Kelly Savino on mon 17 mar 08
I was unloading/reloading two more glaze kilns at the guild last night,
and as hanging upside down seems to stimulate deep thought, I started
pondering the ethical weight of photographing student work.
One of the things I am supposed to have in my portfolio to apply to
certain positions is a sample of student work.
I have students ranging from never-touched-clay-before beginners, to
those who have worked in the past in other community programs, to guild
members with years of experience and some real skill.
I have students who have been in my class for six years and have really
improved, incorporating ideas from my demos and asking for feedback on
everything they make, before, during and after.
I have students who have been the same number of years in the same
class, and are still making the awkward pots they started with, despite
the same demos/feedback.
I have students who pay little attention to me and my song and dance at
all, and have made HUGE strides in their work, just by doing it.
To photograph any of this work seems a bit presumptuous. It seems based
on the assumption that somehow their work is a product of my
instruction, which itself seems based on the notion of education that
pictures student minds as empty buckets to be filled by a teacher.
This bugs me. Should it? It bugged me once when a teacher photographed a
pot of mine to which he really had made no contribution.
Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?
Yours
Kelly in Ohio... getting ready to play Othello with my Molly at the site
of the salt kiln, (5:00 p.m. Saturday and 1700F)... Molly's been helping
me sort wood chunks, pick up brick bits and tidy the kiln yard... and is
enjoying the sculpture studio, and students who are showing her how the
neat tools work.
John Post on tue 18 mar 08
Kelly,
I was at a Robert Piepenberg workshop and he said "Art is caught, not
taught." If you are a teacher it is hard to know who is learning what
and when. Some of the most profound things some of my teachers did or
said didn't really have an effect on me until years later. I have
been teaching kids long enough to have some of them go from being
elementary school kids to college graduates. When I hear which kids
credit me with influencing their choice to pursue art I am usually
surprised. It's not always the most talented, sometimes it's the kids
who just enjoy the art making process the most and keep at it.
Take pictures of your best student work only. Do everything top
notch. Edit things down. Quality is much more important than
quantity. (Every entry level ceramics class in the world has a shelf
full of ugly pots and no one needs to see those, they are the same
everywhere.)
Add a nice graphic to the top of your resume. If you are applying for
a job in a program that features strong functional wheel thrown work,
that graphic of you at the wheel on your blog could be nice. Nice
paper can give a resume a subtle tactile quality that can help it end
up at the top of the pile instead of the bottom. Don't go to Office
Max or Office Depot. Everyone uses their papers. Go to a good
quality paper and graphic supply house and find a paper with a nice
tooth. The resume that I use for teaching has a graphic at the top
that is hand colored on each resume. At every teaching interview I
have ever been to, the interviewers all comment on how nice the resume
looks and feel. Those subtle visual and tactile things help
communicate about you before you ever set foot in the door.
When I am looking for a new teaching position, I like to buy a new
suit, shoes, tie, briefcase etc. It's nice to walk in feeling like a
million bucks and looking like it too.
Remember to have fun on the interview. In all the teaching jobs I
have had, it is the only time someone actually wants to know what your
are going to teach about and how you are going to do it. Once you get
hired everyone is so busy doing their job they just don't have time to
care that much about what you are doing.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us :: cone 6 glaze website ::
http://www.wemakeart.org :: elementary art website ::
vpitelka on tue 18 mar 08
> Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?
Kelly -
Yes, you are making this much more complicated than you should. When you
teach, you should photograph the best of the student work. With some
students, you will have had a major impact, while with other students, the
work might be the same as what they were doing before they ever showed up in
their class. You can't waste your time thinking about that or trying to
analyze how much of an impact you have had on each student. You'd drive
yourself crazy doing that. It all evens out in the end if you are doing a
good job teaching. Just pick the very best work and photograph it, and do
that in every class, even after you get a full-time job. Pick the best of
those images and use them when you apply for jobs. Include the standard
labeling information on the 35mm slide or the individual digital image
files, and include a slide identification sheet that gives the number of the
slide or digital image, the name of the student, the medium, the year, and
the name of the class in which the work was produced. Be sure to identify
every student slide or digital image and the corresponding inventory sheet
very clearly as STUDENT WORK.
