Digital Studio on tue 23 oct 07
I trim heavily on all of my things. I'm not too good at throwing just
right to not have to trim, but when I do trim, I do it all. I do drop
foot inside of a foot ring. I also tend to throw really small things so
my trimming gets really tedious sometimes. I'm a perfectionist so I like
the look of a refined foot but most of the time I don't like the work
involved! :-)
sacredclay wrote:
> I hate trimming feet on pots.I hate it!I thorw somany bowls that the
> process of trimming feet slows me down too much. so I don't trim
> anymore.It's not bad. It's ok. but I'm breaking a rule that feet are
> for aesthic reasons. I've tried Wayne's suggestion of using the cap on
> the underarm deorderants to make feet. I look like a hero to my
> students because some also hate doing the same thing. I'll do it on a
> specialpot. but bowls and mugs, no dice. Buuutttttt.....I want to hear
> from the masses of what they think and do also. Thanks to all. Mwah!
> Kathryn Hughes in NC fully recovered from the moving experience and
> ready to be a new pioneer at the new studio.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
>
>
--
Kendra Bogert
www.digital-studio.biz
641-208-6253
L. P. Skeen on wed 24 oct 07
Kathryn,
My favorite bowl form has no foot ring. Foot rings serve to raise the =
bowl up off the table to make it more visually appealing, and also so =
that hot bowl does not come in direct contact w/ table. BUT - foot =
rings are the bane of existence for modern dishwasher-using folks. Even =
if you cut a divot in the foot ring for water to drain, you have to =
REMEMBER to turn the divot down. No dice.
I own three bowls that Byron Temple made about 1998 or early '99. None =
have a true foot ring. I figure if HE can do it, I can too, hehheh.
OTOH, one of my best selling items at the moment is the Berry Bowl, =
which does require a footring to allow the water drainage. Go fig.
L
----- Original Message -----=20
From: sacredclay=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:28 PM
Subject: I hat trimming feet on pots
I hate trimming feet on pots.I hate it!I thorw somany bowls that the
process of trimming feet slows me down too much. so I don't trim
anymore.It's not bad. It's ok. but I'm breaking a rule that feet are
for aesthic reasons. I've tried Wayne's suggestion of using the cap on
the underarm deorderants to make feet. I look like a hero to my
students because some also hate doing the same thing. I'll do it on a
specialpot. but bowls and mugs, no dice. Buuutttttt.....I want to hear
from the masses of what they think and do also. Thanks to all. Mwah!
Kathryn Hughes in NC fully recovered from the moving experience and
ready to be a new pioneer at the new studio.
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change =
your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots2@visi.com
David Hendley on wed 24 oct 07
This message bothers me for two reasons:
#1 - with the endless variety of things that can be done
clay there is no good reason to spend your time doing
things you hate.
#2 - the world is already overrun with poorly designed
and/or made things. Why make more things that are "not
bad" or "ok" when you could be making great things?
And, of course, there is no rule that "feet are for
aesthetic reasons".
If you want to make bowls and mugs but not trim the
bottoms, the solution is to design forms that do not need
trimming. This is pretty simple for a mug shape, not so
easy for a bowl unless it is a flat-bottomed bowl.
Avoiding the conventional way of doing things affords
an excellent opportunity to be creative and develop your
own approach.
My teacher in college also did not like to trim pots. His
solution was to carve them by hand. Most often this
resulted in a piece with somewhere between 8 and 20
"feet" on the bottom of a piece.
There are many interesting ways to finish the bottoms
of pots such as interesting wire cuts, sprigged or press
molded feet, or extruded feet.
Twenty years ago I used to have a goal of not "wasting
time" trimming pottery. Today, many of the pieces I made
in that time period look pretty bad to me because of it.
Today, I enjoy trimming pots as much as throwing them,
decorating them, or glazing them, because it makes them
better pots.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david(at)farmpots(dot)com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
I hate trimming feet on pots.I hate it!I thorw somany bowls that the
process of trimming feet slows me down too much. so I don't trim
anymore.It's not bad. It's ok. but I'm breaking a rule that feet are
for aesthic reasons. I've tried Wayne's suggestion of using the cap on
the underarm deorderants to make feet. I look like a hero to my
students because some also hate doing the same thing. I'll do it on a
specialpot. but bowls and mugs, no dice. Buuutttttt.....I want to hear
from the masses of what they think and do also. Thanks to all. Mwah!
Kathryn Hughes in NC fully recovered from the moving experience and
Paul Haigh on wed 24 oct 07
This is a subject near to my heart. In fly fishing they say that a fly is made with care 10% to catch the fish, and 90% to catch the fisherman. In this case- you have to consider the audience. After the first woodfiring that I attended, I realized that some pots will appeal to potters and some will appeal to the general public.
