Dan Wilson on fri 31 may 96
Restrict your recycling to two barrels; one for dry/drying clay and one
for slaking. This will force you to include recycling in your shop
routine. Build a drying rack.Buy a bunch of terrycloth bath towels.The
large ones work best. Roll your slurry "burrito" fashion into the towels
and set them on the rack to dry.Check and turn them every day until they
feel very stiff. At this point its a simple matter to unroll the towels and
wedge the clay. Works great for me.
Jenna Logan on wed 24 jun 98
Does anyone have an idea on how students can recycle their own clay (scraps &
slip from throwing) in a class room situation. Slip buckets with the huge
collective mound of clay in various stages of drying is not working , taking
up too much space, not to mention the smell. Any creative suggestions ?
centa uhalde on wed 24 jun 98
Hi,
Is there anybody in the North Bay area, California, US (duh) who would like
me to save them clay scraps? I do not have the means to recycle, I have a
hard enough time just wedging prepared clay. So if anyone wants it, let me
know.
Centa
Hank Ray on thu 25 jun 98
take scraps and wedge a little hawthornbond or some dry mix in to them....
or sometimes i'd mash the mess out on a table and let it sit there for awhile
to help dry it out......
if you have scraps that are to dry..... put in bag with a little water....
it worked for me... when i got tired of donating my clay to the recycle
barrel....
hank
Des Howard on thu 25 jun 98
At 16:03 24/06/98 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Does anyone have an idea on how students can recycle their own clay (scraps &
>slip from throwing) in a class room situation. Slip buckets with the huge
>collective mound of clay in various stages of drying is not working , taking
>up too much space, not to mention the smell. Any creative suggestions ?
>
Jenna
Try these ideas out:
- if the wheels have drain tubes to waste buckets, plug the tubes.
- oblige the students to reuse the slip buildup instead of fresh water for
throwing.
- avoid, if possible, allowing scrap to become blackhard or dry before
recycling.
- make plaster batts by casting 50mm layer in plastic wash bowls.
- spread 50mm layer of soft/slop clay on dry plaster batt.
- as soon as skin forms on slop layer turn over & do other side, only leave
on batts until skin develops.
- stand these on end like dominoes, leave to air stiffen.
- wedge & store when at preferred stage of dryness.
- treasure smelly clay, it is ideal for pulled or extruded handles & thrown
items requiring that extra bit of plasticity.
Des
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW 2850
Australia
61 02 6373 6419
djhoward@lisp.com.au
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW 2850
Australia
61 02 6373 6419
djhoward@lisp.com.au
Philip Davenport on thu 25 jun 98
Concerning recycling clay-
You must put the clay on some type of material that will absorb the
water out of the clay. I have made several hump molds, out of plaster
of paris, and place the super wet clay (right out of the slip bucket)
into the mold and in about two or three days the clay is dry enough to
wedge.
To make the mold- use some recycled clay to make the form. Place it
inside a cardboard box that is several inches longer and wider than the
caly form. It should also be 4-6 inches taller than the form. Mix the
plaster and pour it into the box. Allow one day for the plaster to set
and begin to dry and tear away the box. Clean out the clay (I throw
away the clay as I do not like to use clay that could have bits of
plaster in it.), scrape the sharp edges, if there are any, and let the
mold dry for several weeks. After the mold has had time to dry you can
begin to use it.
I teach in a high school situation and this has worked quite well for
me.
Good Luck
Phil Davenport
Texas
Jenna Logan on fri 26 jun 98
Thanks for replying. The problem still seems to be where to let the slip dry.
They can each carry their own slip bucket but I need to solve the problem of
not dumping all the slip out onto plaster slabs in the class room & not
wanting to tell them to take the clay home to process. I heard about using
bisque flowerpots with saucers on top to dry clay & we tried it but by the
following week ( when the next class met ) the clay was too dry ( like a rock
) . Jenna
John H. Rodgers on fri 26 jun 98
-- [ From: John H. Rodgers * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Jenna, I recycle my clay scrapsby hand in my very small studio. I did have
to make a plaster table to do it. It works like this.
1) Build a table of 2X4's that measures about 24 X 36 inches. Put a plywood
top on it. Then build a frame of 2 X 4's arount the top, mix plaster and
pour the plaster onto the table top, inside the frame. Level and smooth the
plaster . When the plaster eventually dries out, it can be used to aid in
reclaiming the clay.
2) In your clay bucket ad water to cover the clay by several inches. Allow
to sit for two or three days. Then drain off all but about an inch of the
water. Take an electric drill and a jiffy mixer made for a 5 gallon bucket,
and at the top of the clay, begin mixing. Slowly work your way down to the
bottom. Continue beating the clay into a slurry. If necessary, add more
water. Don't make a slip. Thats to wet, but a slurry is OK. After it is in
the slurry stage, well beaten, dump it out on the plaster table.....about
1/2 a bucket full. Keep the rest for the next day. Spread the clay slurry
out about 3/4 inch thick. Leave to dry. If you beat it up one day and pour
it out the next morning, you can watch it dry all day and check the moisture
content. When sufficiently dry you should be able to lift a slab of
reconstituted clay and turn it over, pressing it down to speed drying. If
night catrches you and it's not dry enough to take up and put away, any you
want to slow drying, cover with plastic bags or sheet and that will slow it
down. Next morning, remove the clay from the table by simply rolling up in a
roll, then wedge it on the same table to consolidate it and remove air
bubbles. Now it is ready to through.
Once I have a bucket full of clay, I don't wait around for more to
accumulate. I get on it. More cost effective.
Good luck.
John Rodgers
-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Date: Wednesday, 24-Jun-98 04:03 PM
From: Jenna Logan \ America On-Line: (Logan437)
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART \ Internet: (clayart@lsv.uky.
edu)
Subject: RECYCLING CLAY
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Does anyone have an idea on how students can recycle their own clay (scraps
& slip from throwing) in a class room situation. Slip buckets with the huge
collective mound of clay in various stages of drying is not working , taking
up too much space, not to mention the smell. Any creative suggestions ?
-------- REPLY, End of original message --------
Joy Holdread on sat 27 jun 98
In a message dated 98-06-25 12:21:59 EDT, you write:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >Does anyone have an idea on how students can recycle their own clay
(scraps
> &
> >slip from throwing) in a class room situation. Slip buckets with the huge
> >collective mound of clay in various stages of drying is not working ,
> taking
> >up too much space, not to mention the smell. Any creative suggestions ?
>
Let the throwing water settle, pour water off from the top & re use to throw.
For that sloppy slip: You can build a shallow box with plywood & 2x4's line
with canvas & pour in the slip 2-4"deep. Prop up on more 2 x 4. In the hot
summer you can blow a fan across it, it'll cool a room in dry climates. With
help you can move the canvas around a cement floor or a bricked patio, both
surfaces absorb moisture. I cover the frames with old screen when it's
outside to keep leaves out. Let it dry cut off the edges & wedge as it drys.
The throwing slip may be short of grog. Add some if necessary. All the
plaster bat solutions take up too much space for my studio & take too much
time to dry between use.
JOY
judy motzkin on sat 27 jun 98
I just remembered this. A woman who used to work with me at Clay
Dragon Studios moved to Puerto Rico. A suggestion of hers was later
printed in CM. She would take an old pair of jeans, tie off the legs
at the ankles, fill the legs with recycle slurry, and hang the pants
by the crotch over a tree branch to dry.
I never tried this, but I love the image. Maybe it's an answer for a
student situation. It won't take up and table space.