Do not include any additional information about the students or the classes
in which the work was created unless it has been specifically requested. Do
not clutter your application with any unnecessary information that has not
been requested in the job application requirements. You do not ever want it
to come across as if you are trying to impress them with a bunch of extra
information and materials, or that you cannot follow instructions. That
will backfire for sure. Just do a very professional job of including
everything that they ask for in the job application requirements. Always
include a cover letter and a CV. Otherwise include only what they ask for.
Do not include an artist's statement or a statement of teaching philosophy
unless they ask for them. Include exactly the number and variety of slides
and/or digital images that they ask for, and not a single one more. Always
include the images in exactly the format they ask for. If they do not
specify the format, then always submit images digitally as JPEGs no larger
than one megabyte. Do not EVER submit a PowerPoint presentation unless they
specifically ask for it.
These are not my own opinions. They are based on simple truths about how
things work in the world of academic job applications in college and
university art departments. The search committees (or the people processing
application packets even before the search committee sees them) can be
pretty ruthless when it comes to culling out application packets that don't
meet the requirements, and you want to make it as easy as possible for them
to find exactly the information they need.
The following IS my own opinion, but it's based on a lot of experience in
this area. There is one gray area - sometimes the school that has
advertised the job will ask for the names of referees, but won't
specifically ask for letters of reference. I have often been asked to write
letters anyway, and I always agree to do that, because I don't believe it
can hurt and I know that sometimes it helps. But do not ever include the
letters in your application package (even in sealed, signed envelopes)
unless the school has asked that they be included that way. Always have the
referees send the letters directly to the address specified in the
application information. When someone on the receiving end examines the job
application file, which includes the packet you have sent and anything else
they have received, I believe that letters of recommendation are always a
positive presence, even if they have not been requested. At the least, it
might encourage the search committee to call the referees.
I hope this is helpful.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Dawn Kleinman on tue 18 mar 08
What if you showed 2 or more pics at a time? Like a series - to show their improvement. That would show your competence as a teacher.
I have twins. When they were about 8 years old my daughter wanted to learn how to throw like me. She tried and tried over time and she really isn't that good - still - and she's 13. She wants to get good but to no no avail. My son had it by the 2nd pot. He couldn't care less. He'll sit down maybe once every 6 months and - BOOM - throw this great little pot. But, if I showed my daughter's work from when she was 8 to what she can do now, she is learning and has improved.
Good luck
Dawn , near Philly
Kelly Savino wrote:
I was unloading/reloading two more glaze kilns at the guild last night,
and as hanging upside down seems to stimulate deep thought, I started
pondering the ethical weight of photographing student work.
One of the things I am supposed to have in my portfolio to apply to
certain positions is a sample of student work.
I have students ranging from never-touched-clay-before beginners, to
those who have worked in the past in other community programs, to guild
members with years of experience and some real skill.
I have students who have been in my class for six years and have really
improved, incorporating ideas from my demos and asking for feedback on
everything they make, before, during and after.
I have students who have been the same number of years in the same
class, and are still making the awkward pots they started with, despite
the same demos/feedback.
I have students who pay little attention to me and my song and dance at
all, and have made HUGE strides in their work, just by doing it.
To photograph any of this work seems a bit presumptuous. It seems based
on the assumption that somehow their work is a product of my
instruction, which itself seems based on the notion of education that
pictures student minds as empty buckets to be filled by a teacher.
This bugs me. Should it? It bugged me once when a teacher photographed a
pot of mine to which he really had made no contribution.
Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?
Yours
Kelly in Ohio... getting ready to play Othello with my Molly at the site
of the salt kiln, (5:00 p.m. Saturday and 1700F)... Molly's been helping
me sort wood chunks, pick up brick bits and tidy the kiln yard... and is
enjoying the sculpture studio, and students who are showing her how the
neat tools work.