Aesthetics are in the eye of the beer holder. Some pots, cups, bowls (IMO) look better with trimmed feet, but then you could pick designs that look good without a trimmed foot. An untrimmed foot can have great flow from the pot right into the table uninterrupted.
I'm not a super experienced potter, but I know what I like. When I turn over a pot that has a neat but not trimmed foot, with wire marks showing from being cut off the wheel- it gives me the same feeling that an exceptional jazz solo gives me. "Uhh- that's the stuff" Serious- personality, soul, mark of the maker. The same raw love that I feel for woodfired pottery. When I see really old pots that were made this way- it speaks to me. That's something that survived many years and still speaks of the process.
However- we've all seen spongeware that had poor care of the foot with wire marks. The bottom must be THROWN right, then cut and cared for right. This takes some care and learning (which I'm still going through), but a thumb wipe, or correct use of a roller to smooth can look excellent.
Well, this may not help much, but I try for designs that don't need trimming. I hope that I do this well, in my limited experience.
David McBeth on wed 24 oct 07
Trimming is thinking time. A couple years ago I made 500 bowls for a =
local Empty Bowls project, had made 500 the year before and trimmed =
every one. The second year, no way was I going to trim that many again. =
In the end they looked like crap, every one of them. Subsequently i =
have changed my attitude about trimming. Trimming is the slow time, the =
thnking time. Trimming is the time to think critcally about the form of =
the bowl, how can the next bowl better, how can the next foot be better? =
What does this bowl say about you, the potter? =20
I am looking ahead to a bit of surgery in two weeks that will keep me =
out of the studio for about a month, right before Christmas. I have to =
make 300 bowls for our Empty Bowls project, 10 amazing pots for a the =
annual faculty exhibit that opens the day of my surgery, another dozen =
pots for a couple of shows I'll be in next month, another 100 bowls for =
a visiting artist fundbuilding event, 50 fantastic and compelling =
teabowls, oh ya and teach six courses a week. All of the bowls will be =
trimmed, they will better for it and I will have time to think.
Happy Trimming
Dave
ps=20
Mel, from the subject line of your post i thought I was going to get to =
move to Minnetonka and be your trimming machine, rats.
Dave
David McBeth
330 B Gooch Hall
Department of Visual and Theatre Arts
University of Tennessee at Martin
Martin, Tennessee 38238
731-881-7416
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart on behalf of sacredclay
Sent: Tue 10/23/2007 8:28 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: I hat trimming feet on pots
=20
I hate trimming feet on pots.I hate it!I thorw somany bowls that the
process of trimming feet slows me down too much. so I don't trim
anymore.It's not bad. It's ok. but I'm breaking a rule that feet are
for aesthic reasons. I've tried Wayne's suggestion of using the cap on
the underarm deorderants to make feet. I look like a hero to my
students because some also hate doing the same thing. I'll do it on a
specialpot. but bowls and mugs, no dice. Buuutttttt.....I want to hear
from the masses of what they think and do also. Thanks to all. Mwah!
Kathryn Hughes in NC fully recovered from the moving experience and
ready to be a new pioneer at the new studio.
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots2@visi.com
James and Sherron Bowen on wed 24 oct 07
You know you don't have to trim the inside of the foot of a bowl. I have
some tea bowls made by Howard Axner and some by Japanese potters that were
never trimmed inside the foot. You can't tell that the foot is not a ring
when they are sitting on the table.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "sacredclay"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:28 PM
Subject: I hat trimming feet on pots
I hate trimming feet on pots.I hate it!I thorw somany bowls that the
Elizabeth Priddy on wed 24 oct 07
just because the potter was japanese doesn't make it a teabowl.
By the standard, it is not correct if the foot is not trimmed.
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
Natural Instincts Conference Information:
http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
__________________________________________________
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Donna Kat on wed 24 oct 07
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:27:26 -0700, Elizabeth Priddy
wrote:
>just because the potter was japanese doesn't make it a teabowl.
>
> By the standard, it is not correct if the foot is not trimmed.
>
>
>
>
>Elizabeth Priddy
>Beaufort, NC - USA
>
Could you elaborate a bit please. By what standard what is not correct if
the foot is not trimmed (Japanese, bowl)?
sacredclay on wed 24 oct 07
I hate trimming feet on pots.I hate it!I thorw somany bowls that the
process of trimming feet slows me down too much. so I don't trim
anymore.It's not bad. It's ok. but I'm breaking a rule that feet are
for aesthic reasons. I've tried Wayne's suggestion of using the cap on
the underarm deorderants to make feet. I look like a hero to my
students because some also hate doing the same thing. I'll do it on a
specialpot. but bowls and mugs, no dice. Buuutttttt.....I want to hear
from the masses of what they think and do also. Thanks to all. Mwah!