Judy
jmotzkin@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
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Don Goodrich on sat 27 jun 98
Hi Jenna,
Assuming you can get the scrap clay/slip mixed into a pourable uniform
consistency, try bagging it in an old pair of jeans. Fold the bottoms of the
legs over a couple of times to prevent leaks, and safety-pin 'em that way,
then pour the slip or slurry in at the top and let the pants hang around until
the clay is of workable consistency. They're rather heavy so you'll need
something strong to hang 'em from ( and they look really wierd in the closet)
but it takes up less room than a plaster slab. Depending on your atmospheric
conditions, it may take weeks to evaporate & drip enough water this way, so
you're not in danger of the clay getting too hard too soon.
Don Goodrich enjoying the shade in Zion, Illinois
goodrichdn@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/goodrichdn/
Malone & Dean McRaine on sun 28 jun 98
I dry scraps in one bucket, pour slip in another, water down the dry scraps
then mix 'em together with a paint mixer to get a pretty smooth slip. pour
the slip into a pillowcase and hang it in a breezy/hot place and the clay
will be wedgable in 1-2 weeks. Primitive but effective.
Dean
Jo Gilder on sun 28 jun 98
judy motzkin wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
She would take an old pair of jeans, tie off the legs
> at the ankles, fill the legs with recycle slurry, and hang the pants
> by the crotch over a tree branch to dry.
I've done this and it works great. However you do have to keep a close
eye on it so it doesn't get to dry. Also, if you don't have a lot of
clay use children's size jeans.
Jo
Jo Gilder
Panama City, FL
Jennifer M. Dubats on sun 28 jun 98
Jenna,
I heard of this done with canvas bags instead of jeans this might be a little
easier to get the clay out of . They hung them on two broom handles across a
couple of chairs. It sounded a bit like when I made yogurt cheese with cheese
cloth, the extra moisture slowly drips out leaving the clay/cheese in a
uniform consistency. I have been meaning to do this with some porcelain
scraps that I have sitting around. You and Don may have inspired me to
actually get moving on this.
Sincerely.
Jenny D.
Blue on wed 1 jul 98
>I read some ideas on here about clay recycling in order to be able to use
the old clay that I was given. I broke up the big chunks, then reduced them
to small bits using a wine bottle to thump them with. I put them in water
in a bucket (do you know that ice cream parlours sell their old buckets for
fifty cents...great for pickling too). Then I poured off the water and
poured the slush into a cotton pillowcase. This is sitting in an old dish
rack over a large pan...seems to be drying out nicely with no hard
spots...guess the cotton keeps the outside reasonably moist. Anyway, since
I shall be working with only small amounts of clay while I learn, this
method seems to be the best one for me.
Hope this helps with the student recycling problem.
Judy
Leona Stonebridge Arthen on fri 3 jul 98
I recycle clay by letting it dry out completely, then stuffing the broken
chunks into a cotton or canvas bag and soaking the bag in a bucket of
water. I usually let it sit in the water a week and then dump out the
water and let it firm up. This takes about a week or two depending on the
humidity in the studio. Once it feels firm, I turn the clay out of the bag
and wedge or pug it. It is a perfect consistency, albeit rather smelly.
Best of both worlds!
Leona
---
Leona Stonebridge Arthen
leona@javanet.com
Worthington, Massachusetts/USA
Bonnie Staffel on tue 28 jul 98
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I recycle clay by letting it dry out completely, then stuffing the broken
> chunks into a cotton or canvas bag and soaking the bag in a bucket of
> water. I usually let it sit in the water a week and then dump out the
> water and let it firm up. This takes about a week or two depending on the
> humidity in the studio. Once it feels firm, I turn the clay out of the bag
> and wedge or pug it. It is a perfect consistency, albeit rather smelly.
> Best of both worlds!
>
> Leona
>
>
> ---
> Leona Stonebridge Arthen
> leona@javanet.com
> Worthington, Massachusetts/USA
>
I recycle my clay by using my dry trimming scraps put in a plastic bag my original clay comes in. When 3/4 full I pour very hot water into the bag and let it slake. After a few days, I turn the bag upside down, slit the side to release the slurry, into a large bisque bowl. The bowl absorbs the water and in a day or two of three, I have wedgable clay. I have a Bluebird extruding pug mill and if I want my regular clay a little softer, I blend this recycled clay if wetter with my regular clay. This is good for my hand extruder. I have several sizes of thick bisque bowls and dry all my clay in these. By the way, I place a large cloth diaper or towel in the bowl first so as to be able to lift the moist clay out easily.
Bonnie Staffel
>
-----
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Blakbearr@aol.com on fri 3 sep 99
Subject: how do _you_ recycle clay?
You could pour your slurry into a old pillow case and hang... when most of
moisture drains out you would have a workable body.... just a suggestion as
I never take the time to save my excess, and like you,would have pieces of
unfinished projects surrounding me until i gave up and threw them out.....
good luck,
Patricia Joslin Smith
Black Bear Pottery
Blakbearr@aol.com
Fabienne Micheline Cassman on wed 8 nov 00
Hello folks, :)
I posted how I recycle clay on my site at
http://www.milkywayceramics.com/toolbox/recycle.htm Ever thought about
using your feet? Join the stampede. :)
Faye
--
Milky Way Ceramics http://www.milkywayceramics.com/
Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
I can reproduce them exactly.
Dale Neese on wed 28 nov 01
first of all, don't use anything bigger than a 5 gallon bucket for your =
slip and reclaims or it will get out of hand. When the 5 gallon is =
nearly full mix with a drill mixer until consistent. Pour contents of =
your 5 gallon bucket into a 2"X4" frame with hardware cloth bottom =
covered with sturdy fabric of some kind. I use some of this weed-block =
found at garden and nursery stores. I have had this huge white roll of =
this woven material that I haven't seen anything like it in a while. I =
doesn't mildew or deteriorate with constant use. If you set the clay =
outside for a short while you can reclaim it before some fabric starts =
to dissolve. I tried burlap and canvas and that was a disaster. Try old =
blue jeans. After the clay has set for a time I place the clay on a =
wood frame filled with plaster. The main point with the plaster is that =
it must be mixed so that it dries with a hard, smooth surface. I do not =
use any sharp tools on the plaster so that I don't risk getting plaster =
bits in with the clay. The clay should release from the plaster when =
hard enough to be turned to the other side. Then move the stiffened clay =
to the canvas covered wedging table, split the clay with the wire =
mounted on the table. Knead until consistent. Bag, date and place in a =
30 gallon plastic bucket with 1/2 inch of water in the bottom for =
moisture. Cover and wait for several months to use. I find after about 2 =
months it is perfect for pulling handles, goblet bases or extruding. I =
did this method for a while then skipped the kneading when I bought a =
de-airing pug mill. I like to reclaim in the mornings, a little part of =
the process early each day and it is done. Nice way to warm up before =
throwing. I don't know any easier way to reclaim your clay unless you =
have someone do it for you.
Dale Tex
Millie on thu 29 nov 01
at the end of a work session, I will put all my trim scraps, collapsed po=
ts, and rejects into a plastic bag. (newspaper ones are good) I add water=
, and like cooking, you get better at figuring out how much water, push m=
ost of the air out and close with a twist tie. I let it set for a day o=
r two til it seems fairly even, then when I am ready to start for the da=
y, I run it thru my trusty little bluebird without the deairing compresso=
r. then I just add in a 3 parts box clay to 1 part reclaim more or less =
and pug what I need for that day. this works for me because I can deal wi=
th small ammounts on a daily basis. when I used to put things in buckets,=
they were a lot of trouble, the buckets were heavy, my cats would drink=
the water on the top, mosquitos in the summer, bugs and other things wou=
ld fall in, and then I would start another bucket because I didn't want t=
o deal with the mess that the first bucket was.
does anyone else find it odd that the Bluebird is bright orange?
Millie in MD a little chilly, but rain, wonderful rain has been drizzli=
ng for the past few days. We are considered to be in drought conditions =
because our lack of rain this fall has allowed the resevoirs to be 8-12 f=
eet below the usual water line.