______________________________________________________________________________
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Tony Ferguson on tue 18 mar 08
Yes. The committee knows what you are dealing with. You will be fresh out of graduate school so it really doesn't matter--they are going to look at your work and you. They know your student work portfolio is from grad school. Let me know when I can apply to be your student.
Tony
Kelly Savino wrote: I was unloading/reloading two more glaze kilns at the guild last night,
and as hanging upside down seems to stimulate deep thought, I started
pondering the ethical weight of photographing student work.
One of the things I am supposed to have in my portfolio to apply to
certain positions is a sample of student work.
I have students ranging from never-touched-clay-before beginners, to
those who have worked in the past in other community programs, to guild
members with years of experience and some real skill.
I have students who have been in my class for six years and have really
improved, incorporating ideas from my demos and asking for feedback on
everything they make, before, during and after.
I have students who have been the same number of years in the same
class, and are still making the awkward pots they started with, despite
the same demos/feedback.
I have students who pay little attention to me and my song and dance at
all, and have made HUGE strides in their work, just by doing it.
To photograph any of this work seems a bit presumptuous. It seems based
on the assumption that somehow their work is a product of my
instruction, which itself seems based on the notion of education that
pictures student minds as empty buckets to be filled by a teacher.
This bugs me. Should it? It bugged me once when a teacher photographed a
pot of mine to which he really had made no contribution.
Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?
Yours
Kelly in Ohio... getting ready to play Othello with my Molly at the site
of the salt kiln, (5:00 p.m. Saturday and 1700F)... Molly's been helping
me sort wood chunks, pick up brick bits and tidy the kiln yard... and is
enjoying the sculpture studio, and students who are showing her how the
neat tools work.
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
---------------------------------
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Pottery by John on tue 18 mar 08
Kelly Savino said:
"One of the things I am supposed to have in my portfolio to apply to certain
positions is a sample of student work...This bugs me... Am I making this
more complicated than it needs to be?"
Yes. In my observation as a student, I have been influenced by each
instructor in some way, and thus my work product is influenced as well. It
may be through the application of a technique observed during a demo that I
could use immediately, or application later when I was finally able to gain
the skill, or understanding, to apply the technique, or through just
realizing that a technique doesn't work for me, and why. Thus there are
things gained from each instructor, even those that I may not have paid as
much attention to, or agreed with.
So, I think if you have permission to include photos of a students work in
your portfolio as a teacher, you deserve the credit to claim some influence.
You might discuss in which work of a student most felt your influence during
the making and include pictures of just those pieces. That should give you
a clear conscience. My two cents worth.
John Lowes
Sandy Springs GA
William & Susan Schran User on tue 18 mar 08
On 3/17/08 10:41 PM, "Kelly Savino" wrote:
> To photograph any of this work seems a bit presumptuous. It seems based
> on the assumption that somehow their work is a product of my
> instruction, which itself seems based on the notion of education that
> pictures student minds as empty buckets to be filled by a teacher.
>
> This bugs me. Should it? It bugged me once when a teacher photographed a
> pot of mine to which he really had made no contribution.
>
> Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?
Kelly,
Yes, you're making more of this than necessary.
Just think of providing images of your students' work as a part of your
resume, a component that validates your instructional competency.
I did the same thing 30 years ago when I was hired to teach...
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Dannon Rhudy on tue 18 mar 08
Yeah, you're making it WAY more difficult than
it needs to be. Almost every job you apply for,
they will ask for images of YOUR work, and images
of your STUDENTS work. If you don't send what
they want, you will instantly go on the discard pile.
They want what they want. Besides which, if
they've asked and you don't provide and someone
else does, it makes problems for them. There is
supposed to be some parity in their searches. And
everybody sues........
THEY know that sometimes we're lucky in our
students. Choose the very best work you can find
of what your students have done, photograph it
well, and send it on. You do not need to choose
a "body of work" doing this, obviously. Choose the
best stuff, from wheel to sculpture or whatever is
available. I always photographed student work at
the end of each semester, gave the students a copy
of their image(s). They were pleased; they knew
what it was for, no one ever said no. When I was
a student, some of my profs photographed MY work.
But not when I was a beginner - they didn't need those
images. They wanted the best they could summon up.
