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can i get a purple glaze from manganese? (^6 ox)

updated sat 23 feb 08

 

Paul Gruner on sat 16 feb 08


I'd like a to try a manganese purple glaze but I'm not sure what kind of
base to put it in. Usually when I see manganese it's used for some shade
of brown, like honey or oatmeal or "Field Mouse Brown."

Chappell says that manganese will yield purple in alkaline glazes and in
borosilicate glazes, so I was thinking about trying something like this:

30 Frit 3110
24 Frit 3134
20 G-200 Feldspar
17 EPK
9 Silica
Add (I dunno - let's say) 6% manganese dioxide.

There's plenty of sodium and boron, but also a bunch of calcium. Will it
work? What oxides will make manganese go brown, and which ones will
support the purple?

Thanks in advance.
-Paul

Nancy on sun 17 feb 08


Alisa

Oh I didn't mean it in any bad way. I get leary posting to list when
people as for specifics because there is so much controversy about
people asking questions about topics discussed at one time or another.
I don't post a whole lot because of this and I only posted to the group
because some people have spam filters that don't allow message to go
through and are sitting in their spam folder. I don't believe in
"glaze" secrets. They are glazes and it's just a formulation. Please
feel free to take it test use it. I more than likely found it from
someone else :)

Here is the recipe

Neph Sye 18
Frit 3134 14
Whiting 20
Kentucky Ball Clay 18
Silica 30


Chrome Oxide 0.2
Tin Oxide 3.75
Cobalt Carbonate 0.6


Nancy


Alisa Clausen wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 09:16:11 -0500, Nancy
> wrote:
>
>
>> Paul
>>
>> I have sent you and email with a glaze I use quite often.
>>
>>
>
> Hi Nancy
> I feel taunted, Off list you have sent the glaze recipe to Paul, and on
> list let all of know that, but not the formula!! Is it one you would like
> to keep to yourself or maybe we could see it? Of course, all right if it
> is not for sharing. I need some testing kick offs just now.
>
> Paul, what type of purple are you looking for? Is it the color, or is it
> getting it from Manganese? Purples are often obtained with Cobalt in
> Magneium Mats, Dolomite the source, but often lilac and perwinkle blues,
> like May's fine Currie grid. Glossy tin/chromes are deep red purples.
>
> If it the Manganese, I would like to make some trials (using caution when
> handling).
>
> Best regards from Alisa in Denmark
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
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>
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>
>

Melissa Schooley on sun 17 feb 08


Hi Paul

any cone six "purple" glaze that I have worked with gets it's colour
from manganese carbonate and cobalt oxide. About 2% manganese carbonate
and 0.2 - 0.3% cobalt oxide. In any of my tests I found that the particle size
of manganese dioxide was too large and I kept getting brown speckles in my glaze.
And make sure your kiln is WELL vented, manganese fumes are TOXIC.

hope that helps.

Melissa Schooley

Raging Bowl Pottery

www.ragingbowlpottery.com



Handmade Porcelain Celebrating the Art of Fine Craft







-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Can I get a purple glaze from manganese? (^6 ox)

From: Paul Gruner <grunerap@YAHOO.COM>

Date: Sat, February 16, 2008 6:01 pm

To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG



I'd like a to try a manganese purple glaze but I'm not sure what kind of

base to put it in. Usually when I see manganese it's used for some shade

of brown, like honey or oatmeal or "Field Mouse Brown."



Chappell says that manganese will yield purple in alkaline glazes and in

borosilicate glazes, so I was thinking about trying something like this:



30 Frit 3110

24 Frit 3134

20 G-200 Feldspar

17 EPK

9 Silica

Add (I dunno - let's say) 6% manganese dioxide.



There's plenty of sodium and boron, but also a bunch of calcium. Will it

work? What oxides will make manganese go brown, and which ones will

support the purple?



Thanks in advance.

-Paul



______________________________________________________________________________

Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org



You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your

subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/



Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com




Nancy on sun 17 feb 08


Paul

I have sent you and email with a glaze I use quite often.