Kathryn Hughes in NC fully recovered from the moving experience and
ready to be a new pioneer at the new studio.
Lee Love on wed 24 oct 07
On 10/24/07, Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
> just because the potter was japanese doesn't make it a teabowl.
"Weedhoppa, what make good tea bowl is, if good tea can be made in it."
Because of the health benefits of powdered matcha tea, I have
been making it for people and giving tea and utensils away. I made
tea in a tea bowl my housemate Steve brought home from NCC. I could
tell, by tooking at it, a porcelain white with a nice celadon, that
the form would work and the color would show off the color of the
frothed tea. It was the first time he has ever drank any kind of
tea. I served sweet yokan (a sweet made from Azuki bean.) I
explained it was something like cranberry jelly, only sweeter and
harder. You eat something sweet before drinking matcha.
Expressively, here in Minnesota, I generally feel that the
expressive nature of the pots are better than in Mashiko. But one
area we are weak in here is the foot.
> By the standard, it is not correct if the foot is not trimmed.
Sometimes Japanese tea bowls are craved, rather than trimmed.
If you can make whisked tea in it without damaging the utensils or
distracting the tea drinker, it is a good tea bowl.
--
Lee in Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
"We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant
facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For
a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and
falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people."
--JFK
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"For a democracy of excellence, the goal is not to reduce things to a
common denominator but to raise things to a shared worth."
--Paolo Soleri
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 24 oct 07
Hi Donna,
A Foot on a Bowl is to be like a 'Ring' which one imagines being added to an
otherwise complete and continuous form, and not like a Hockey Puck stuck on
the bottom.
A bad Foot or an indifferent one, or one they forgot to finish maybe, when
by a famous-potter-person or anyone else, is a bad or indifferent or
incomplete Foot, no matter.
Phil
l v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna Kat"
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:27:26 -0700, Elizabeth Priddy
> wrote:
>
>>just because the potter was japanese doesn't make it a teabowl.
>>
>> By the standard, it is not correct if the foot is not trimmed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Elizabeth Priddy
>>Beaufort, NC - USA
>>
>
> Could you elaborate a bit please. By what standard what is not correct if
> the foot is not trimmed (Japanese, bowl)?
William & Susan Schran User on thu 25 oct 07
On 10/23/07 9:28 PM, "sacredclay" wrote:
> I hate trimming feet on pots.I hate it!I thorw somany bowls that the
> process of trimming feet slows me down too much...
> Buuutttttt.....I want to hear
> from the masses of what they think and do also.
I rarely trim a foot ring on my cups/mugs, but I intentionally leave excess
clay/thickness when I throw bowls to trim a fairly deep foot. A prominent
foot on a bowl form just works for me and I actually enjoy the trimming
process - I use Bison tools!
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Anne Doyle on thu 25 oct 07
i don't mind trimming at all now, did dread it in the beginning cause i
lost so many pots as they flew off the wheelhead!! Now i go slower, use a
GG mostly but not always, and i quite enjoy the trimming,
I find sometimes trimming a piece takes what was commonplace and peels
away layers to reveal its hidden beauty...
Plus, its the one way i can get a series of bowls or mugs to look like
they're even remotely related, or at least the same species if not
cousins...
Its a pretty zen activity for me so i get into it and its good...
its part of the cycle of the creation of the pot... every part is just as
important... My 2cents...
Anne,
in Saint-Sauveur relieved that friends in California are safe and i might
be going to NCECA in March, Woohoo!!
Ilene Mahler on thu 25 oct 07
be well good luck...Ilene in Conn
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McBeth"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: I hat trimming feet on pots
> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender: Clayart
> Poster: David McBeth
> Subject: Re: I hat trimming feet on pots
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Trimming is thinking time. A couple years ago I made 500 bowls for a =
> local Empty Bowls project, had made 500 the year before and trimmed =
> every one. The second year, no way was I going to trim that many again. =
> In the end they looked like crap, every one of them. Subsequently i =
> have changed my attitude about trimming. Trimming is the slow time, the =
> thnking time. Trimming is the time to think critcally about the form of =
> the bowl, how can the next bowl better, how can the next foot be better? =
> What does this bowl say about you, the potter? =20
>
> I am looking ahead to a bit of surgery in two weeks that will keep me =
> out of the studio for about a month, right before Christmas. I have to =
> make 300 bowls for our Empty Bowls project, 10 amazing pots for a the =
> annual faculty exhibit that opens the day of my surgery, another dozen =
> pots for a couple of shows I'll be in next month, another 100 bowls for =
> a visiting artist fundbuilding event, 50 fantastic and compelling =
> teabowls, oh ya and teach six courses a week. All of the bowls will be =
> trimmed, they will better for it and I will have time to think.
