tony clennell on thu 28 feb 08
I have felt uncomfortable with all this bad press for Geil kilns. I
have had nothing but great service from the man himself- Paul Geil and
wear his t-shirt proudly. I also believe he is making the best kiln
in the country so the kiln shelf thread has got me wondering if those
that are complaining are men or mice. The guy himself will be at his
booth at Nceca- Pittsburgh. You got laundry to clean well there's
your chance. Face to face with the Prez himself. You've smeared him
and now you have a chance to really roll up your sleeves.
As for the Chinese shelves being inferior I beg to differ. We fire
ours 25 glaze, 25 bisques a year, never flip them and they are
straight as an arrow- 4 years now and oh yeah we crash cool.
Geil is a great kiln company! Talk to the man himself. i think he will be fair!
Cheers,
tony
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
Paul Vernier on fri 29 feb 08
I bought the same shelves from Baileys. Good price. Outstanding packaging.
Still had a shelf break in transit. No problem, quick resolution.
Good people to work with.
Paul
in Santa Cruz, being a weather snob during our 70 degree days
Ulland, Debra on fri 29 feb 08
I have had a geil kiln at my high school for 8 years and i have to agree =
with Tony about it being the best kiln I have ever had. Whenever I have =
had a question or a problen I have gotten quick attention from Paul or =
someone in his office. I too am bothered by what i see as a smear =
against him and his product. Just my 2 pennies
Debra Ulland
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of tony
clennell
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 4:30 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Geil shelves- Of mice and men
I have felt uncomfortable with all this bad press for Geil kilns. I
have had nothing but great service from the man himself- Paul Geil and
wear his t-shirt proudly. I also believe he is making the best kiln
in the country so the kiln shelf thread has got me wondering if those
that are complaining are men or mice. The guy himself will be at his
booth at Nceca- Pittsburgh. You got laundry to clean well there's
your chance. Face to face with the Prez himself. You've smeared him
and now you have a chance to really roll up your sleeves.
As for the Chinese shelves being inferior I beg to differ. We fire
ours 25 glaze, 25 bisques a year, never flip them and they are
straight as an arrow- 4 years now and oh yeah we crash cool.
Geil is a great kiln company! Talk to the man himself. i think he will =
be fair!
Cheers,
tony
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: =
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots2@visi.com
Larry Kruzan on fri 29 feb 08
Hi Tony,
I did talk to Paul on the phone, in private at NCECA last year and got no
where except promises, then I started getting suddenly "disconnected", sorry
but I did get left high and dry by him. My shelves were damaged in shipping
due to poor packaging, there was no damage to the box they were in, or the
pallet the box was tied to. It was entirely their fault - and I was told to
go suck a egg.
The spry gun was three week old - was never dropped - stored in a drawer and
the cup split along a forming seam. Should be no issue - but it was.
There are companies I have dealt with that I have never needed customer
service from and as far as I know they are great-but when you need help with
something like this and they blow you off you find out who is really good
and who just talks a good "game". Geil talks - so I walk and advise others
to do the same.
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of tony clennell
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:30 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: [CLAYART] Geil shelves- Of mice and men
I have felt uncomfortable with all this bad press for Geil kilns. I
have had nothing but great service from the man himself- Paul Geil and
wear his t-shirt proudly. I also believe he is making the best kiln
in the country so the kiln shelf thread has got me wondering if those
that are complaining are men or mice. The guy himself will be at his
booth at Nceca- Pittsburgh. You got laundry to clean well there's
your chance. Face to face with the Prez himself. You've smeared him
and now you have a chance to really roll up your sleeves.
As for the Chinese shelves being inferior I beg to differ. We fire
ours 25 glaze, 25 bisques a year, never flip them and they are
straight as an arrow- 4 years now and oh yeah we crash cool.
Geil is a great kiln company! Talk to the man himself. i think he will be
fair!
Cheers,
tony
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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Tony Ferguson on fri 29 feb 08
I've been feeling the same way about this bad press as he does make the best kiln I've ever fired and wondering why Geil hasn't chimed in himself. I am surprised he has not followed through as many of you have said. I do know that he got a bad batch (like a crate from China via Canada I recall) of kiln shelves and dealing with the person he bought the shelves from was a nightmare and was looking for a new supplier; that said, communicating with your customers about what is going on is always a good thing. I think Tony's suggestions of taking it up directly with Geil at NCECA face to face is the way to do it--that is what I would do. I believe he will make things right if given the opportunity.
Tony Ferguson
tony clennell wrote: I have felt uncomfortable with all this bad press for Geil kilns. I
have had nothing but great service from the man himself- Paul Geil and
wear his t-shirt proudly. I also believe he is making the best kiln
in the country so the kiln shelf thread has got me wondering if those
that are complaining are men or mice. The guy himself will be at his
booth at Nceca- Pittsburgh. You got laundry to clean well there's
your chance. Face to face with the Prez himself. You've smeared him
and now you have a chance to really roll up your sleeves.
