Wil Morris on fri 11 jan 08
I just noticed that Home Depot has these portable Propane shop heaters. An
upright cyclinder that sits on the floor. Looks kind of like the old
kerosene heaters.
I was wondering what others think about using one of these to convert a
small (2.8 cf) electric kiln. Removing the aluminum housing leaves you
with a convenient setup of a single burner with thermocoupler, spark
ignitor, and volume knob all on a circular stand that could sit underneath
the kiln.
There are two different BTU sizes available.. a $99 one that does 18,000(I
think) to 80,000 BTU and the other does 75,000 to 200,000 BTU for $125.00.
Each of these looks the same so I assume the orifice and regulator are the
only differences.
Assuming 10,000 BTU / Cubic foot for IFB, I thinking about getting the
smaller BTU one. If I wanted to heat faster later, I might be able to
modify it.
The price and safety setup seems right, what do you think? When Im not
firing, maybe I can also heat the shop with the lid open.
Wil Morris
Olympia, WA
Rod on sat 12 jan 08
Wil,
You are kidding about below, right? Heating the shop with the lid open?
Carbon Monoxide poisoning is a silent and deadly killer, right when you are
about to pass out you will know something is wrong, but then it will be too
late.
Not an idea that is worth considering in any way, period.
Be safe,
Rod
The price and safety setup seems right, what do you think? When Im not
firing, maybe I can also heat the shop with the lid open.
Terrance Lazaroff on sat 12 jan 08
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:31:13 -0500, Wil Morris
wrote:
Wil said;
>I was wondering what others think about using one of these to convert a
>small (2.8 cf) electric kiln. Removing the aluminum housing leaves you
>with a convenient setup of a single burner with thermocoupler, spark
>ignitor, and volume knob all on a circular stand that could sit underneath
>the kiln.
Terry said;
This sounds interesting. Inexpensive experiment. I would not try it
inside my studio. Maybe in an open field safe from any harm.
Wil said;
>The price and safety setup seems right, what do you think? When Im not
>firing, maybe I can also heat the shop with the lid open.
Terry said;
I believe these heaters are used on outside construction where one has lots
of ventilation. I would not try it inside.
>Wil Morris
>Olympia, WA
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
>subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Wil Morris on sun 13 jan 08
Rod,
Actually, no I was not kidding about heating with it. It is, afterall a
space heater. The instructions on the manual say to make sure the room is
ventillated by a cracked window or door. Someone please correct me if Im
wrong, but Carbon Monoxide is not created unless the combustion of the
burner consumes the oxygen in the area at a faster rate than it is being
replenished from outside the room thus resulting in an imperfect burn that
robs oxygen from CO2. As long as enough Oxygen is supplied to the room, CO
will not result. I do also have a CO alarm that I can install (on the
floor) in the shop in addition.
People have been using kerosene space heaters and lanterns for over a
century and they work the same way. Combustion. They are made for indoor
spaces, not outdoor.
My initial questions was what the opinions were of the BTU volumes and
whether or not this was an acceptable set-up for firing
temps.say..cone6?..even cone10? (2.8 cubic feet at max 80,000BTU)
Rod on sun 13 jan 08
Wil,
That all depends on the size of the kiln you are building. I'm not sure if
you can use multiples of these units or are just considering one.
My smaller kiln is 25 cubic foot and has 4 250 000 BTU burners on it. This
is overkill. Some of the other folks on the list will be able to quote from
memory BTUs required from memory. I myself would have to look it up. If you
don't get the information you need from someone on the list feel free to
drop me a line and I can look it up for you.
BTW as others will tell you, kilns, especially under reduction will emit a
fair amount of CO. My CO alarm would go off with my kiln outdoors without
reduction before I installed a powered vent in the roof over my kiln area.
I hope and didn't mean to insult you in any way by the way. If you search CO
poisoning on Clay Art you will see that some have had disastrous encounters
with CO poisoning. I believe Fred Paget (please correct me if I'm wrong)
ended up losing an eye from passing out from CO.
Call me an EXCEEDINGLY paranoid person but I wouldn't personally use any
product that indicated that it should be operated with a window open etc.
I'm sure they are fairly safe or they wouldn't be sold at Home Depot, but in
my mind combustion is combustion and not venting via a chimney/stack etc.
just wouldn't happen here regardless of what is considered safe.
Again I in no way meant to assume anything and was merely, perhaps
unnecessarily, warning about the potential dangers of CO intoxication.
