troubled by the practice however, and I promised to air his
>viewpoint here
>on the list.
>
>When I purchase slides of my work from my photographer, that's all
>I'm
>buying from him, the slides, not the reproduction rights. Just as
>when
>someone buys a piece of ceramic art from one of us, we don't
>release the
>right to reproduce that work, unless that is specifically
>contracted for.
>Now my photographer is my friend as well, and he's willing to
>accept the
>current practice in order to support my efforts to gain
>recognition for my
>work. But he does feel slighted when his images of my work are
>used without
>at least crediting him for his creation. I can only smile
>sheepishly &
>apologize to him when that happens.
>
>I have to ask, would it be all that difficult for the shows to
>alter their
>practices in the use of these images to make it a standard
>practice to
>credit the photographers? If feels to me that it would be
>appropriate for
>us, in our efforts to gain recognition for our work on the border
>between
>art & craft, not to slight the work of others in a similar
>location on the
>art/craft spectrum.
>
>What do y'all think?
>
>Michael McDowell
>Whatcom County, WA USA
>
Michael McDowell on tue 2 dec 97
------------------
Dan,
Thanks for your response. I note that you say you agree that it would be a
good practice to cite the photographer when the photo is reproduced. That
is really all I am suggesting should be done different than the current
practice.
As to whether a pot's maker should be credited if the pot appears in a
prize winning photo. I'd say yes, it should, though quite probably it
wouldn't in practice. But that really feeds into my view that the way to
improve that situation is to first put our own house in order. Copyright
law is very complex and expensive to enforce, but my limited understanding
of that area is that the photographer in the first case and the potter in
the second do have legal rights to credit and compensation. In neither case
do I imagine there is enough money involved to make it worth pursuing in
court. But why not take the =22high road=22 and give credit where credit is
due?
Dannon, I've already responded to your message off the list, but since
we're trying to make this a shared dialog, I'll respond here too. It's good
to know you, as a competition organizer, are at least considering this
question. If it is going to become something you want to take action on,
then I believe that you could easily elicit the names of photographers from
competition entrants if you'd request that information come along with the
entry. It may be impractical to include the photographer's name on the
slide, since that tiny surface is already crowded with other information.
But surely having the photographer's name somewhere on the entry form would
put it close enough at hand.
Michael McDowell
Whatcom County WA USA
MMcDowell=40compuserve.com
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