nsmheralds@netzero.net on sat 29 sep 07
We're thinking about acquiring a pug mill. Most of the recommendations =
I've read on this list this year are in favor of Peter Pugger. I think =
that's what they have over at the local university and it certainly take=
s a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. The only immutable requirement we hav=
e is that it MUST be able to be plugged into a standard 110V wall outlet=
. Although I don't know for sure, I suspect that the entire room--which=
isn't all that big--is on the same circuit, hopefully 20A, but possibly=
15A. I'm sure this will eliminate at least half the units on the marke=
t, but since our studio is at the local park and rec, we have to make do=
with what our space provides. I'd originally been looking at just a st=
raight pugger-only, partly because they seem to take up less space and p=
artly because of cost (although the more I think about it, the more I'm =
wondering if we should just go for broke, since we'll be biting the bull=
et already anyway). On the other hand, having a pugger/mixer at the U s=
ort of spoiled us, although any sort of pugger after 2 years of the buck=
et-and-plasterbat method would be nice.
I'd be interested in feedback from those of you who have used both types=
of machines.
I also need recommendations for models that are compatible with our elec=
trical situation.
-Nathan and Sarah Miller
Thistillium Pottery
Newberg, OR
=
William & Susan Schran User on sat 29 sep 07
On 9/29/07 12:08 PM, "nsmheralds@netzero.net"
wrote:
> Most of the recommendations I've read on this list this year are in favor of
> Peter Pugger. I think that's what they have over at the local university and
> it certainly takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. The only immutable
> requirement we have is that it MUST be able to be plugged into a standard 110V
> wall outlet. Although I don't know for sure, I suspect that the entire
> room--which isn't all that big--is on the same circuit, hopefully 20A, but
> possibly 15A.
We have the VPM20 at school, works great and operates on household current.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
WJ Seidl on sat 29 sep 07
Nathan and or Sarah:
Peter Pugger can build you one that runs straight 120 (hasn't been 110=20
for years ).
More importantly though--
how much clay are you going to be processing at once?=20
Model is determined by output with most manufacturers.
In the situation you describe, it might be to everyone's advantage for=20
the pugger to be run
either before the room goes into regular use in the morning, or after=20
hours at night.
That way, allocation of power is not an issue (popping the breaker).
Best,
Wayne Seidl
nsmheralds@netzero.net wrote:
> We're thinking about acquiring a pug mill. Most of the recommendations=
I've read on this list this year are in favor of Peter Pugger. I think =
that's what they have over at the local university and it certainly takes=
a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. The only immutable requirement we have =
is that it MUST be able to be plugged into a standard 110V wall outlet. =
Although I don't know for sure, I suspect that the entire room--which isn=
't all that big--is on the same circuit, hopefully 20A, but possibly 15A.=
I'm sure this will eliminate at least half the units on the market, but=
since our studio is at the local park and rec, we have to make do with w=
hat our space provides. I'd originally been looking at just a straight p=
ugger-only, partly because they seem to take up less space and partly bec=
ause of cost (although the more I think about it, the more I'm wondering =
if we should just go for broke, since we'll be biting the bullet already =
anyway). On the other hand, having a pugger/mixer at the U sort of spoil=
ed us, although any sort of pugger after 2 years of the bucket-and-plaste=
rbat method would be nice.
> I'd be interested in feedback from those of you who have used both type=
s of machines.
> I also need recommendations for models that are compatible with our ele=
ctrical situation.
> -Nathan and Sarah Miller
> Thistillium Pottery
> Newberg, OR
> =20
> _______________________________________________________________________=
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> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@vi=
si.com
>
> =20
Mark Issenberg on sat 29 sep 07
I have a Peter Pugger 30 and it runs on 220
Mark
PS,, I love my Peter Pugger
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Michael Wendt on sat 29 sep 07
I do not own nor represent Peter Pugger.
In my opinion, it makes more sense to get
one of their machines because you can
reclaim scraps as a batch and add dry
material to adjust the degree of stiffness.
A pug mill requires "looping" material back
through several times to get the just right
level of moisture.
I also like that the mixture is all subject
to continuous vacuum rather than one
very brief stint in a vacuum chamber
the way the tiny pug mills work.
The second generation pug mill I built
pugs the charge extensively under a high
vacuum to overcome this limitation.
Why is a deairing pug mill so important?
I believe air bubbles are at the root of many
flaws we see in hand made pottery.
The bubbles are discontinuities that lead
to unexplained cracking for example. They
may even play a role in warping, I am not
sure as yet.