Cheers,
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Wil Morris
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 11:44 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Home Depot heater burner for a kiln conversion
Rod,
Actually, no I was not kidding about heating with it. It is, afterall a
space heater. The instructions on the manual say to make sure the room is
ventillated by a cracked window or door. Someone please correct me if Im
wrong, but Carbon Monoxide is not created unless the combustion of the
burner consumes the oxygen in the area at a faster rate than it is being
replenished from outside the room thus resulting in an imperfect burn that
robs oxygen from CO2. As long as enough Oxygen is supplied to the room, CO
will not result. I do also have a CO alarm that I can install (on the
floor) in the shop in addition.
People have been using kerosene space heaters and lanterns for over a
century and they work the same way. Combustion. They are made for indoor
spaces, not outdoor.
My initial questions was what the opinions were of the BTU volumes and
whether or not this was an acceptable set-up for firing
temps.say..cone6?..even cone10? (2.8 cubic feet at max 80,000BTU)
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Robert Seele on sun 13 jan 08
I would think a space burner will not work.
There may be lots of BTU's.
But there is also a high volumn of air.
I don't think the exhaust tempature would be very high.
bob
Duff bogen on mon 14 jan 08
99 BUCKS! I think your money would be better spent in the plumbing department. Home depot? My local McLendon's (White Center WA) has fire brick, weed burners Ceramic fiber blanket-for $99 you could build the whole kiln.
Duff
Wil Morris wrote:
I just noticed that Home Depot has these portable Propane shop heaters. An
upright cyclinder that sits on the floor. Looks kind of like the old
kerosene heaters.
I was wondering what others think about using one of these to convert a
small (2.8 cf) electric kiln. Removing the aluminum housing leaves you
with a convenient setup of a single burner with thermocoupler, spark
ignitor, and volume knob all on a circular stand that could sit underneath
the kiln.
There are two different BTU sizes available.. a $99 one that does 18,000(I
think) to 80,000 BTU and the other does 75,000 to 200,000 BTU for $125.00.
Each of these looks the same so I assume the orifice and regulator are the
only differences.
Assuming 10,000 BTU / Cubic foot for IFB, I thinking about getting the
smaller BTU one. If I wanted to heat faster later, I might be able to
modify it.
The price and safety setup seems right, what do you think? When Im not
firing, maybe I can also heat the shop with the lid open.
Wil Morris
Olympia, WA
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Wil Morris on mon 14 jan 08
Thanks Rod,
I actually really appreciate your concern. You actually never can under-
emphasize the dangers of CO. There are far too many accadents that happen
every winter. And I do understand that an improper Kiln set-up can be
disastrous. Especially witht he kind of BTUs going on. As for propane
dangers, I suspect that I will, of course learn my new kiln outdoors
however, and always keep my tank outdoors.
Fred Olsen in the Kiln Book states that industries go witht he 'rule of
thumb' for IFB of 10,000 BTU's per cube foot max and minimum 7000 BTU. So
this would put yours about good at 25 cube - 250,000 BTU according to him.
He says too that he usually goes under that. So... I guess at 2.8 cube
feet all this kiln really needs is up to 30,000 BTU max. That would only
be less than half the burner's potential.
Wil Morris
Donna Kat on wed 16 jan 08
If you do not have a means of venting the CO, you could end up killing
yourself and family. Just a reminder since every winter we have at least
one family reported as killing themselves with this type of heater.
Donna
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:10:35 -0800, Duff bogen wrote:
>99 BUCKS! I think your money would be better spent in the plumbing
department. Home depot? My local McLendon's (White Center WA) has fire
brick, weed burners Ceramic fiber blanket-for $99 you could build the
whole kiln.
> Duff
>
>Wil Morris wrote:
> I just noticed that Home Depot has these portable Propane shop heaters.
An
>upright cyclinder that sits on the floor. Looks kind of like the old
>kerosene heaters.
>
>I was wondering what others think about using one of these to convert a
>small (2.8 cf) electric kiln. Removing the aluminum housing leaves you
>with a convenient setup of a single burner with thermocoupler, spark
>ignitor, and volume knob all on a circular stand that could sit underneath
>the kiln.
>
>There are two different BTU sizes available.. a $99 one that does 18,000(I
>think) to 80,000 BTU and the other does 75,000 to 200,000 BTU for $125.00.
>Each of these looks the same so I assume the orifice and regulator are the
>only differences.
>
>Assuming 10,000 BTU / Cubic foot for IFB, I thinking about getting the
>smaller BTU one. If I wanted to heat faster later, I might be able to
>modify it.
>
>The price and safety setup seems right, what do you think? When Im not
>firing, maybe I can also heat the shop with the lid open.
>
>Wil Morris
>Olympia, WA
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
____
>Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
>subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
____
>Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
>subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
| |
|