Nancy

Paul Gruner wrote:
> I'd like a to try a manganese purple glaze but I'm not sure what kind of
> base to put it in. Usually when I see manganese it's used for some shade
> of brown, like honey or oatmeal or "Field Mouse Brown."
>
> Chappell says that manganese will yield purple in alkaline glazes and in
> borosilicate glazes, so I was thinking about trying something like this:
>
> 30 Frit 3110
> 24 Frit 3134
> 20 G-200 Feldspar
> 17 EPK
> 9 Silica
> Add (I dunno - let's say) 6% manganese dioxide.
>
> There's plenty of sodium and boron, but also a bunch of calcium. Will it
> work? What oxides will make manganese go brown, and which ones will
> support the purple?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> -Paul
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
>

May Luk on sun 17 feb 08


Hello Paul;

Instead of fishing with one hook(recipe) at a time, why not cast a net with a Currie Grid?

I make my purple glaze with cobalt in a high magnesia base glaze. The color is off in the photo because I don't have a good camera, but you get the idea.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yamerica/1792919083/

I fired this grid once with cone 9 plus and another time with cone 8. The purple showed up in different part of the grid. If I fire in cone 6, I can still get what I want because there are many variations of Al:Si ratios, some desired effect bounds to show up. Glazemaster helps in showing the limits in a Currie Grid in a chart.

Just another way to tackle a task.

Regards
May
Kings County

Alisa Clausen on sun 17 feb 08


On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 09:16:11 -0500, Nancy
wrote:

>Paul
>
>I have sent you and email with a glaze I use quite often.
>

Hi Nancy
I feel taunted, Off list you have sent the glaze recipe to Paul, and on
list let all of know that, but not the formula!! Is it one you would like
to keep to yourself or maybe we could see it? Of course, all right if it
is not for sharing. I need some testing kick offs just now.

Paul, what type of purple are you looking for? Is it the color, or is it
getting it from Manganese? Purples are often obtained with Cobalt in
Magneium Mats, Dolomite the source, but often lilac and perwinkle blues,
like May's fine Currie grid. Glossy tin/chromes are deep red purples.

If it the Manganese, I would like to make some trials (using caution when
handling).

Best regards from Alisa in Denmark

Paul Gruner on mon 18 feb 08


Alisa, I sent a reply but it got lost in cyberspace. I'll try again.

Right now I am interested in manganese and finding out what colors can be
coaxed from it. You see, a few weeks ago I tried to make Field Mouse Brown
from MC6G, but I only made a small batch and I didn't have an accurate
scale for measuring the oxides. I ended up with a gray with a slightly
purple tinge. I kind of like it, but I'd like to see more purple and less
gray.

I like the chrome-tin pink or raspberry glazes and I imagine that'd make a
nice glossy purple with a little cobalt added in. It's just not what I'm
looking for this time. The cobalt-magnesium glaze is also cool. I'm going
to try both of them when I have time.

A grid test, or at least a line test, is a good idea. I just thought I'd
ask the Clayartists for advice on which fluxes will support the purple
side of manganese, or what might kill it, so I have a starting place for
my tests.

When I get some tests done, I'll post pictures.

Thanks all,
-Paul Gruner

John Sankey on tue 19 feb 08


Searching for "purple" in the glaze database
http://sankey.ws/glazedata.html
got lots of hits, but only one using manganese and it was
reported as a failure on the purple part:

A: Lubbock Honey Brown
C: 6
E: 30 spodumene
E: 20 flint
E: 14 Colemanite
E: 13 talc
E: 7 dolomite
E: 6 rutile
E: 5 kaolin,EPK
E: 3 Bentonite
E: 2 manganese dioxide
F: semigloss
G: running
H: Alisa Clausen: two tests of this glaze both produced a fluid
to runny, light yellow to honey brown glaze. Pooled in the center
of test bowl to a glistening light yellowish glaze with a ring of
darker browns. No signs of purple or opalescence as claimed in
either test.

Everyone finds a purple based on modified cobalt to be more
reliable e.g.

A: Jeannie Purple
C: 6
E: 30 silica
E: 20 whiting
E: 18 nepheline syenite
E: 18 ball clay,OM-4
E: 14 frit,Ferro 3134
E: 3.75 tin dioxide
E: 0.60 cobalt carbonate
E: 0.20 chrome oxide
F: gloss
H: Alisa Clausen: gloss dark blue purple

So if you really are determined to use manganese, you'll have to
experiment. Start with much less than 6%, 2% seems more likely to
be successful. Let us know if you have success. And do be sure to
wear a good dust mask when handling the dry glaze.