Gwyn Ace on thu 10 jan 02
Usually I have found that the re-preparation of reclaimed clay can =
incorporate air in the mixture and this can make the clay "short" I now =
use a de airing pugmill and this problem does not occur..
If you add a little milk to the clay slop and leave it to =
mature.....when stiffened to plastic.... the problem will disappear. =
..the main problem is to avoid any action which can aerate the clay.. =
Gwyn in N.Z.
=?iso-8859-1?q?Ela=20Trent?= on tue 21 may 02
Hi
Can you recycle clay too many times?
I re-constitute all my old trimmings, failed greenware pots etc but i have a
feeling that you should perhaps stop and that if you re-cycle too many times
this will lead to problems at the firing stage.
If i am right - how do you know when to stop being a miser and buy some more
clay!!!
Thanks
Ela
ps: in case you are interested i use earthstone original from valentines
clay in the uk
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalised at My Yahoo!.
Dupre Mr Marcy M on wed 22 may 02
Can you recycle clay too many times?
I re-constitute all my old trimmings, failed greenware pots etc but i have a
feeling that you should perhaps stop and that if you re-cycle too many times
this will lead to problems at the firing stage.
If i am right - how do you know when to stop being a miser and buy some more
clay!!!
Thanks
Ela
Ela,
Just my opinion, no real scientific evidence to support it. With that
warning:
Recycle all you need and want to. Just allow a few weeks' recovery time for
the clay get it's "body" back. After all, it sat in the ground for a few
hundred thousand years before you got your hands on it!
My method is to decant off the excess water from the slop buckets. Scoop
out the slurry and dump it all in a big canvas sheet, gather the corners,
and tie it into a bag. Keep in mind you'll have to CARRY this bag, so keep
it within your weight limits. If it's a nice warm day, I set the bag
outside on a section of warm driveway or a concrete slab and allow the bag
to drain for several hours.
Sometimes, I may let the bag drain and dry for a few days to get the slurry
to firm up. After it's reasonable firm--more than just a thick goop that
sticks to everything--I spread it out on a plaster wedging table. I lightly
spray a 50/50 mix of white vinegar and water on the surface and wedge as
best I can. Then spread the clay out and let it dry some more. Go throw
some pots, glaze some pots, count my blessings...
When the clay will "work," just shy of throwing consistency, I wedge it very
well and store it in bags, putting a small amount of vinegar (about a
tablespoon) in each 20 pound bag. I then let it sit for a full month before
using it.
The way to tell when the clay is ready is to open the bag, and using your
hand to fan, scoop the fumes from the bag toward you. Do not stick your
face into the bag and suck in all the bacteria! When the clay smells like
Spring farm earth, it's ready. There should be a rich, earthy odor to it.
If there is not, seal the bag and let it sit some more.
When the clay is ready, cut and wedge it into workable sizes and make lots
of pots! You'll be able to feel the difference.
It's all the better if you have a pug mill or powered clay mixer. Pug up
all the scraps and slurry, adding some dry mix for firmness, then add
vinegar and bag it. Let it age for a month. Check it. Use it.
Hope this works for you.
Tig
Steve Mills on thu 23 may 02
With the clays you're using you have no worries, some clays do get
*tired*, but wrapping them up and leaving them for a week or so to rest
does, in my experience, sort that out. An occasional drop of cider
vinegar in the re-cycle bucket helps as well as it promotes organic
growth which aids plasticity.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , =3D?iso-8859-1?q?Ela=3D20Trent?=3D
writes
>Hi
>
>Can you recycle clay too many times?
>
>I re-constitute all my old trimmings, failed greenware pots etc but i hav=
>e a feeling that you should perhaps stop and that if you re-cycle too man=
>y times this will lead to problems at the firing stage.
>
>If i am right - how do you know when to stop being a miser and buy some m=
>ore clay!!!
>
>Thanks
>
>Ela
>
>ps: in case you are interested i use earthstone original from valentines =
>clay in the uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get personalised at My Yahoo!.
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Russel Fouts on fri 24 may 02
Clay Recyclers,
>> With the clays you're using you have no worries, some clays do get
*tired*, but wrapping them up and leaving them for a week or so to rest
does, in my experience, sort that out. An occasional drop of cider vinegar
in the re-cycle bucket helps as well as it promotes organic
growth which aids plasticity. <<
I find that the best way to keep the clay plastic is to never let it dry
out. This might be easier for hand builders like me though.
As I work and make scraps, I drop them right away in a bucket (no
water). Then when I'm done working I spritz the clay in the bucket with
some water from a sprayer (not much, just cover the surface) then use a
piece of 4x4 to ram it down until it's all compressed, then keep the
bucket sealed when I'm not working.
I do the same procedure of spritzing and ramming each time I add new
clay. If the scraps are a bit drier, I use a little more water.
After a day or two of rest, the clay in the bucket is ready to use. It
doesn't matter how full the bucket is or isn't. A day or two of rest is
enough, the clay is always ready to re-use.
I cut out what I need with wire a cheese cutter and hand-wedge a little
before use.
I think this would work for throwers if your scraps weren't too wet or
too dry. For instance if you threw fairly dry and trimmed pretty early.
Actually, if you threw REALLY wet and trimmed REALLY dry and let it rest
for a couple more days, it would probably work as well. ;-)
Your mileage may vary.
Russel
--
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Email: Russel.Fouts@Skynet.be
Http://www.mypots.com
http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat
"There is a theory which states that
if ever anyone discovers exactly what
the universe is for and why it's here,
it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizzarly
inexplicable."
"There is another theory which states
that this has already happened!"
Douglas Adams' The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Richard Aerni on fri 28 jan 05
When I initially responded to primalmommy's posting wondering:
"Why in the WORLD would anyone throw away clay?",
I was giving my point of view. For me, for a variety of reasons, it doesn't
make sense to recycle my clay. What tends to happen in these discussions,
and what has happened here, is that people respond with absolute statements.
Which is kind of funny, given the extremely individualistic nature of
making pots, and potters' mentalities in general. Folks, there really is no
right or wrong way to run one's studio. Everyone has a different set of
variables in play, from size of studio, time available, resources available,
equipment available, etc, etc, etc, that tend to dictate one's choices in
this regard, and in many others. Because one potter recycles clay, and
another doesn't, doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. What counts is
that you've given thought to your own studio procedures, they work for you,
and you feel good about them.
We are all making our own paths, and pots, and thank god they aren't all alike.
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Donn Buchfinck on sun 13 feb 05
I have jumped in here and I wanted to drop my two cents worth.
There are a couple of great ways to recycle slip.
Keep that newspaper for wrapping pots.
Take your bucket of slip and pour it into a cotton pillow case, about half
full. then tie off the top and set it somewhere you don't mind the seepage. OK
the newspapers might come in handy at this stage.
Another way to deal with this is to borrow a milk crate. Take a pillow case
and fit it in the crate, it fits right in. Fill the pillow case up and let it
sit until it is hard enough to pull out. You can stack crates up, it is a
great space saver.
This makes great dense plastic clay,
Donn Buchfinck
Oakland California
_pottery_Donn_Buchfinck_
(http://www.geocities.com/clayincal/pottery_Donn_Buchfinck.html)
_http://www.geocities.com/clayincal/pottery_Donn_Buchfinck.html_
(http://www.geocities.com/clayincal/pottery_Donn_Buchfinck.html)
John Bandurchin on sun 13 feb 05
Ok, here's my 2 cents worth also.
I can't remember when, but a while ago there was an article in one of our
magazines - I can remember if it was CM or another.
The article dealt with making drying racks for clay. I did it for us and
we're quite happy with it. We have a total of 10 drying boxes about 12" by
about 18" and 3.5" deep. We keep them on a rack with a couple of inches
space between them. The rack is a couple of 2X4's vertically with 1x2's
about 28" long glued and nailed to them, so this is a 2 sided rack, with
each side having 5 drying boxes. I like this because with the boxes being
only 3.5" deep, the clay will dry in a reasonable time.