So... consider the VPM20 at the very least,
well worth the money and I doubt you will
ever regret the decision.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave.
Lewiston, Id 83501
U.S.A.
208-746-3724
wendtpot@lewiston.com
http://www.wendtpottery.com
http://UniquePorcelainDesigns.com
Doric T. Jemison-Ball ll on sat 29 sep 07
-Nathan and Sarah Miller WROTE: We're thinking about acquiring a pug mill.
I purchased a Peter Pugger pugger/mixeer about a year ago. I got a deal
because I bought a "used" model [minor blemish on finishing on the case] and
paid cash.
Previously, [many years ago] I'd been a user of one of the primative,
unsafe, but highly effective Walker pug mills.
I'd say, go for it. You're only going to buy this once. The mix then PUG
ability is invaluable. The model have has a 1 horse power electric motor and
a small stand alone de-airing pump. Neither should put an undue burden on a
15-20AMP household circuit. [Best info I can find is that it draws 2-3 AMPS
in operation but the folks at PETERV PUGGER can clarify that for you] I run
mine in a garage in a rental house with what can only be considered
primitive wiring and have had no problem. But the key to your "electrical
requirements" is to determine what circuits you have available and what you
have plugged in and see if you really have a problem. Typically it is
heating elements [space heaters, hot plates,coffee makers] that put the
larger demands on circuits. [I also have the variable speed option, which
would reduce the load if I didn't run it at full speed most of the time. ]
My only reservation is that you need to control the moisture to avoid the
spinnies, but you're probably familiar with that if you've been using a
Peter Pugger.
Note: My all time favorite was the huge Walker I used in school, unsafe at
any speed by today's standards, but a real production machine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "nsmheralds@netzero.net"
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:08 AM
Subject: More pug mill recommendations?
We're thinking about acquiring a pug mill. Most of the recommendations I've
read on this list this year are in favor of Peter Pugger. I think that's
what they have over at the local university and it certainly takes a lickin'
and keeps on tickin'. The only immutable requirement we have is that it
MUST be able to be plugged into a standard 110V wall outlet. Although I
don't know for sure, I suspect that the entire room--which isn't all that
big--is on the same circuit, hopefully 20A, but possibly 15A. I'm sure this
will eliminate at least half the units on the market, but since our studio
is at the local park and rec, we have to make do with what our space
provides. I'd originally been looking at just a straight pugger-only,
partly because they seem to take up less space and partly because of cost
(although the more I think about it, the more I'm wondering if we should
just go for broke, since we'll be biting the bullet already anyway). On the
other hand, having a pugger/mixer at the U sort of spoiled us, although any
sort of pugger after 2 years of the bucket-and-plasterbat method would be
nice.
I'd be interested in feedback from those of you who have used both types of
machines.
I also need recommendations for models that are compatible with our
electrical situation.
-Nathan and Sarah Miller
Thistillium Pottery
Newberg, OR
Doric T.Jemison-Ball II
707-884-5067 Voice
buffalo@bbs-la.com
http://www.bbs-la.com
"You can always cure the sausage that's too long"
Susan Gatherers
Robert Klander on sat 29 sep 07
I have a Bailey A-400
It runs on 110, and does a fine job. It is Not a mixer/pugger like
the PeterPugger.
It's their smallest pugger, but if you give Neil a call at Bailey, he
can recommend if this machine would be large enough for your needs.
The quality of the machine is excellent, and it serves me quite well.
Good luck finding the right machine for your needs...
Robert
At 11:08 AM 9/29/2007, you wrote:
>We're thinking about acquiring a pug mill. Most of the
>recommendations I've read on this list this year are in favor of
>Peter Pugger. I think that's what they have over at the local
>university and it certainly takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.
Lynne and Bruce Girrell on sun 30 sep 07
Like many of the others responding to this thread, we too, have a Peter
Pugger. The machine has performed well and I can't say enough good things
about the people at PP who have helped me out in every way possible when I
asked.
But...
If I had to do it all over again, I would certainly consider the Bailey
double auger mixer/deairing pugger. There is no question in my mind that the
double auger system is better for mixing. For pugging, it may or may not
make a difference. And as for deairing, I really can't say, as I have no
exerience with the machine. The vacuum port seems as though it could easily
get plugged, so PP may be better there. In the PP, the clay is deaired as it
is being mixed, not afterward.
So I don't know which machine would be better, I just know that I would
definitely look at the Bailey.