As for the Chinese shelves being inferior I beg to differ. We fire
ours 25 glaze, 25 bisques a year, never flip them and they are
straight as an arrow- 4 years now and oh yeah we crash cool.
Geil is a great kiln company! Talk to the man himself. i think he will be fair!
Cheers,
tony
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Fred Parker on sat 1 mar 08
Hey Tony:
Gotta weigh in here. As much as I covet your "Handles" DVD, and as much
as I get my painties into a tight, moist little wad just looking at some
of your incredible work I'm afraid we have very different views on this
one...
As I understand Mark's problem with Geil shelves, he purchased them at
retail prices based on Geil's representation of their quality and
performance; he used them reasonably and consistent with the purpose for
which they were sold. Yet he experienced incremental failures of the
shelves after a relatively short use period of a couple or three years. I
also understand that he contacted the company and was essentially put
off. Based on what I've heard, Mark did all the right things, but when it
went bad the company essentially disappeared.
I strongly disagree with any suggestion that buyers should keep quiet
about these things until they have an opportunity to cozy up to the
president of whatever company did it to them. What if he can't go to
NCECA? What if the president won't hear them? What if he's just
naturally bashful in the presence of company presidents, or intimidated by
these matters? I don't believe any consumer has an obligation to go easy
on anyone who has had the problem explained to them THEN opted to
marginalize/minimize/ignore the victim.
A couple of years ago I bought a CI wheel with problems. I never spoke
with the company president, but I certainly wasn't shy about speaking with
whoever answered the phone at CI.. In time, they not only replaced my
wheel but they upgraded it to the next step up. When it began I was the
epitome of pissedoff/frustrated. WHen it ended I believed (and still do)
that CI treated me fairly. After all, I did pay for the wheel when I
bought it, and before it was over they made sure I felt amply compensated
for my investment. Fair deal.
I don't know Mr. Geil but I will take your word that he is a good and
honorable person -- maybe even a good guy to sit down over an adult
beverage with. However, as a Veteran of Retail (I once owned and managed
an automobile painting franchise, or as some describe it "a small business
in the pits of hell itself") I know the owner sets policy AND the owner
reaps the rewards or otherwise of that policy. And yes, I also know there
are a few consumers out there who will do anything to screw a retailer.
Some are very good at it. I don't think that's what's happening here.
Finally, because Mark went public with the facts of this matter does not,
in my opinion, constitute a "smear" of Mr. Geil as you said. The truth is
what it is. I assume Mark is telling it. If the truth makes Mr. Geil and
his company look bad I would think Mr. Geil and his company would be eager
to set things straight. For one, I am grateful that someone who has first-
hand experience with that company's customer service methods sees fit to
share it with the rest of us ... in case I am ever in the market for their
products.
Just because you got this one wrong doesn't mean you're a bad person...
Fred Parker
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:30:23 -0500, tony clennell
wrote:
>I have felt uncomfortable with all this bad press for Geil kilns. I
>have had nothing but great service from the man himself- Paul Geil and
>wear his t-shirt proudly. I also believe he is making the best kiln
>in the country so the kiln shelf thread has got me wondering if those
>that are complaining are men or mice. The guy himself will be at his
>booth at Nceca- Pittsburgh. You got laundry to clean well there's
>your chance. Face to face with the Prez himself. You've smeared him
>and now you have a chance to really roll up your sleeves.
>As for the Chinese shelves being inferior I beg to differ. We fire
>ours 25 glaze, 25 bisques a year, never flip them and they are
>straight as an arrow- 4 years now and oh yeah we crash cool.
>Geil is a great kiln company! Talk to the man himself. i think he will be
fair!
>Cheers,
>tony
>
>--
>http://sourcherrypottery.com
>http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
____
>Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
>subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Lois Ruben Aronow on mon 3 mar 08
I think people react differently. Some people may take a kinder approach to
a problem, which will often result in a better response. Those who are
quick to blame may get the brush-off; or feel like they did.
The short answer is: the experiences are different because we're all
different people.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Earl Brunner
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:54 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Geil shelves- Of mice and men
I find it curious that people can have such widely different experiences
from the same supplier. Why do some people get good service and others not?
What is the underlying cause? I alsofind it interesting that loyalty to the
supplier seems to cause individuals to dismiss the problems others are
having.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
----- Original Message ----
From: KATHI LESUEUR
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 6:04:02 AM
Subject: Re: Geil shelves- Of mice and men
On Feb 29, 2008, at 10:21 AM, Ulland, Debra wrote:
> I have had a geil kiln at my high school for 8 years and i have to
> agree with Tony about it being the best kiln I have ever had.
> Whenever I have had a question or a problen I have gotten quick
> attention from Paul or someone in his office. I too am bothered by
> what i see as a smear against him and his product. Just my 2 pennies
>
> Debra Ulland
Geil may make a great kiln. It sounds like it from all of the people who
have them. But, it isn't a smear to state the truth when it comes to shelves
they've supplied that were defective. It is not a smear to state the truth
that they would not make good on this product when it failed. If it were one
person, it could be a fluke.