The bottoms of the boxes are 1/4" mesh hardware cloth (coarse screening).
We put a single layer of cloth (discarded bedsheets, etc - just about
anything will do) on the bottom, and large enough to fold over the top of
the clay. The wicking action of the cloth helps with drying.
Our clay to be recycled goes into 3-gallon pails and gets mixed up with a
big mixing tool on an electric drill before being poured into the drying
boxes.
This was our second attempt at this. Our first go round was with boxes more
than twice this size - I must have been a lot younger then. The current
boxes hold approximately a bag of clay - about the right size for handling,
not too heavy.
Another detail - the platform has good sturdy casters so the whole thing can
be moved around. Especially helpful since we don't have a great deal of
room.
And the reclaimed clay throws better than the clay we get from our supplier.
John Bandurchin
Baltimore Ontario Canada
Lili Krakowski on wed 11 jan 06
Mary: I do not know what you did in your former, pre-clay life--but it =
clearly was something where compulsiveness, obsession, fixation. etc. =
were a plus. I am NOT picking on you, just want to alert you to the =
fact that clay is a relaxed,easy-going, who gives a mousefart? =
occupation. Burn your Serious Scientist Outfit and put on your Little =
Scientist one.
I use one or two clay bodies at most. When I am testing a new bunch, =
as I have had to do quite a number of times in my life, the clays all =
get recycled together. I then test, the mix decide if it is ok, and if =
not use it for stuff where it does not matter. Like tiles that will be =
coated with slip; like the forms from which I will make molds; like the =
molds I will bisque and use....
If I am mixing some higher fired and lower firing clays, and tests of =
the mix are no good, see molds above. If the firing temp is ok, but the =
color weird, I use slips to separate the yucky color from the glaze....
on the other hand if you are consistently firing at two different temps, =
then keep two recycling bins...
And how is the Big Plate Business going?
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Daniel Semler on fri 13 jan 06
Hi All,
Just to toss in a thought.
I recycle in a way modelled on clay body mixing from dry powder described
David Beumee in Studio Potter. Thus I dry the recycle out completely
then slake
it heavily, beat the tar out of it and dry it to plastic.
One thing you do get from it is a chance to observe clay and how it
behaves in
these states. You can learn a lot from it.
Thanx
D
SUSAN GOLD on tue 27 apr 10
Has anyone tried adding Bentonite to recycled clay to make it more plastic?
We use a combination of high fire clays in our studio: porcelain, b-mix,
soldate, sandstone buff and occasionally others. They all go into the pug
mill to be recycled but the clay is often raggeddy, even when it sits aroun=
d
for a couple of months.
Michael Wendt on wed 28 apr 10
Susan
Is your pug mill a deairing pug mill?
Most plasticity problems in otherwise high clay content
clay bodies stem from air inclusions, in my opinion.
The original moist clay from suppliers is well deaired
in large, high vacuum deairing pug mills.
Little studio pug mills chop air into the clay and actually
make
it somewhat shorter unless they have a deairing chamber.
Try adding the bentonite in a batch to see what happens but,
adding bentonite will likely make for more cracking
problems.
Better to discard the clay rather than waste time with high
loss rates.
Just my opinion...
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Susan wrote:
Has anyone tried adding Bentonite to recycled clay to make
it more plastic?
We use a combination of high fire clays in our studio:
porcelain, b-mix,
soldate, sandstone buff and occasionally others. They all go
into the pug
mill to be recycled but the clay is often raggeddy, even
when it sits around
for a couple of months.
rickmahaffey@COMCAST.NET on thu 29 apr 10
The shortness you discribe comes from air included in the clay by your pugm=
=3D
ill.=3DC2=3DA0 Our De-airing pugmill does an ok job when it is held in the =
vacu=3D
um phase long enough.=3DC2=3DA0 If it is not de-aired long enough lots of w=
edgi=3D
ng is still needed.=3DC2=3DA0 A better way to reclaim it is to mix it into =
a sl=3D
urry and then dry it out in either plaster bats or in a redbrick trough lin=
=3D
ed with canvas until it approaches wedgeable consistency.=3DC2=3DA0 This ta=
kes =3D
more time than throwing it into a pug mill but the result is far superior.=
=3D
=3D20
We add ball clay to our recycled batch as we run it through the pug mill. I=
=3D
think we need to leave it in the vacuum chamber longer to get better resul=
=3D
ts.=3DC2=3DA0 I like this short clay for making into jars that are streched=
to =3D
show the texture on the outer surface.=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
YMMV,=3D20
Rick=3D20
ivor & olive lewis on thu 29 apr 10
Dear SUSAN GOLD,
When I was teaching there was always a lot of clay to recycle. Students who
are learning to use the wheel consume a lot of water, so superfine clay
particles tended to be washed away.
To restore the original qualities of our reclaimed clay I would add Ball
Clay. Ball Clay does not adsorb an excessive amount of water. Sprinkled ove=
r
a bed of slops it quickly slaked and could be worked into the stiffening
mass. This helped to restore Workability, maintaining Stiffness without
causing Shortness.
Bentonite is a mineral that can adsorb excessive volumes of water and thoug=
h
it seems to restore plasticity, workability deteriorates. Given your clay
stock, my suggestion would be to choose a white firing Ball Clay.
<plastic?
We use a combination of high fire clays in our studio: porcelain, b-mix,
soldate, sandstone buff and occasionally others. They all go into the pug
mill to be recycled but the clay is often raggeddy, even when it sits aroun=
d
for a couple of months.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis,
Redhill,
South Australia
Dale Neese on thu 29 apr 10
Whilst attending the Philadelphia NCECA panel - lecture on Sexy Bodies - In
The Mix, with David Finkelnburg and Matthew Katz, a question put to the guy=
s
from "Porcelain For The People" makers involved mixing dry ingredients into
recycled clay, namely ball clay. These guys said it should be avoided
because it can change the composition of the clay body. Their suggestion is
to reclaim your clay without additions as Rick described in the first part
of his post. And as Rick said it takes more time to prepare without adding =
a
dry ingredient but it also produces a far more superior result.
The reason I've chimed in here with this is that for as long as I've been
around clay in facilities they've mixed ball clay into a wet reclaiming
claybody. Don't know where it got started or how it seemed to become an
acceptable addition to reclaiming clay. I noticed when teaching cone 6
oxidation years ago that we were getting glaze shivering after the firings.
Couldn't figure it out. Seems that one of the other instructors was mixing
ball clay into the reclaim. We didn't have a pug or a mixer and so maybe th=
e
problem was more pronounced because of the incomplete mixing. Incomplete
"particle packing".
Even it the clay body lecture it became apparent that prolonged hard mixing
of the clay and the order in which the materials are individually mixed int=
o
the clay body is so important to having a well performing and firing clay
body. "Particle packing"
All along in my demos to students I have stressed that the most important
thing that influences one's beginning success in pottery is the preparation
of the clay body whether you are throwing, handbuilding, slab rolling or
slip casting. So if you experience problems with the glaze firing, crazing,
shivering, cracking, perhaps it's a clay body problem rather than a glaze
problem? We talk all the time about fixing a crazing glaze when we should b=
e
more aware of our clay bodies especially for clay bodies to be used for
functional ware.
For myself reclaiming clay is a labor intensive activitiy that I'd rather
devote time to something else. Therefore my reclaim bucket is only 5
gallons. When it's full it's time to recycle. Using a drill and a drywall
paste mixer I really, really blend that 5 gallon bucket up into a consistan=
t
mixture. I sometimes use porcelain or another cone 10 body. All the
trimmings go into the slip bucket. Pour the bucket out into a frame with a
porous liner to dry before running the clay through the pugmill. Bag it and
keep for a while. Better plastic clay for handles and goblet stems. No adde=
d
ingredients except my time.
