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firing the hell outta red

updated sun 10 aug 08

 

John Britt on sun 3 aug 08


Tony,

Nice to see you are back.

I have heard a lot of people talk about reds being created on the way dow=
n
but I have found that a red is created on the way up (012 to 05) but is
not manifested until the the kiln cools. This is easy to test by pulling
draw tiles every a hour. It is like having a baby, in that the woman is
impregnated nine months prior to the birth. So without that you would
never have a baby. Same with reds, you create the reds early and they are
"born" on the cooling cycle.

(With the exception of strike firing where you reduce on cooling but that
is only surface reds not red throughout the glaze coat.)

You can also verify this by taking the early reduced draw tiles that
appear oxidized and refiring them in electric bisques and the will come
out red. The reds need cooling time to form.

On the cone 6 reduction and shinos, Joe Singewald fired the Penland kiln
for about 50 hours and soaked at cone 6 for about 24 (can't exactly
remember the time but it was long!) and got great color, pinks if I
remember correctly.

Would love to be testing with you but we built a kiln today at my studio
in a workshop. Great students. Will finish the arch tomorrow and then get
ready for the Oil Spot Workshop in mid August.


See ya,

John Britt
www.johnbrittpottery.com/wks.htm
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com/

jonathan byler on mon 4 aug 08


Rikki,

I don't know the specifics of the glazes in question, but everything
I have ever read about copper reds shows what chuck wrote to be
true. that is, that they tend to work out best when the glaze is
very fluid. I think, because the red is actually refraction of light
in the glaze itself and not primarily due to the color of red copper
oxide, that this would make sense, as it is much easier to get
crystals to form in liquids than in solids at regular atmospheric
pressures.


jon byler
3-D Building Coordinator
Art Department
Auburn University, AL 36849

On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Rikki Gill wrote:

> Hi Chuck,
>
> Do you know what temperature he fired to?
>
> Thanks for the information
>
> Rikki Gill
> rikigil@sbcglobal.net
> www.rikkigillceramics.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck T. Wagoner"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Firing the hell outta red
>
>
>> I have Richard Peeler's old glaze note book and he notes that his
>> copper
>> reds seems to be better when the glaze has started to move a
>> little bit.
>>
>> Here are some of his favorites,
>>
>> This one is attributed to Ed Littlefield
>>
>> Soda Spar 530
>> CaCo 150
>> Talc 40
>> Zinc 50
>> Kaolin 60
>> Flint 170
>> Tin 10
>> Copper Ox 3
>> Sil Carbide 3

Dannon Rhudy on mon 4 aug 08


John Britt said:
.........I have heard a lot of people talk about reds being created on the
way down
but I have found that a red is created on the way up (012 to 05) but is
not manifested until the the kiln cools.........


In my experience, this is correct. The reds
are created on the way up, and appear on the
cooling cycle. You can actually observe this
happening, if you put some in front of a spy hole.
It will start with a little dot of red, and then just
grow - if the cool is slow enough. Pete Pinnell
has written of this, too, in his column.

regards

Dannon Rhudy

Chuck T. Wagoner on mon 4 aug 08


I have Richard Peeler's old glaze note book and he notes that his copper
reds seems to be better when the glaze has started to move a little bit.

Here are some of his favorites,

This one is attributed to Ed Littlefield

Soda Spar 530
CaCo 150
Talc 40
Zinc 50
Kaolin 60
Flint 170
Tin 10
Copper Ox 3
Sil Carbide 3

Rikki Gill on mon 4 aug 08


Hi Chuck,

Do you know what temperature he fired to?

Thanks for the information

Rikki Gill
rikigil@sbcglobal.net
www.rikkigillceramics.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck T. Wagoner"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Firing the hell outta red


>I have Richard Peeler's old glaze note book and he notes that his copper
> reds seems to be better when the glaze has started to move a little bit.
>
> Here are some of his favorites,
>
> This one is attributed to Ed Littlefield
>
> Soda Spar 530
> CaCo 150
> Talc 40
> Zinc 50
> Kaolin 60
> Flint 170
> Tin 10
> Copper Ox 3
> Sil Carbide 3

John Britt on mon 4 aug 08


Chuck,

That glaze you listed:

"This one is attributed to Ed Littlefield:"

Soda Spar 530
CaCo 150
Talc 40
Zinc 50
Kaolin 60
Flint 170
Tin 10
Copper Ox 3
Sil Carbide 3

I added to 1000 so the % is:



Soda Spar 53.0
CaCo 150
Talc 4.0
Zinc 5.0
Kaolin 6.0
Flint 17.0
Tin 1.0
Copper Ox 0.3
Sil Carbide 0.3

That is a fake reduction red because is has the addition of Silicon
carbide at 0.3. You usually fire those in electric oxidation to get reds.
I would leave it out of a reduction firing because you can get reds easil=
y
without it and it causes pinholes. I would also suggest the addtion of 5
- 12 % Gerstley Borate or Frit to make it more fluid.