When it's many with the same experience, it's a pattern. Not a pretty
pattern. I thought my experience with Laguna shelves was unique until I
posted my experience on Clayart. The flood of responses from people who had
the same problem and lack of response by Laguna showed me I was not alone.
If they had immediately stopped shipping shelves until they got the problem
fixed I'd have respect for them. But, they just kept shipping and people
kept complaining. As far as I can tell the only thing they changed is to add
a disclaimer in their catalog informing the buyer that they aren't
responsible for cracked shelves.
Such a contrast with the Bailey experience where shelves were replaced in
days.
Kathi LeSueur
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
KATHI LESUEUR on mon 3 mar 08
On Feb 29, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
> Hi Tony,
>
> I did talk to Paul on the phone, in private at NCECA last year and
> got no
> where except promises, then I started getting suddenly
> "disconnected", sorry
> but I did get left high and dry by him. My shelves were damaged in
> shipping
> due to poor packaging, there was no damage to the box they were in,
> or the
> pallet the box was tied to. It was entirely their fault - and I
> was told to
> go suck a egg.
>
> The spry gun was three week old - was never dropped - stored in a
> drawer and
> the cup split along a forming seam. Should be no issue - but it was.
>
> There are companies I have dealt with that I have never needed
> customer
> service from and as far as I know they are great-but when you need
> help with
> something like this and they blow you off you find out who is
> really good
> and who just talks a good "game". Geil talks - so I walk and
> advise others
> to do the same.
>
>
> Larry Kruzan
> Lost Creek Pottery
> www.lostcreekpottery.com
To add to this thread, I buy my clay from Armadillo in Austin, TX.
In 1985 I got a shipment that had problems with shivering. I called
Craig. He sent a truck to pick the clay up. Sent it to a taxidermist
where it would be just fine, and then replaced the clay I'd bought
with a new batch. I've never had a problem since. When I moved back
to Michigan I stayed with Armadillo clay. I liked the clay and felt
they had earned my support.
Just because a company is small doesn't mean they can't provide good
service.
Kathi LeSueur
>
>
>
>
>
> -
KATHI LESUEUR on mon 3 mar 08
On Feb 29, 2008, at 10:21 AM, Ulland, Debra wrote:
> I have had a geil kiln at my high school for 8 years and i have to
> agree with Tony about it being the best kiln I have ever had.
> Whenever I have had a question or a problen I have gotten quick
> attention from Paul or someone in his office. I too am bothered by
> what i see as a smear against him and his product. Just my 2 pennies
>
> Debra Ulland
Geil may make a great kiln. It sounds like it from all of the people
who have them. But, it isn't a smear to state the truth when it
comes to shelves they've supplied that were defective. It is not a
smear to state the truth that they would not make good on this
product when it failed. If it were one person, it could be a fluke.
When it's many with the same experience, it's a pattern. Not a pretty
pattern. I thought my experience with Laguna shelves was unique until
I posted my experience on Clayart. The flood of responses from people
who had the same problem and lack of response by Laguna showed me I
was not alone. If they had immediately stopped shipping shelves
until they got the problem fixed I'd have respect for them. But, they
just kept shipping and people kept complaining. As far as I can tell
the only thing they changed is to add a disclaimer in their catalog
informing the buyer that they aren't responsible for cracked shelves.
Such a contrast with the Bailey experience where shelves were
replaced in days.
Kathi LeSueur
Earl Brunner on mon 3 mar 08
I find it curious that people can have such widely different experiences from the same supplier. Why do some people get good service and others not? What is the underlying cause? I alsofind it interesting that loyalty to the supplier seems to cause individuals to dismiss the problems others are having.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
----- Original Message ----
From: KATHI LESUEUR
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2008 6:04:02 AM
Subject: Re: Geil shelves- Of mice and men
On Feb 29, 2008, at 10:21 AM, Ulland, Debra wrote:
> I have had a geil kiln at my high school for 8 years and i have to
> agree with Tony about it being the best kiln I have ever had.
> Whenever I have had a question or a problen I have gotten quick
> attention from Paul or someone in his office. I too am bothered by
> what i see as a smear against him and his product. Just my 2 pennies
>
> Debra Ulland
Geil may make a great kiln. It sounds like it from all of the people
who have them. But, it isn't a smear to state the truth when it
comes to shelves they've supplied that were defective. It is not a
smear to state the truth that they would not make good on this
product when it failed. If it were one person, it could be a fluke.
When it's many with the same experience, it's a pattern. Not a pretty
pattern. I thought my experience with Laguna shelves was unique until
I posted my experience on Clayart. The flood of responses from people
who had the same problem and lack of response by Laguna showed me I
was not alone. If they had immediately stopped shipping shelves
until they got the problem fixed I'd have respect for them. But, they
just kept shipping and people kept complaining. As far as I can tell
the only thing they changed is to add a disclaimer in their catalog
informing the buyer that they aren't responsible for cracked shelves.
Such a contrast with the Bailey experience where shelves were
replaced in days.
Kathi LeSueur
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