Dale Tex
"across the alley from the Alamo"
Helotes, Texas USA
www.daleneese.com
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Lee Love on thu 29 apr 10
Rick,
Short clay is good for teabowls too, to get a nice texture when
you trim the foot. Flower can make plastic clay short, wedged in, if
you are in a pinch.
Got Hamada? See my ebay listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D3D110524753531&ssPageN=
am=3D
e=3D3DSTRK:MESELX:IT
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
ivor & olive lewis on tue 4 may 10
Dear Dale Neese,
In their arguments about reclaiming Clay Bodies did David Finkelnburg and
Matthew Katz discuss mineral content of raw materials, especially the
mineral content of Ball Clay taken from different natural deposits or
commercial mixtures that have been prepared for other industries that are
later adopted by the Studio Pottery and Ceramic Arts community ? Informatio=
n
in miners catalogues reveals that some raw clay materials are far from bein=
g
one hundred percent hydrous Aluminium Silicate. Some may contain up to
thirty percent quartz., fractions of micaceous and felspathic material as
well as significant amounts of iron compounds.
Relating to using Ball clay to augment and restore the working properties o=
f
pre-used clay was a process. I learned that this could be done successfully
when attending evening classes a Sunderland School of Art in the mid
nineteen sixties. That I adopted it when I started teaching in Australia
leads me to believe that the defects it may cause, exemplified in your list
(So if you experience problems with the glaze firing, crazing, shivering,
cracking, perhaps it's a clay body problem rather than a glaze problem? )
were not prevalent or persistent.enough to cause concern.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis,
Redhill,
South Australia
Dale Neese on tue 4 may 10
Hello Ivor,
the lecture at NCECA at which Dave Finkelnburg, Matthew Katz spoke primaril=
y
addressed the mixing of clay bodies, particle size, plastics and
non-plastics. The question of ball clay additions to reclaimed clay came
from the audience attendants in the question and answer session at the end
of the session and was only touched on briefly.
The only mention of ceramic raw materials was the fact that we as
artist-potters who mix their own clays are pretty much at the mercy of
industrial grade raw materials processed for applications that use these
materials in far greater quantities than we use in making studio pots. I
would assume that most involved ceramicists and processed clay suppliers
know this fact and prepare their clay bodies accordingly the material
available.
As far as additions of ball clay to a reclaimed clay, Mat and Dave did not
recommend the practice as it relating to mixing. It was their opinion that
incomplete mixing of the ball clay could lead to further problems that I
spoke of. In a classroom situation, students hand wedging ball clay into
their clay is incomplete mixing in my experience. Those students taking
their wheel "failures", dumping on cup or two of ball clay, hand wedging th=
e
wetness away then back on the wheel again. If further mixing by pugmill wer=
e
employed it might not be so crucial to the final out come. I prefer not to
rely on teaching or recommending this simplistic habit to others but in
favor of a little more effort and time in preparing a clay body to it's bes=
t
potential.
With respect,
Dale Tex
"across the alley from the Alamo"
Helotes, Texas USA
www.daleneese.com
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database 5085 (20100504) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature=
database 5085 (20100504) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
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David Finkelnburg on wed 5 may 10
Ivor,
No, we did not get into raw material analyses. You are right, of course=
,
that ball clays typically contain a lot of quartz. In the US it averages a=
t
least 13%, more or less. I am beginning to wonder if all the beneficial
effects on plasticity attributed to addition of ball clays doesn't have mor=
e
to do with the size distribution of the ball clay. Ignoring, for the
moment, the other contaminants, it is easy to consider the quartz in the
ball clay as just part of the silica (aka flint) in the recipe. As Matt
pointed out in the presentation, the quartz/feldspar ratio of a porcelain
body controls the maturing temperature. The mix of clays controls
plasticity.
Good potting,
Dave Finkelnburg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On: Tue, 4 May 2010 11:38:49 +0930
ivor & olive lewis wrote:
In their arguments about reclaiming Clay Bodies did David Finkelnburg and
Matthew Katz discuss mineral content of raw materials, especially the
mineral content of Ball Clay taken from different natural deposits or
commercial mixtures that have been prepared for other industries that are
later adopted by the Studio Pottery and Ceramic Arts community ? Informatio=
n
in miners catalogues reveals that some raw clay materials are far from bein=
g
one hundred percent hydrous Aluminium Silicate. Some may contain up to
thirty percent quartz., fractions of micaceous and felspathic material as
well as significant amounts of iron compounds.
ivor & olive lewis on thu 6 may 10
Thanks for that confirmation Dave.
If the information published in the Journal of ACERS in an article written
by Carty and Senapati (Jan.1998) the Quartz fraction exceeds the Kaolinite
fraction in Ball Clay by a significant amount.
I would not doubt the influence of the K-Felspar/Quartz ratio on the
maturation temperature of porcelain bodies, nor the effects on plasticity o=
f
extending particle size distribution.
My clay, much of which has been maturing for a couple of years or so, is
responding well on the wheel. Some of it developing a black crust
reminiscent of some vintage cheeses.
All the best,
Ivor
----- Original Message -----
From: David Finkelnburg
To: clayart
Cc: iandol@WESTNET.COM.AU
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: recycling clay
Ivor,
No, we did not get into raw material analyses. You are right, of
course, that ball clays typically contain a lot of quartz. In the US it
averages at least 13%, more or less. I am beginning to wonder if all the
beneficial effects on plasticity attributed to addition of ball clays
doesn't have more to do with the size distribution of the ball clay.
Ignoring, for the moment, the other contaminants, it is easy to consider th=
e
quartz in the ball clay as just part of the silica (aka flint) in the
recipe. As Matt pointed out in the presentation, the quartz/feldspar ratio
of a porcelain body controls the maturing temperature. The mix of clays
controls plasticity.
Good potting,
Dave Finkelnburg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On: Tue, 4 May 2010 11:38:49 +0930
ivor & olive lewis wrote:
In their arguments about reclaiming Clay Bodies did David Finkelnburg and
Matthew Katz discuss mineral content of raw materials, especially the
mineral content of Ball Clay taken from different natural deposits or
commercial mixtures that have been prepared for other industries that ar=
e
later adopted by the Studio Pottery and Ceramic Arts community ?
Information
in miners catalogues reveals that some raw clay materials are far from
being
one hundred percent hydrous Aluminium Silicate. Some may contain up to
thirty percent quartz., fractions of micaceous and felspathic material as
well as significant amounts of iron compounds.
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Snail Scott on wed 22 dec 10
On Dec 22, 2010, at 2:02 PM, Doug Trott wrote:
> Is it really worth it to recycle clay? Is this practice largely a
> tradition, at one time being necessary but now of questionable value? =
=3D
A
> pugger looks like a nice tool, and yet I can hardly imagine it paying =3D
for
> itself - would the money be better spent on bags of prepared clay? =3D
And the
> time better spent on making pots? Is there a volume threshold? What =3D
do you
> do, and why?
There is definitely a cost/value relationship.
Cost is not only monetary replacement cost of=3D20
the clay versus cost of reprocessing tools, (aka=3D20
pugmill or whatever) but also the value of your=3D20
own time. =3D20
Quantity is certainly a factor. At school, I have=3D20
the students take turns reprocessing clay every=3D20
day. It teaches them something fundamental=3D20
about the nature of clay as well as saving our=3D20
limited funds, and all those students generate=3D20
a lot of scrap. I figure reprocessing saves us=3D20
about $200/semester - a fair chunk of change=3D20
when compared with our total budget.=3D20
In my own studio, I don't reprocess. I don't generate=3D20
much scrap, it's not a good use of my limited time=3D20
to mess with it, and the cash loss is negligible. I=3D20
don't chuck it all out (into the erosion gullies) right=3D20
away, though - I may need it if I run short and my=3D20
supplier can't accommodate my order in time. So,=3D20
that's a good reason for me to reprocess: because=3D20
not doing so would mean doing without. So, I keep=3D20
a bucket of scrap in a corner for emergencies.=3D20
Under normal circumstances, though, it just ain't=3D20
worth it for me.