Bruce Girrell
Marcia Selsor on sun 30 sep 07
I have a little Bailey pug mill. I owned an old Peter Pugger about 20
years ago and it was rusted (used) when I bought it.
The thing I like about the Bailey is it is easy to clean. I use
different types of clays. The tank is cast aluminum.
I also liked the Bailey demo at NCECA where slabs were extruded out
of the pugmill. The slabs were a perfect size for some of my large
molds.
The PP is a good machine too. I used a Venco in Hawaii. That too is a
good machine. You have to pick a machine for what you will be using
it for.
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
WJ Seidl on sun 30 sep 07
Bruce:
What year is your PP? Mine (2003) has a switch on the control box
that allows me to turn the vacuum on or off at will.
I usually don't start the vac pump up until the clay is done mixing, and
it's time to
reverse to pug it. The nice thing about that is that you can vacuum de-air
an entire batch without the auger moving at all. This has also helped with
curing the "spinnies" on occasion.
I do wish PP had a better seal on the mixing-to-vacuum chamber though.
I've noted more than once clay oozing through, and it is mentioned in
the manual
to keep an eye on the vac chamber, and keep it clean.
Seems they could seal that tighter. Maybe not, since the vac draws
through there.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Lynne and Bruce Girrell wrote:
> Like many of the others responding to this thread, we too, have a Peter
> Pugger. The machine has performed well and I can't say enough good things
> about the people at PP who have helped me out in every way possible
> when I
> asked.
>
> But...
>
> If I had to do it all over again, I would certainly consider the Bailey
> double auger mixer/deairing pugger. There is no question in my mind
> that the
> double auger system is better for mixing. For pugging, it may or may not
> make a difference. And as for deairing, I really can't say, as I have no
> exerience with the machine. The vacuum port seems as though it could
> easily
> get plugged, so PP may be better there. In the PP, the clay is deaired
> as it
> is being mixed, not afterward.
>
> So I don't know which machine would be better, I just know that I would
> definitely look at the Bailey.
>
> Bruce Girrell
>
Bruce Girrell on mon 1 oct 07
WJ Seidl wrote: Subject: Re: More pug mill recommendations?
> The nice thing about that is that you can vacuum de-air
> an entire batch without the auger moving at all.
My PP is like yours and I do not de-air most of the time while mixing, only
about the last 5-10 minutes. I keep the vacuum on the whole time during
pugging.
But what you say above is not true at all. While you can de-air the whole
_chamber_ without the auger moving, it will not be effective at de-airing
the _clay_ unless you run the auger. The reason is that many little pockets
of air can be trapped in the clay and do not have a chance to escape until
the clay gets moved around.
Regarding the shaft seal between the mix chamber and the vacuum chamber - It
is essential for the fit to be loose so that the air in the mix chamber can
move to the vacuum chamber. A tighter fit would get clogged with clay
easier. As it is, I'm still surprised that it doesn't get clogged any more
than it does.
BTW, to all the PP owners out there. Here's how you can tell if the
connection between the mix chamber and the vacuum chamber has become
clogged. Be aware of how long it takes to draw down the vacuum. It should
take about half a minute, maybe more. If you hit 25 inches in ten seconds or
less, it is clogged and all you're doing is drawing down the vacuum chamber.
You can verify whether or not the mix chamber has been evacuated by
releasing the lock on the handle and attempting to open the hatch. If you
can open the hatch at all - if a Sasquatch/Skunk Ape pulling as hard as
possible could open the hatch - then the mix chamber has not been evacuated.
What to do? Close the hatch and, with the vacuum on and pumped down to 25
inches or so, turn the machine back on in the Pug direction. I keep my left
hand over the rubber plug at the end to feel for clay movement. In almost
all cases, after just a few seconds of running the machine, you will see a
sudden decrease in the vacuum on the gauge and you will hear the pump make a
different sound. Stop the machine immediately so that you don't actually
start pugging clay. Let the vacuum draw down completely and then restart in
mix mode to de-air the clay. After a while you may want to reverse the
machine momentarily again while watching the gauge and listening to the
pump.
Listen to your machine. You can tell a lot from the sounds that it makes.
You can tell how stiff the clay is by the amount of time it takes to stop.
You can tell if the clay starts spinning without mixing by the sound.
Bruce Girrell
Rebecca Holden on thu 4 oct 07
I have a rebuilt Walker that runs on 110. I don't use it anymore so
if anyone is interested I am sure we could figure out something. (It
is in Jasper, Arkansas)
Rebecca Holden-Buchanan
carriage@ritternet.com
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