I was in my final undergrad year before any asked for images
of my work. Good judgement on their part.
Get those images, and get more than you need. What will
be asked for depends on what they need in their teacher.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
.......... students ranging from never-touched-clay-before beginners, to
guild members with years of experience and some real skill............
tony clennell on tue 18 mar 08
Kelly: Firstly, thanx for putting me on to this concept that not only
are you responsible for showing your own body of work but your
students too. Well, you'd have to be a mental midget to show the work
of your worst students or even the beginners. Show only the best as
you would your own work. The dogs remain in the dog house.
I have the good fortune of teaching at a great school with high
achieving students that make me look more creative than I really am. I
will pick the creme de la creme to put on my CD. That's 7 years at
Sheridan times 15 students a year graduating so I have 105 students to
pick and choose from. Most are All Stars so it makes me look like a
magician.
My plan has always been to surround myself with talented people and
it's working.
Cheers,
Tony
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Kelly Savino
wrote:
> I was unloading/reloading two more glaze kilns at the guild last night,
> and as hanging upside down seems to stimulate deep thought, I started
> pondering the ethical weight of photographing student work.
>
> One of the things I am supposed to have in my portfolio to apply to
> certain positions is a sample of student work.
>
> I have students ranging from never-touched-clay-before beginners, to
> those who have worked in the past in other community programs, to guild
> members with years of experience and some real skill.
>
> I have students who have been in my class for six years and have really
> improved, incorporating ideas from my demos and asking for feedback on
> everything they make, before, during and after.
>
> I have students who have been the same number of years in the same
> class, and are still making the awkward pots they started with, despite
> the same demos/feedback.
>
> I have students who pay little attention to me and my song and dance at
> all, and have made HUGE strides in their work, just by doing it.
>
> To photograph any of this work seems a bit presumptuous. It seems based
> on the assumption that somehow their work is a product of my
> instruction, which itself seems based on the notion of education that
> pictures student minds as empty buckets to be filled by a teacher.
>
> This bugs me. Should it? It bugged me once when a teacher photographed a
> pot of mine to which he really had made no contribution.
>
> Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?
>
> Yours
> Kelly in Ohio... getting ready to play Othello with my Molly at the site
> of the salt kiln, (5:00 p.m. Saturday and 1700F)... Molly's been helping
> me sort wood chunks, pick up brick bits and tidy the kiln yard... and is
> enjoying the sculpture studio, and students who are showing her how the
> neat tools work.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
Lee on tue 18 mar 08
I suppose, if your taking credit for teaching, they want to see the
product of what you teach. I disagree with Lili about it being any
kind of compromise.
It is like saying you are a writer. You prove it with samples
of your writing.
So, the real question is: Is the work of your
students validation of your teaching success? Or would it
be more advantageous not to claim it as experience?
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Fred Parker on wed 19 mar 08
Hey Kelly:
I don't think it should bug you.
Granted, it is yet another instance of the irrelevant hoop-jumping imposed
on those seeking education. However, given the myriad options you have
available to you I believe you can easily turn it to your great credit.
For instance, you have an opportunity to illustrate tremendous RANGE. To
hell with whether you had anything to do with it or not -- it's all
irrelevant anyway -- just pick examples from the best and worst. What
better way could there be to illustrate your own capabilities to cope with
whatever gets thrown your way?
Another thought: include a collection of work illustrating (celebrating?)
exactly the frustrations you mentioned of coping with those students who
seem incapable of improving. That is a phenomenon of interest to
educators. Play it in a way that shows you are aware (and driven) by that
specific issue. You will appear a much more savvy educator than someone
who mysteriously has only little Hamadas in their classes.
Yet another approach: if you are a good photographer and still have
opportunities to do so, shoot a series that shows process. By "process" I
mean the intensity and effort some students will put into it. It's not
all about a result measured by criteria a seasoned potter would
appreciate. Educating students is an exercise in relativity. I have had
adult students become so engaged in their art that I actually began to
worry about the stress they imposed on themselves. I like to believe that
kind of intensity is, in part, a product of the instructor's guidance
coupling with something inside the student. Whatever it is, if you get a
lot of it -- or even some of it -- you are probably doing something right.