Reprocessing doesn't have to mean high-dollar=3D20
equipment, though. Again, volume is a factor, since=3D20
using the tools a lot means the cost per quantity of=3D20
clay is reduced. It would take me a helluva long time=3D20
to justify the cost of a pugmill or mixer just for reclaim.=3D20
Would you want to own a car if you'd only drive it=3D20
once a month? If you use the same equipment for=3D20
other purposes, like mixing from scratch, that's another=3D20
factor, but for reclaim only ? I'd better use it a whole=3D20
lot! When I do reprocess clay, whether in my own=3D20
studio or at school, we use basic low-tech methods.
We make sure all scrap is in small chunks and let=3D20
it dry completely. Fill a bucket about 2/3 full of scrap,=3D20
then fill with water until it covers the scrap. Wait a few=3D20
hours (or until you get around to it), then smear the=3D20
resulting slip onto a dry plaster slab. Depending on=3D20
the dryness of the plaster, a 3/4" thick slip layer will=3D20
turn into wedgable clay in 2-3 hours. You can also=3D20
put the slip into fabric bags or slings and let it drip=3D20
dry. (When I make my own clay, I use the same=3D20
method, but with a thorough dry-mixing followed by=3D20
blunging before setting it out to stiffen up.) Basically=3D20
free, and not terribly time consuming either, unless=3D20
(see above) you are producing mass quantities of=3D20
scrap. If so, it is up to you to figure out the value of=3D20
your time, the scarcity of your cash, and the=3D20
relationship between the two.
-Snail=3D
William & Susan Schran User on wed 22 dec 10
On 12/22/10 3:02 PM, "Doug Trott" wrote:
> A question for those like me who purchase a prepared clay body:
> Is it really worth it to recycle clay?
>What do you do, and why?
I use prepared clays, don't have space or equipment for mixing.
I recycle my clay.
Have a 2'x2' thick plaster slab framed with 2x4's and attached cutting wire=
.
I use this also for drying slurry from my 5 gallon slurry buckets.
After drying to preferred plastic state, I remove it and using 5-8 pounds a=
t
a time, I cut/slam/wedge the clay and put back in bags.
Total time (not counting the days of drying) is about 1/2 hour for
"mixing/wedging" the clay.
I just make sure the amount of slurry produced does not get ahead of me.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Doug Trott on wed 22 dec 10
A question for those like me who purchase a prepared clay body:
Is it really worth it to recycle clay? Is this practice largely a
tradition, at one time being necessary but now of questionable value? A
pugger looks like a nice tool, and yet I can hardly imagine it paying for
itself - would the money be better spent on bags of prepared clay? And the
time better spent on making pots? Is there a volume threshold? What do yo=
u
do, and why?
If and when I mix my own clay body, of course I would recycle clay.
Doug
http://www.prairie-garden.com
KATHI LESUEUR on wed 22 dec 10
On Dec 22, 2010, at 3:02 PM, Doug Trott wrote:
> A question for those like me who purchase a prepared clay body:
>=3D20
> Is it really worth it to recycle clay? Is this practice largely a
> tradition, at one time being necessary but now of questionable value? =
=3D
A
> pugger looks like a nice tool, and yet I can hardly imagine it paying =3D
for
> itself - would the money be better spent on bags of prepared clay? =3D
And the
> time better spent on making pots? Is there a volume threshold? What =3D
do you
> do, and why?
>=3D20
> If and when I mix my own clay body, of course I would recycle clay.
>=3D20
> Doug
> http://www.prairie-garden.com
>=3D20
I have had a pug mill for most of my thirty-five year career. About =3D
fifteen years ago I bought a Bluebird Powerstar because I knew it could =3D
handle heavy duty extruding. I pug all of my scrap. I, also, pug all of =3D
my throwing clay whether straight from the bag or mixed with scrap. Much =
=3D
of my scrap goes to goes to extruded work. Imagine one hundred pounds =3D
of scrap extruded for $6 business card holders. About 1/3lb. of clay at =3D
most for each. That's a lot of money to spend on other things. I =3D
figure my pugmill paid for itself in the first year. And, with two wrist =
=3D
surgeries, and now my second shoulder surgery, wedging clay is =3D
unthinkable. My pugmill has enabled me to continue doing what I love to =3D
do.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
Eric Hansen on thu 23 dec 10
Clay recycles forever - I was digging clay that had been weathering
for 300 million years & it was still good. You can always shit-pile it
somewhere in the yard until you figure out your recycle scenario. When
it gets dry it can easily be crushed, and when wetted properly turns
right back into what it was before. Amazing. I wouldn't buy a pug mill
unless your cost benefit ratio tells you specifically it makes you
money because you dont need a pugger to make clay all you need is dry
clay and water
- h -
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Doug Trott wrote:
> A question for those like me who purchase a prepared clay body:
>
> Is it really worth it to recycle clay? =3DA0Is this practice largely a
> tradition, at one time being necessary but now of questionable value? =3D=
A0=3D
A
> pugger looks like a nice tool, and yet I can hardly imagine it paying for
> itself - would the money be better spent on bags of prepared clay? =3DA0A=
nd=3D
the
> time better spent on making pots? =3DA0Is there a volume threshold? =3DA0=
What=3D
do you
> do, and why?
>
> If and when I mix my own clay body, of course I would recycle clay.
>
> Doug
> http://www.prairie-garden.com
>
--=3D20
Eric Alan Hansen
Stonehouse Studio Pottery
Alexandria, Virginia
americanpotter.blogspot.com
thesuddenschool.blogspot.com
hansencookbook.blogspot.com
"Simplify, simplify, simplify" - Thoreau
Steve Mills on thu 23 dec 10
I always recycle. The two main reasons are; recycled clay (the way I do it)=
,=3D
is always a huge improvement on the new stuff, and I'm careful with money =
-=3D
correction - mean!
I have owned and got rid of 3 pugmills - I prefer to hand-wedge. But then I=
'=3D
m no longer in production like I was, so that colours my attitude. But I al=
w=3D
ays have and always will have my simple reclaim system: dried off scrap - s=
l=3D
opped down with some Vinegar and water - poured into drying bags and hung u=
p=3D
- wedge and re-use. Takes up little room, only costs a little time, and no=
t=3D
a lot of hard work!
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
On 22 Dec 2010, at 20:02, Doug Trott wrote:
> A question for those like me who purchase a prepared clay body:
>=3D20
> Is it really worth it to recycle clay? Is this practice largely a
> tradition, at one time being necessary but now of questionable value? A
> pugger looks like a nice tool, and yet I can hardly imagine it paying for
> itself - would the money be better spent on bags of prepared clay? And t=
h=3D
e
> time better spent on making pots? Is there a volume threshold? What do =
y=3D
ou
> do, and why?
>=3D20
> If and when I mix my own clay body, of course I would recycle clay.
>=3D20
> Doug
> http://www.prairie-garden.com
Jeff Longtin on thu 23 dec 10
Doug,
I think the question has more to do with the amount of clay you intend to
use than with your personal preference.
If you become at all proficient in throwing you'll find you can use up a
lot of clay in any one throwing session. Unless you're throwing extremely
thin pots you'll find you have a lot of scraps. Unless you're a trust fund
baby you'll want to recycle your throwing scraps. That's where a pugmill c=
omes
in handy.
As the resident "pugmill" for many years, in my youth, I can tell you that
wedging is extremely tough on your wrists after awhile. While its suggested
that the "conical" way of wedging saves your wrists it really doesn't if
you do it often enough.