Hope it helps,

John Britt
www.johnbrittpottery.com/wks.htm
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com/

jean szostek on tue 5 aug 08


hi jon,
im firiing copper red and the experience tells me that the most beautifull
reds are the reds with a
frit in the recipe
my recipe is very simpel : frit (high alkaline) 55 / whiting 15 / kaolin 30
/ copper oxide 0,5
i fire this recipe in 8 H30 and heavy reduction from 850 C until 1100 C ,
than lighter reduction until the end, the cooling you can do experiments
because it is very interesting
greatings from belgium jean
www.szostekjean.be
----- Original Message -----
From: "jonathan byler"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: Firing the hell outta red


> Rikki,
>
> I don't know the specifics of the glazes in question, but everything
> I have ever read about copper reds shows what chuck wrote to be
> true. that is, that they tend to work out best when the glaze is
> very fluid. I think, because the red is actually refraction of light
> in the glaze itself and not primarily due to the color of red copper
> oxide, that this would make sense, as it is much easier to get
> crystals to form in liquids than in solids at regular atmospheric
> pressures.
>
>
> jon byler
> 3-D Building Coordinator
> Art Department
> Auburn University, AL 36849
>
> On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Rikki Gill wrote:
>
>> Hi Chuck,
>>
>> Do you know what temperature he fired to?
>>
>> Thanks for the information
>>
>> Rikki Gill
>> rikigil@sbcglobal.net
>> www.rikkigillceramics.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chuck T. Wagoner"
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:59 AM
>> Subject: Re: Firing the hell outta red
>>
>>
>>> I have Richard Peeler's old glaze note book and he notes that his
>>> copper
>>> reds seems to be better when the glaze has started to move a
>>> little bit.
>>>
>>> Here are some of his favorites,
>>>
>>> This one is attributed to Ed Littlefield
>>>
>>> Soda Spar 530
>>> CaCo 150
>>> Talc 40
>>> Zinc 50
>>> Kaolin 60
>>> Flint 170
>>> Tin 10
>>> Copper Ox 3
>>> Sil Carbide 3
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database:
> 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 5/08/2008 6:03
>
>
>

jonathan byler on tue 5 aug 08


Doe anyone know if the advantage of high amounts of sodium/potassium =20
in the glaze hav a direct chemical effect on the formation of copper =20
reds, or is it because alkaline glazes tend to be more fluid?


jon byler
3-D Building Coordinator
Art Department
Auburn University, AL 36849

On Aug 5, 2008, at 5:46 AM, jean szostek wrote:

> hi jon,
> im firiing copper red and the experience tells me that the most =20
> beautifull
> reds are the reds with a
> frit in the recipe
> my recipe is very simpel : frit (high alkaline) 55 / whiting 15 / =20
> kaolin 30
> / copper oxide 0,5
> i fire this recipe in 8 H30 and heavy reduction from 850=B0 C until =20=

> 1100=B0 C ,
> than lighter reduction until the end, the cooling you can do =20
> experiments
> because it is very interesting
> greatings from belgium jean
> www.szostekjean.be
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jonathan byler"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Firing the hell outta red
>
>
>> Rikki,
>>
>> I don't know the specifics of the glazes in question, but everything
>> I have ever read about copper reds shows what chuck wrote to be
>> true. that is, that they tend to work out best when the glaze is
>> very fluid. I think, because the red is actually refraction of light
>> in the glaze itself and not primarily due to the color of red copper
>> oxide, that this would make sense, as it is much easier to get
>> crystals to form in liquids than in solids at regular atmospheric
>> pressures.
>>
>>
>> jon byler
>> 3-D Building Coordinator
>> Art Department
>> Auburn University, AL 36849
>>
>> On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Rikki Gill wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Chuck,
>>>
>>> Do you know what temperature he fired to?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the information
>>>
>>> Rikki Gill
>>> rikigil@sbcglobal.net
>>> www.rikkigillceramics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Chuck T. Wagoner"
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:59 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Firing the hell outta red
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have Richard Peeler's old glaze note book and he notes that his
>>>> copper
>>>> reds seems to be better when the glaze has started to move a
>>>> little bit.
>>>>
>>>> Here are some of his favorites,
>>>>
>>>> This one is attributed to Ed Littlefield
>>>>
>>>> Soda Spar 530
>>>> CaCo 150
>>>> Talc 40
>>>> Zinc 50
>>>> Kaolin 60
>>>> Flint 170
>>>> Tin 10
>>>> Copper Ox 3
>>>> Sil Carbide 3
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus =20
>> Database:
>> 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 5/08/2008 6:03
>>
>>
>>