--
Include 'Byrd' in the subject line of your reply
to get through my spam filter.

June Perry on tue 19 feb 08


In the Jeannie recipeyou posted, it shows 3.75 tin dioxide. Did you mean
Titanium dioxide, or tin oxide?



Regards,
June
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_http://shambhalapottery.blogspot.com_
(http://shambhalapottery.blogspot.com/)
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(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodasaltfiring)





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Alisa Clausen on tue 19 feb 08


On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:45:38 -0500, Nancy
wrote:

>Alisa
>
>Oh I didn't mean it in any bad way. >
>Here is the recipe
>
>Neph Sye 18
>Frit 3134 14
>Whiting 20
>Kentucky Ball Clay 18
>Silica 30
>
>
>Chrome Oxide 0.2
>Tin Oxide 3.75
>Cobalt Carbonate 0.6
>

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:45:38 -0500, Nancy
wrote:

>Alisa
>
>Oh I didn't mean it in any bad way.

Hi Nancy
My first message got lost in space.
I did not mean to imply it was bad, I was just teased because I like to
test recipes. In fact, now that you kindly posted it, it was published in
Clay Times, January-Febraury 2005, called Jeannies Purple.

More notably, it is a slightly altered oxide content of John and Ron's
Raspberry from MC6G.

I was particularly wondering if Paul was looking for purples from
Manganese or purples in general, like tin/chrome or Magnesium cobalt.
Since he is interested in Manganese Purples, and I needed something to
explore, I made some tests today.

Ruth Ballou's test tile system is in use and it is great! I look forward
to saving tons of shelf space with these flat test tiles that I can fire
standing up. Great system and easy to make. I will fire tomorrow so
maybe get the results about any purples I found, using variable fluxes, by
the weekend. All exciting. In fact, some of the earlier tests I was just
looking at again containing Manganese were purples, but opalescent and
some very fluid to running.


Best regards, Alisa in Denmark

Alisa Clausen on tue 19 feb 08


On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:22:49 EST, June Perry
wrote:

>In the Jeannie recipeyou posted, it shows 3.75 tin dioxide. Did you mean
>Titanium dioxide, or tin oxide?
>
>

Hi June
The recipe calls for 3.75 Tin Oxide

Best regards,
Alisa in Denmark

John Sankey on wed 20 feb 08


"In the Jeannie recipe you posted, it shows 3.75 tin dioxide. Did
you mean Titanium dioxide, or tin oxide?"

Tin doesn't form a monoxide. I don't know where the tradition of
calling it tin oxide arose, but it's not - it IS tin dioxide if
you use molar nomenclature. (By the way, to chemists who identify
compounds by the bond rather than by molar quantities, it's
stannic oxide. Tin monoxide would be stannous oxide.)

John Sankey

--
Include 'Byrd' in the subject line of your reply
to get through my spam filter.

Taylor Hendrix on wed 20 feb 08


But what is it in potter nomenclature? I want to be a potter.

Pretty sure the tradition is old enough to have been formed before
folks could get ahold of any and every oxide, dioxide, etc. under the
sun. Potters grabbed for a container of the oxide of tin or the oxide
of iron, who the heck cared how many oxygens there were, hence "tin
oxide" and "iron oxide". Maybe not.

:)

taylor, in rockport tx


On 2/20/08, John Sankey wrote:
...
> Tin doesn't form a monoxide. I don't know where the tradition of
> calling it tin oxide arose, but it's not - it IS tin dioxide if
> you use molar nomenclature. (By the way, to chemists who identify
> compounds by the bond rather than by molar quantities, it's
> stannic oxide. Tin monoxide would be stannous oxide.)
...

Timothy Joko-Veltman on fri 22 feb 08


On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 11:07 AM, John Sankey wrote:

> Tin doesn't form a monoxide.


Actually, it does. Cf.
http://www.webelements.com/webelements/compounds/text/Sn/O1Sn1-21651194.html

It's black/blue-black, so I suppose we could call the stuff we
normally use for pottery "White Tin Oxide", or as you do, "Tin
Dioxide". Of course, in my opinion, it's not worth the effort to be
"technically/scientifically correct" if, for all practical purposes,
there is only one that we ever encounter. Also, as potters, we have a
shared context; say "tin oxide" and I know you almost certainly mean
the "white stuff", not the "black stuff".

Cheers,

Tim