As well the clay body you use might affect your decision. Stoneware clay
seems to recycle really easily. (Allowed to dry on plaster a bit of wedging
brings it back to life.) Porcelain clay, on the other hand, seems to lose
its charm once its been dried and recycled. Having a pugmill on hand to
recycle the porcelain scraps is a good way to prevent it from reaching tha=
t
point.
take care
Jeff Longtin
Minneapolis
In a message dated 12/22/2010 6:57:00 P.M. Central Standard Time,
bdtrott@GMAIL.COM writes:
A question for those like me who purchase a prepared clay body:
Is it really worth it to recycle clay? Is this practice largely a
tradition, at one time being necessary but now of questionable value? A
pugger looks like a nice tool, and yet I can hardly imagine it paying for
itself - would the money be better spent on bags of prepared clay? And th=
e
time better spent on making pots? Is there a volume threshold? What do
you
do, and why?
If and when I mix my own clay body, of course I would recycle clay.
Doug
http://www.prairie-garden.com
steve graber on thu 23 dec 10
i acquired a pug mill pretty much for free.=3DA0 until then i didn't see th=
e =3D
value =3D0Afor reclaiming my old clay.=3DA0 NOW you can't take away my pug =
and =3D
if it died i'd =3D0Adefinitely buy one!=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0A=3D0Alike unused fil=
m i can't =3D
see throwing away old clay.=3DA0 and my disipline=3DA0sucks for =3D0Astayin=
g onto=3D
p of small batches of clay to reclaim.=3DA0 i eventually got into making =
=3D0Aa=3D
clay blend with super fine saw dust and=3DA0like the results and will do i=
t =3D
=3D0Aoften.=3DA0 for my piles of scrap clay i spend maybe 2 hours getting a=
bat=3D
ch =3D0Aprepared that lasts me a long time at my current pace of throwing.=
=3DA0=3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0Aget a pug mill if you can, or when you=3DA0can.=3DA0 =3D0A=
=3DA0Steve Grab=3D
er, Graber's Pottery, Inc=3D0AClaremont, California USA=3D0AThe Steve Tool =
- fo=3D
r awesome texture on pots! =3D0Awww.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery=
.c=3D
om =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AOn Laguna Clay's website=3D0Ahttp://www.lagunaclay.com/bl=
ogs/ =3D0A=3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A----- Original Message ----=3D0A> From: Doug Trott GMAIL.CO=3D
M>=3D0A> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0A> Sent: Wed, December 22, 2010 12=
:02:=3D
55 PM=3D0A> Subject: Recycling Clay=3D0A> =3D0A> A question for those like =
me who=3D
purchase a prepared clay body:=3D0A> =3D0A> Is it really worth it to recyc=
le c=3D
lay?=3DA0 Is this practice largely a=3D0A> tradition, at one time being nec=
essa=3D
ry but now of questionable value?=3DA0 A=3D0A> pugger looks like a nice too=
l, a=3D
nd yet I can hardly imagine it paying for=3D0A> itself - would the money be=
b=3D
etter spent on bags of prepared clay?=3DA0 And the=3D0A> time better spent =
on m=3D
aking pots?=3DA0 Is there a volume threshold?=3DA0 What do you=3D0A> do, an=
d why?=3D
=3D0A> =3D0A> If and when I mix my own clay body, of course I would recycle=
cla=3D
y.=3D0A> =3D0A> Doug=3D0A> http://www.prairie-garden.com=3D0A> =3D0A=3D0A=
=3D0A
Pottery by John on thu 23 dec 10
Doug Trott,
To add to your knowledge base on the clay recycling, I do recycle clay, in
small lots, much in the manner Snail Scott described using a plaster slab.
Clay is my avocation and the amount of scrap I generate is small. I
generally take the larger wet scrap from a throwing session and dry it
overnight on the plaster slab. I usually remember to take this off the next
morning into a moisture retaining container, and wedge it up when I get a
chance. For small bits that don't want to immediately come out of the tray,
I occassionally clean out the tray into a plastic quart paint bucket. I
don't change my throwing water often, as I find the clay solids in the wate=
r
help with throwing, kind of like slurry. When it gets pretty thick, I let i=
t
sit until it gets clear water on top, take the clear water off and put the
resulting clay "soup" into the quart paint bucket with the dry scrap. I
stir to mix, let it sit and saturate a while, then pour it onto the plaster
slab. I have wedgable clay the next day.
I find that recycled clay, when wedged into new clay, improves the throwing
properties. Perhaps it is the fines and aging with sloughed bits of the
potter that makes the recycle have beneficial qualities. I also am not
throwing out clay, or having to find a place to dispose of it, and that
makes me feel better.
John Lowes
Sandy Springs, Georgia
http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/
Doug Trott on mon 27 dec 10
Thanks to all for the responses on and off list. It sounds like recycling
makes sense for most.
I have recycled in quantity once, using three old pillowcases. I combined
throwing slop with a bunch of bone-dry trimming, and let the pillowcases se=
t
on a concrete floor. I later did a first wedging, dumping the wet clay on
my table (canvas over cement backer-board), and then storing in plastic
bags. I have found that it takes a tremendous amount of wedging to get the
air out, plus I still had some lumps. It seemed like a lot of work!
Doug
http://www.prairie-garden.com
Eleanora Eden on mon 27 dec 10
Hi Doug,
This is the method that has proven very easy for me:
Put the bone dry trims in a bucket, add plenty of water, wait a few days.
The trims are then slaked. Pour off extra water, and go in with a power dr=
ill
and a clay mixing bit. Trims are now primo slop. Add slops and mix again.
When this is poured into pillow cases and firmed up (I do mine by hanging t=
he
darn bags by a rope over a beam and waiting a few weeks) it wedges very,
very easily. Wedging is a matter of homogenizing outer and inner layers ra=
ther
than removing lumps.
Best,
Eleanora
>Thanks to all for the responses on and off list. It sounds like recycling
>makes sense for most.
>
>I have recycled in quantity once, using three old pillowcases. I combined
>throwing slop with a bunch of bone-dry trimming, and let the pillowcases s=
et
>on a concrete floor. I later did a first wedging, dumping the wet clay on
>my table (canvas over cement backer-board), and then storing in plastic
>bags. I have found that it takes a tremendous amount of wedging to get th=
e
>air out, plus I still had some lumps. It seemed like a lot of work!
>
>Doug
>http://www.prairie-garden.com
--
Bellows Falls Vermont
www.eleanoraeden.com
Lee Love on mon 27 dec 10
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Doug Trott wrote:
> my table (canvas over cement backer-board), and then storing in plastic
> bags. =3DA0I have found that it takes a tremendous amount of wedging to g=
et=3D
the
> air out, plus I still had some lumps. =3DA0It seemed like a lot of work!
It is best not to mix dried trimmings with slop. It assures
that you will get lumps.
At my teacher's workshop, we had a mountain of clay, all in
zippered rice bags, some of them disintegrating. There was enough
clay trimmings to last the grandson a long, long time.
We recycled by using a large plastic container that is used
for mixing up plaster. We would haul the bags of clay over and put
down 2" thick layers of trimmings and then we would use a garden
sprinkler to uniformly wet the layer. Then we would put another 2"
layer on top of that, breaking any chucks or larger chucks into
smaller pieces. That would get another sprinkling and then another
layer of clay until the trough was filled. We would then cover the
trough with plastic and then mats to and ware boards to keep the
plastic from blowing away. The next day, we would take clumps of
the now plastic trimmings and stack it in a pile next to the deairing
pugmill. Everything was put through the pugmill twice.
After I left, they purchase a gigantic shimpo pugmill that had
a hug bin. It made pugging recycled clay much faster.