>
> Happy Trimming
> Dave
>
>
> ps=20
> Mel, from the subject line of your post i thought I was going to get to =
> move to Minnetonka and be your trimming machine, rats.
>
> Dave
>
> David McBeth
> 330 B Gooch Hall
> Department of Visual and Theatre Arts
> University of Tennessee at Martin
> Martin, Tennessee 38238
>
> 731-881-7416
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart on behalf of sacredclay
> Sent: Tue 10/23/2007 8:28 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: I hat trimming feet on pots
> =20
> I hate trimming feet on pots.I hate it!I thorw somany bowls that the
> process of trimming feet slows me down too much. so I don't trim
> anymore.It's not bad. It's ok. but I'm breaking a rule that feet are
> for aesthic reasons. I've tried Wayne's suggestion of using the cap on
> the underarm deorderants to make feet. I look like a hero to my
> students because some also hate doing the same thing. I'll do it on a
> specialpot. but bowls and mugs, no dice. Buuutttttt.....I want to hear
> from the masses of what they think and do also. Thanks to all. Mwah!
> Kathryn Hughes in NC fully recovered from the moving experience and
> ready to be a new pioneer at the new studio.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
> _____
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
> melpots2@visi.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Lee Love on fri 26 oct 07
> From: "David McBeth"
> > have changed my attitude about trimming. Trimming is the slow time, the =
> > thnking time. Trimming is the time to think critcally about the form of =
> > the bowl, how can the next bowl better, how can the next foot be better? =
> > What does this bowl say about you, the potter? =20
I think the central problem newbies have, is that they turn too
fast, trim when the clay is too hard (difficult to judge drying when
you don't "live" with the pots) and that requires sharp tools. When
you work this way, not only is the process stiff, but the outcome is
too.
If you trim slower, softer, your feet won't look
machined. To trim soft, you should not use tools that are very
sharp. These are better for lathe work. Matcha chawan are often
trimmed or carved very soft, with a bamboo knife. I sometimes torch
the lip of a chawan right after throwing. (had to torch the inside
bottom just a tad too.) This way, you trim really soft and the bowl
looks more like the softness of the foot found on the original.
If you trim soft, you get more of a feeling like throwing.
You can actually move the foot by "throwing." Try it!
--
Lee in Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"For a democracy of excellence, the goal is not to reduce things to a
common denominator but to raise things to a shared worth."
--Paolo Soleri
James and Sherron Bowen on fri 26 oct 07
You will find that trimming with a wire loop tool (scraffito tool) works
well on very soft clay that tends to stick to cutting type trimming tools.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To:
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: I hat trimming feet on pots
Lee Love on fri 26 oct 07
On 10/26/07, James and Sherron Bowen wrote:
> You will find that trimming with a wire loop tool (scraffito tool) works
> well on very soft clay that tends to stick to cutting type trimming tools.
I use a self sharpening Jerry Horning tool that is made out of
thick piano wire. I also use a Japanese loop tool that is pretty
dull and shelf sharpening, as well as the standard pear shaped Kemper.
Along with the bamboo knife.
I just use the Japanese kana for scraping. You can
shave with them.
Soft clay, dull tools and a slow wheel is the way to
make feet that don't look machined, but rather, match the feeling of
the throwing.
--
Lee in Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
"Let them have no reason to complain of our copying the brutal example
of the British army." --George Washington
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"For a democracy of excellence, the goal is not to reduce things to a
common denominator but to raise things to a shared worth."
--Paolo Soleri
Tom at Hutchtel.net on sat 27 oct 07
The thought just hit me regarding trimming, (thoughts take time when you're
as old as Mel like I am), the quality and ease of trimming depends somewhat
on the quality of throwing.
Recently I've been teaching one of the women who works for us how to throw.
She reached the stage where it was time to learn how to shape the foot
during throwing to more closely look like the final foot. Less trimming,
but it also affects the shape of the interior. She made the comment on how
much easier it made trimming.
Specifically the move I'm referring to is where you press inward along the
wheelhead where the foot will be. The pot will seem to leap off the wheel
and you have to be ready to follow it immediately. The pressure is with the
outside finger (I use middle) and as soon as the pot starts to move upward,
the inside finger meets it and pulls the wall. It's how good throwers pull
the wall of a 8 lb pot in 2 or 3 pulls.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
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