My wife and I have a little private thing going on between us because she
is uncomfortable going against the rules, whether implied or real. As a
teacher, she has always been in an environment where following the rules
is a big deal. I am not that way, and rarely follow the rules if jail
time or fines are not involved. She is sometimes uncomfortable entering a
store through a door marked "Exit." If the exit is the first door I
reach, I will always use it even if I have to pry it open.
You might be laboring under some of this yourself. The requirement to
submit "samples of student work" can be interpreted in at least two ways.
One of them is to submit samples of student work, meaning images of clay
things your students have made. (don't use the exit door to enter)
The other way to look at it is this: here is a wonderful opportunity to
creatively use any part or aspect of my teaching experience to illustrate
how much I REALLY understand about what teaching these little demons is
REALLY all about.
If I were a school principal screening resumes I know which teacher I
would want to interview.
I'll be interested to hear how this turns out...
Fred Parker
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:41:41 -0700, Kelly Savino
wrote:
>I was unloading/reloading two more glaze kilns at the guild last night,
>and as hanging upside down seems to stimulate deep thought, I started
>pondering the ethical weight of photographing student work.
>
>One of the things I am supposed to have in my portfolio to apply to
>certain positions is a sample of student work.
>
>I have students ranging from never-touched-clay-before beginners, to
>those who have worked in the past in other community programs, to guild
>members with years of experience and some real skill.
>
>I have students who have been in my class for six years and have really
>improved, incorporating ideas from my demos and asking for feedback on
>everything they make, before, during and after.
>
>I have students who have been the same number of years in the same
>class, and are still making the awkward pots they started with, despite
>the same demos/feedback.
>
>I have students who pay little attention to me and my song and dance at
>all, and have made HUGE strides in their work, just by doing it.
>
>To photograph any of this work seems a bit presumptuous. It seems based
>on the assumption that somehow their work is a product of my
>instruction, which itself seems based on the notion of education that
>pictures student minds as empty buckets to be filled by a teacher.
>
>This bugs me. Should it? It bugged me once when a teacher photographed a
>pot of mine to which he really had made no contribution.
>
>Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be?
>
>Yours
>Kelly in Ohio... getting ready to play Othello with my Molly at the site
>of the salt kiln, (5:00 p.m. Saturday and 1700F)... Molly's been helping
>me sort wood chunks, pick up brick bits and tidy the kiln yard... and is
>enjoying the sculpture studio, and students who are showing her how the
>neat tools work.
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
____
>Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
>subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
stephani stephenson on wed 19 mar 08
Kelly
Think about it ? yes. consternate about ? Nah.
the fact is,(see caveat below) , to get in the
application front door for many positions you will
need to provide 20 images of student work as well as
images of your old work. no student names will be
revealed in that process.
it always seemed especially odd to me... for the
applicant who is starting out...who has taught
beginning ceramics at a college or craft center, where
work is wildly different and the time spent teaching
is relatively brief.... but it is part of the packet
. take lots of photos, choose the best you can at the
time.
i like to think the best teachers encourage individual
strengths and interests, via motivation and
skills...not work that copies their own...work that
demonstrates student acquisition of skills , yes, but
also an essential aliveness.... ...
for someone who is teaching ceramics for a quarter
here and there, you may not see much of an effect that
you can say 'i influenced this as a teacher', the
turnover of time is so fast, and skill levels,
interests, etc. vary wildly, but it is what it is
for the time being. document, show it, and keep it
growing.
steph
(caveat: fact ,schmact...... at least that is how it
use to be, i admit i my experience with this is
ancient, in the 90s, so much so ,all we had were
slides back then so i don't even know if schools still
ask for slides..if everything has changed please
disregard this entire post, but do disregard it
dramatically,print it and burn it in the kiln, oops
no, that would only make for a large carbon footprint,
by the way do carbon footprints come in different
styles?...if they do, would it not follow that a
birkenstock carbon footprint would be larger than a
stiletto carbon footprint? hmmmm....)
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