My teacher switched totally over to using his trimming
recycle clay for his iron clay, because the clay guy was having
trouble with his pugmill shedding iron bits into the clay when he
mixed it. And also, he kept making his prices higher and higher and
Sensei thought he was being gouged.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
DJBrewer88 on mon 27 dec 10
I use empty half gallon ice cream tubs for scraps. I keep it moist and
covered, so its pretty much like goopy pudding. When it gets full, I
slop half of it between two 12-inch squares of saltillo tile from
Mexico, and in 40 minutes, the pudding slop is firm moist clay ready to
wedge -- no longer pudding! I wedge it up and throw it.
I would never attempt to do 5 gallons of slop. I'm not strong enough to
lift that much clay, much less wedge it! I work with small quantities
because it fits my strength and lifestyle!
I spoze it would work with pillowcases -- though it would take longer
than 40 minutes to dry out, and would drip everywhere and make a mess.
but if its hung outside, it would not matter so much if it dripped on
dirt. Depends on your neighbors and deed restrictions. We don't have
either!
much love
DJ
***************************************************************
On 12/27/2010 9:26 AM, Doug Trott wrote:
> Thanks to all for the responses on and off list. It sounds like recyclin=
g
> makes sense for most.
>
> I have recycled in quantity once, using three old pillowcases. I combine=
d
> throwing slop with a bunch of bone-dry trimming, and let the pillowcases =
set
> on a concrete floor. I later did a first wedging, dumping the wet clay o=
n
> my table (canvas over cement backer-board), and then storing in plastic
> bags. I have found that it takes a tremendous amount of wedging to get t=
he
> air out, plus I still had some lumps. It seemed like a lot of work!
>
> Doug
> http://www.prairie-garden.com
>
Lynn Wheeler on tue 28 dec 10
Hello Doug,
I agree with Dave.
Once you try throwing with clay "wedged" the Michael Wendt way, you won't g=
o
back. You get one million layers with just 20 cut/slams. (1,048,576 to be
exact.) I can wedge more clay at once, by a factor of 2 at least, with half
the effort and virtually no shoulder/back strain.
A great way to demonstrate this technique, which I do in the beginning
classes I teach, is to sacrifice 10 lbs each of two clays, each of a
different color. Put 5 lbs of each different color together. Take one 10 lb=
.
pair and wedge the traditional spiral way, and the other pair and wedge the
Michael Wendt way. Start the timer and wedge only as long as it takes to do
20 cuts which will probably be no more than a couple of minutes. Cut in hal=
f
and compare.
This method (I call it "million-layer wedging") has made all the difference
to potters in a community setting where we have to often throw with used
clay in not-the-best condition.
I sometimes see my students going way past 20 cuts/slams - because, believe
it or not, it's fun!
Best wishes to all,
Lynn
Worthington, Ohio
On 12/28/10 7:36 PM, "David Finkelnburg" wrote:
> Doug,
> So-called spiral or ram's head kneading is great. However, I suggest =
you
> try slam "wedging" as advocated many times on this list by Michael Wendt.=
In
> my experience it's a very effective way to remove trapped air bubbles fro=
m
> the clay. The trick is to raise the clay up, but let gravity do most of t=
he
> work to bring it down. You'll find posts about it in the archives.
> Good potting,
> Dave Finkelnburg
> http://www.mattanddavesclays.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 27 Dec, Doug Trott wrote, in part:
> I have recycled in quantity once, using three old pillowcases. I combine=
d
> throwing slop with a bunch of bone-dry trimming, and let the pillowcases =
set
> on a concrete floor. I later did a first wedging, dumping the wet clay o=
n
> my table (canvas over cement backer-board), and then storing in plastic
> bags. I have found that it takes a tremendous amount of wedging to get t=
he
> air out, plus I still had some lumps. It seemed like a lot of work!
David Finkelnburg on tue 28 dec 10
Doug,
So-called spiral or ram's head kneading is great. However, I suggest yo=
u
try slam "wedging" as advocated many times on this list by Michael Wendt. I=
n
my experience it's a very effective way to remove trapped air bubbles from
the clay. The trick is to raise the clay up, but let gravity do most of the
work to bring it down. You'll find posts about it in the archives.
Good potting,
Dave Finkelnburg
http://www.mattanddavesclays.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Mon, 27 Dec, Doug Trott wrote, in part:
I have recycled in quantity once, using three old pillowcases. I combined
throwing slop with a bunch of bone-dry trimming, and let the pillowcases se=
t
on a concrete floor. I later did a first wedging, dumping the wet clay on
my table (canvas over cement backer-board), and then storing in plastic
bags. I have found that it takes a tremendous amount of wedging to get the
air out, plus I still had some lumps. It seemed like a lot of work!
Eric Hansen on wed 29 dec 10
Doug: see my blog site for more info on making clay
- h a n s e n -
--
Eric Alan Hansen
Stonehouse Studio Pottery
Alexandria, Virginia
americanpotter.blogspot.com
thesuddenschool.blogspot.com
hansencookbook.blogspot.com
"Simplify, simplify, simplify" - Thoreau
ivor and olive lewis on thu 30 dec 10
Dear Lynn Wheeler,
You tell us "...Once you try throwing with clay "wedged" the Michael Wendt
way, you won't go back. You get one million layers with just 20 cut/slams.
(1,048,576 to be exact.) I can wedge more clay at once, by a factor of 2 at
least, with half the effort and virtually no shoulder/back strain."
No argument about the benefits of preparing clay this way but I do worry
about the arithmetic conclusion. As an analogy to emphasise the power of th=
e
process it confirms the idea that a lot of work is being done on clay in a
very short time.
To my knowledge, clay prepared for or by potters is composed of fragments
that are grains, irregular in shape and aspect ratio as well as fragments
that are thin sheets. The size can also vary from particles that are
resolved by the naked eye, to those that can only be imaged with an electro=
n
microscope.
What has not been discussed or investigated is the idea that excessive work
done by this method may cause segregation of particles of differing sizes,
shapes and densities, with the potential for clay to delaminate on drying.
By the way. I call this "Sunderland Wedging", Sunderland being the place I
learned the technique more than four decades ago.
Sincere regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
Lee Love on thu 30 dec 10
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:58 AM, Eric Hansen
wrote:
> americanpotter.blogspot.com
I went there and saw tea bowls and one clay recipe. Nothing
about "making clay."
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
DJBrewer88 on thu 30 dec 10
What is the Michael Wendt wedging method? I've had inconsistent
internet for the last 10 day -- somehow I've missed that post.
thanks
DJ
On 12/30/2010 12:50 AM, ivor and olive lewis wrote:
> Dear Lynn Wheeler,
>
> You tell us "...Once you try throwing with clay "wedged" the Michael
> Wendt
> way, you won't go back. You get one million layers with just 20
> cut/slams.
> (1,048,576 to be exact.) I can wedge more clay at once, by a factor of
> 2 at
> least, with half the effort and virtually no shoulder/back strain."
>
>
>
> No argument about the benefits of preparing clay this way but I do worry
> about the arithmetic conclusion. As an analogy to emphasise the power
> of the
> process it confirms the idea that a lot of work is being done on clay
> in a
> very short time.
>
>
>
> To my knowledge, clay prepared for or by potters is composed of fragments
> that are grains, irregular in shape and aspect ratio as well as fragments
> that are thin sheets. The size can also vary from particles that are
> resolved by the naked eye, to those that can only be imaged with an
> electron
> microscope.
>
>
>
> What has not been discussed or investigated is the idea that excessive
> work
> done by this method may cause segregation of particles of differing
> sizes,
> shapes and densities, with the potential for clay to delaminate on
> drying.
>
>
>
> By the way. I call this "Sunderland Wedging", Sunderland being the
> place I
> learned the technique more than four decades ago.
>
> Sincere regards,
>
> Ivor Lewis,
> REDHILL,
> South Australia
>
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