jean szostek on wed 6 aug 08


hi jon,
i think that natrium or sodium have the same influence as alkali frit , it
tends also to be very fluid
so the conclusen is that copper red glazes has to be fluid to give beautiful
colors.
karl platt has written a very good article on copper red and what happens al
the way
in my opinion the red is forming on the way up to, because i have tryd all
sort of coolings and it turns always up to red, only the cristalitation
happens to be different
greatings jean
----- Original Message -----
From: "jonathan byler"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Firing the hell outta red


Doe anyone know if the advantage of high amounts of sodium/potassium
in the glaze hav a direct chemical effect on the formation of copper
reds, or is it because alkaline glazes tend to be more fluid?


jon byler
3-D Building Coordinator
Art Department
Auburn University, AL 36849

On Aug 5, 2008, at 5:46 AM, jean szostek wrote:

> hi jon,
> im firiing copper red and the experience tells me that the most
> beautifull
> reds are the reds with a
> frit in the recipe
> my recipe is very simpel : frit (high alkaline) 55 / whiting 15 / kaolin
> 30
> / copper oxide 0,5
> i fire this recipe in 8 H30 and heavy reduction from 850 C until 1100 C
> ,
> than lighter reduction until the end, the cooling you can do experiments
> because it is very interesting
> greatings from belgium jean
> www.szostekjean.be
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jonathan byler"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 6:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Firing the hell outta red
>
>
>> Rikki,
>>
>> I don't know the specifics of the glazes in question, but everything
>> I have ever read about copper reds shows what chuck wrote to be
>> true. that is, that they tend to work out best when the glaze is
>> very fluid. I think, because the red is actually refraction of light
>> in the glaze itself and not primarily due to the color of red copper
>> oxide, that this would make sense, as it is much easier to get
>> crystals to form in liquids than in solids at regular atmospheric
>> pressures.
>>
>>
>> jon byler
>> 3-D Building Coordinator
>> Art Department
>> Auburn University, AL 36849
>>
>> On Aug 4, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Rikki Gill wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Chuck,
>>>
>>> Do you know what temperature he fired to?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the information
>>>
>>> Rikki Gill
>>> rikigil@sbcglobal.net
>>> www.rikkigillceramics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Chuck T. Wagoner"
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:59 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Firing the hell outta red
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have Richard Peeler's old glaze note book and he notes that his
>>>> copper
>>>> reds seems to be better when the glaze has started to move a
>>>> little bit.
>>>>
>>>> Here are some of his favorites,
>>>>
>>>> This one is attributed to Ed Littlefield
>>>>
>>>> Soda Spar 530
>>>> CaCo 150
>>>> Talc 40
>>>> Zinc 50
>>>> Kaolin 60
>>>> Flint 170
>>>> Tin 10
>>>> Copper Ox 3
>>>> Sil Carbide 3
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database:
>> 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 5/08/2008 6:03
>>
>>
>>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 5/08/2008
6:03

Ron Roy on sat 9 aug 08


Hi Chuck,

This looks like a cone 6 glaze if you look at the molecular formula - and
because it has silicon carbide I would guess it is not a reduction glaze.

If it is calculated as a reduction fired glaze - with the ZnO gone it looks
more like a cone 10 glaze - but I would leave out the silicon Carbide if I
fired it in reduction.

RR

>I have Richard Peeler's old glaze note book and he notes that his copper
>reds seems to be better when the glaze has started to move a little bit.
>
>Here are some of his favorites,
>
>This one is attributed to Ed Littlefield
>
>Soda Spar 530
>CaCo 150
>Talc 40
>Zinc 50
>Kaolin 60
>Flint 170
>Tin 10
>Copper Ox 3
>Sil Carbide 3

Ron Roy
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0